Time to give up on Kerry and support our country

[hog]

It is time to reailize that Kerry had lost....the people of the U.S. voted and Bush won.....time to drop all the crap and support this country

[Emtmom]

We do hon, that doesn't mean we can't voice an opinion about the leadership.

[Chia6004]

I do, It doesn't change the fact that I don't like Bush, or his policies.

[scfire86]

We do hon, that doesn't mean we can't voice an opinion about the leadership.


Exactly. It's my country. Not my country right or wrong!

[hog]

We do hon, that doesn't mean we can't voice an opinion about the leadership.
everyone has a right to their opinion...(sometimes not in here)....but what i am getting at is that people are beating a dead horse.......the freaking election is over ....BUSH won ..........the people of this country spoke.....now it is time to support .....not cry and whine about how Kerry got screwed.....he didn`t ....he not only shouldn`t of been allowed to run for office he shouldn`t be allowed in this country......there now i voiced my opinion

[Emtmom]

everyone has a right to their opinion...(sometimes not in here)....but what i am getting at is that people are beating a dead horse.......the freaking election is over ....BUSH won ..........the people of this country spoke.....now it is time to support .....not cry and whine about how Kerry got screwed.....he didn`t ....he not only shouldn`t of been allowed to run for office he shouldn`t be allowed in this country......there now i voiced my opinionFeel better now hon? I have not once whined about the election. I simply stated we are stuck with who we are stuck with, let's move on.

[hog]

there are alot of people who whine about it ..............it is over .........time to give up and move on instead of trying to make crap up about how the traitor Kerry got screwed

[scfire86]

....he not only shouldn`t of been allowed to run for office he shouldn`t be allowed in this country......there now i voiced my opinion

I'm glad I live in a different country than yours.

An informed citizenry has not only the right, but an obligation to question its leadership.

[hog]

i live in the great UNITED STATES.........Kerry met with the enemy when our GI`s were getting killed.....screw that peice of shit.........you love Kerry so much let him move out to your state and you deal with him

[scfire86]

.you love Kerry so much let him move out to your state and you deal with him

You're probably stupid enough to think that's an insult. I'll take someone who volunteered to go to a warzone before someone who used his daddy's connections to stay home and collect DUI's like Blue Chip Stamps any time.

Now I'm dating myself.

[SmokeyAxe]

i live in the great UNITED STATES.........Kerry met with the enemy when our GI`s were getting killed.....screw that peice of shit.........you love Kerry so much let him move out to your state and you deal with him

He is from the state I used to call home! I liked him as a senator, and he can move to MD any time. I'll welcome him.

[No Fear]

So much for letting something die

[hog]

He is from the state I used to call home! I liked him as a senator, and he can move to MD any time. I'll welcome him.
welcome him until your taxes go through the roof....then don`t complain because you like him so

[scfire86]

He can come to CA anytime. And given how Arnold is staging a full frontal assault on public employees, especially firefighters and police officers. I'll take my chances with Kerry.

Send him here.

[Emtmom]

He can come to CA anytime. And given how Arnold is staging a full frontal assault on public employees, especially firefighters and police officers. I'll take my chances with Kerry.

Send him here.what the heck is Arnold trying to do to FF's and cops? Thought he wanted to get rid of the illegals.

[scfire86]

what the heck is Arnold trying to do to FF's and cops? Thought he wanted to get rid of the illegals.

Arnold has made pension reform for public employees (especially 3% @ 50 for public safety employees) a major plank in his platform to reform state govt.

If he is successful, only an idiot thinks he is going to stop there.

[scfire86]

welcome him until your taxes go through the roof....then don`t complain because you like him so

Yet another conservative urban legend. Better a tax and spend liberal than a borrow and spend conservative.

There is no plan by the GOP 'conservatives' to balance the budget and start paying off the debt.

[scfire86]

Sound familiar

George W. Bush: Commodus Reborn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editorial by Shane Cory
October 12, 2004

In 180 A.D., Rome faced one of its greatest challenges as Marcus Aurelius Commodus Antoninus (Commodus) succeeded his father in ruling the Empire . Due to his actions during a 12 year reign, he became arguably known as Rome's worst emperor.

Unlike his father who was thought to be kind and genuinely caring, Commodus was violent, short-tempered and thought to be literally insane.

Commodus' violent nature attracted him to death sports. He liked to play warrior, dressing up as either a Gladiator or Hercules in order to fight and kill opponents armed only with wooden defenses (while some say they were made of lead). Comparing himself to the hero Hercules, Commodus claimed to have killed thousands of men in combat.

In order to win the support of the people, Commodus gave large sums of money away to the masses on several occasions, demonstrating a complete lack of fiscally responsibility.

In protecting himself and his actions, the young emperor kept the Roman Senate and others at bay through the use of the Praetorian Guard, a special unit of men loyal not to Rome but to the emperor.

His foreign policy could only be described as erratic. Commodus created a peace treaty with Germanic tribes shortly after taking the throne yet waged war with the Germans regardless. He was also well known to take credit for partial victories in battle, requiring the Senate to Honor him for his accomplishments.

While he played Gladiator and demanded to be treated as a God, Commodus left the affairs of Rome up to corrupt men who pillaged the Empire, sharing their spoils of rule with their constantly vacationing emperor.

The similarities between a Commodus and our American president are striking for those willing to take an unbiased glance into the actions of the Bush administration.

In 2001, following the footsteps of his father, George W. Bush was sworn in as the 43rd President of the United States. In the opinion of many, he is well on his way in becoming one of the worst presidents in American history.

While Bush shares some of his father's traits such as his difficulty coherently speaking in public, he does contrast with his father's calm and affable nature by being known as short-tempered and highly emotional. Some would argue that due to his record of putting men and women to death as Texas Governor and at times mocking them, that George Bush is a violent man.

While spending a great amount of time on his Crawford ranch, Bush drives around in his pickup truck, slings chainsaws and generally plays cowboy while the media films his experiences. The president is also known for his infamous carrier landing when he unnecessarily dressed up as a fighter pilot in order to address the nation. It can be easily concluded that Bush enjoys his cowboy persona and the ability to play the warrior's role when given the chance.

Shortly after taking office, Bush enacted a retroactive tax break resulting in cash being given to the American masses. While this won the support of many people, a great deal of others questioned the fiscal responsibility of his actions. Throughout his term he continued to offer and propose further largesse despite the highest national debt in the history of the nation.

In protecting and defending his actions, Bush is cushioned by individuals who attack any political opponents who rise against the president while keeping the masses in check and on the side of their president. Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Ailes and others effectively serve as Bush's Praetorian Guard. Although the actions of the individuals above could place them in league with the later Praetorians who literally sold the emperor's seat to the highest bidder (material for a completely different column), they are at the moment committed to their president over the good of the country.

The foreign policy of George W. Bush, specifically what is now known as the Bush Doctrine, defies not only logic but also the history of the United States. The recent not-so-shocking revelation that Iraq possessed no weapons of mass destruction proved to the world that the Bush Doctrine is flawed. Despite the glaring mistake, the doctrine is still defended by the president and his Praetorians. Additionally, Bush is prone to claim partial victories such as his May 2003 speech in which he declared that, "In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." Bush also commonly states that "our nation and the world are safer" in stark contrast to the daily bombings and violence throughout the world.

Bush has admittedly surrounded himself with men and women of experience and power and obviously defers matters of the nation to their judgments. These individuals, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rove, etc., drive the agenda of the nation while some actively profit from the decisions they make as members of the Bush administration.

As Commodus had the ultimate power as emperor and could flagrantly mock and dismay the Roman government and his country, a difference only of subtlety remains between America's current president and one of Rome's worst emperors.

History does, from time to time, repeat itself without being evident until it is too late and a wrong is repeated. Thankfully, the American people can choose to end this recycling of history on November 2nd. Unfortunately, a great deal of damage has already been done that will reverberate for generations.

As part of Rome's recovery after the corrupt reign of Commodus, the Senate passed damnatio memoriae which is a damnation of memory. They Romans figuratively tossed all traces of Commodus into the memory hole. Just as Rome had to recover from the reign of Commodus, America must do the same in the coming years by rejecting forever the flawed doctrines, ruling arrogance and international ignorance of the Bush administration.

Shane Cory is the editor of the Washington Dispatch.

[hog]

Yet another conservative urban legend. Better a tax and spend liberal than a borrow and spend conservative.

There is no plan by the GOP 'conservatives' to balance the budget and start paying off the debt.
no it is a fact.......he wanted to give everyone the same medical as the government........please tell me who and how it would get paid for if taxes weren`t raised?

[staticx]

You people are still crying, guess what, he's in for another 4 years, get over it.

[hog]

You people are still crying, guess what, he's in for another 4 years, get over it.
that is why i started this thread ....Kerry lost and it is time to move on

[scfire86]

no it is a fact.......he wanted to give everyone the same medical as the government........please tell me who and how it would get paid for if taxes weren`t raised?

For starters, closing tax loopholes that allow people to avoid paying taxes. i.e. Off shore corporations in places like the Cayman Islands.

And then there might just be the scrutiny of pie in the sky weapons programs.

It's all a matter of priorities. You make it sound like universal health care is a bad thing.

[No Fear]

For starters, closing tax loopholes that allow people to avoid paying taxes. i.e. Off shore corporations in places like the Cayman Islands.

And then there might just be the scrutiny of pie in the sky weapons programs.

It's all a matter of priorities. You make it sound like universal health care is a bad thing.


As far as loopholes, there always going to be there, no matter who the president is. I hope we all agree with that. As far as the sky weapon, if thats one thing to help us protect this great country more power to them. The Patriot worked find in the Gulf War, if they can use the same tech to keep all those wackos from using their nukes on us, I am all for it. What's it going to hurt, and what do we have now to prevent a nuke attack, other than nuking them.

As far as health, hate to agree with SC, but the HMO and health companies we have today, is the worst I ever saw. I experienced awlful health care coverage from United Healthcare. So I believe it is time we have one health company that doesn't screw ya and cares more about you then the almighty dollar.

[scfire86]

As far as health, hate to agree with SC, but the HMO and health companies we have today, is the worst I ever saw. I experienced awlful health care coverage from United Healthcare. So I believe it is time we have one health company that doesn't screw ya and cares more about you then the almighty dollar.


Here's a joke file sent to me years ago that I kept. Sums up the attitudes of HMO's. I've had similar experiences.



Q; What does HMO stand for?
A. This is actually a variation of the phrase, "Hey, Moe" Its roots go
back to a concept pioneered by Doctor Moe Howard, who discovered that a
patient could be made to forget about the pain in his foot if he was poked
hard enough in the eyes. Modern practice replaces the physical finger poke
with hi-tech equivalents such as voice mail and referral slips, but the result remains
the same.

Q. Do all diagnostic procedures require pre-certification?
A. No. Only those you need.

Q. I just joined a new HMO. How difficult will it be to choose the doctor I want?
A. Just slightly more difficult than choosing your parents. Your insurer
will provide you with a book listing all the doctors who were participating
in the plan at the time the information was gathered. These doctors basically fall into two categories: those who are no longer accepting new patients, and those who will see you but are no longer part of the plan. But don't worry – the
remaining doctor who is still in the plan and accepting new patients has an office just a half day's drive away.

Q. What are pre-existing conditions?
A. This is a phrase used by the grammatically challenged when they want to
talk about existing conditions. Unfortunately, we appear to be pre-stuck
with it.

Q. Well, can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.

Q. What happens if I want to try alternative forms of medicine?
A. You'll need to find alternative forms of payment.

Q. My pharmacy plan only covers generic drugs, but I need the name brand. I
tried the generic medication, but it gave me a stomach ache. What should I
do?
A. Poke yourself in the eye.

Q. I have an 80/20 plan with a $200 deductible and a $2,000 yearly cap. My
insurer reimbursed the doctor for my out-patient surgery but I'd already paid my bill. What should I do?
A. You have two choices. Your doctor can sign the reimbursement check over
to you, or you can ask him to invest the money for you in one of those great
offers that only doctors and dentists hear about, like windmill farms or
frog hatcheries.

Q. What should I do if I get sick while traveling?
A. Try sitting in a different part of the bus.

Q. No, I mean what if I'm away from home and I get sick?
A. You really shouldn't do that. You'll have a hard time seeing your primary care physician. It's best to wait until you return, and then get sick.

Q. I think I need to see a specialist, but my doctor insists he can handle
my problem. Can a general practitioner really perform a heart transplant
right in his office?
A. Hard to say, but considering that all you're out is the $10 co-payment,
there's no harm giving him a shot at it.

[mohican]

maybe we can start something

How about GetOverIt.org? :D :p

[hog]

For starters, closing tax loopholes that allow people to avoid paying taxes. i.e. Off shore corporations in places like the Cayman Islands.

And then there might just be the scrutiny of pie in the sky weapons programs.

It's all a matter of priorities. You make it sound like universal health care is a bad thing.
i didn`t say it was a bad thing ....i asked how will we pay for it?........and as far as military you had better thank god that Kerry didn`t get in because the UN would run the war on terror........oh yea and don`t forget how corrupt the UN is......just got ask the French and Germans and Russians

[scfire86]

i didn`t say it was a bad thing ....i asked how will we pay for it?........and as far as military you had better thank god that Kerry didn`t get in because the UN would run the war on terror........oh yea and don`t forget how corrupt the UN is......just got ask the French and Germans and Russians


Here is what you really said:

Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!!

Wacko right wing urban legends, Wacko right wing conspiracy theory.

Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!!

[mohican]

I see SC is back from another pilgrimage to the Democratic Underground :D

[scfire86]

I see SC is back from another pilgrimage to the Democratic Underground :D

Given his or her's hyperbole, I would say Hog lives in the Republican Underground.

[Chia6004]

Here is what you really said:

Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!!

Wacko right wing urban legends, Wacko right wing conspiracy theory.

Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!!
LMFAO!!!!!!

[hog]

Here is what you really said:

Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!!

Wacko right wing urban legends, Wacko right wing conspiracy theory.

Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!! Blah!!
typical............answer the question or shush up

[No Fear]

Whole lot of crying here..... Democratic and Republican underground, now thats funny, I don't care who you are that's funny. And just remember gentlemen DICK GOES BETTER WITH BUSH.

[scfire86]

typical............answer the question or shush up

I already have.

[Chia6004]

"DICK GOES BETTER WITH BUSH"

Speak for yourself. :p

[No Fear]

Chia, looking at your past posts I can understand why you don't Like BUSH. :eek:

[mohican]

So I believe it is time we have one health company ....

Hmm
no competition
now that will improve the health care situation
NOT!!!!

[STEALTH MODE]

Hmm
no competition
now that will improve the health care situation
NOT!!!!

I agree! Example: Where I live - we have ONE power company and ONE phone company (landline) - and they may as well carry guns and wear ski masks - they ROB ME BLIND - NO competition = HIGH prices... Can't imagine what ONE healthcare company would do to the cost of healthcare - I already pay enough!!

Amen PFD!

[No Fear]

Hmm
no competition
now that will improve the health care situation
NOT!!!!

Got any other ideas PF, on straightening out the health care system, I'm all ears. The current competition really not doing a great job except for dipping into pockets or unless you are selling health care. Either way, and I don't care which, something needs to be done. Never heard of this shit years ago, did we.

[mohican]

Got any other ideas PF, on straightening out the health care system, I'm all ears. The current competition really not doing a great job except for dipping into pockets or unless you are selling health care. Either way, and I don't care which, something needs to be done. Never heard of this shit years ago, did we.

1. Tort reform needed badly - you want to control health care cost, you want doctors to stay in private practice? Stop voting ambulance chasers ala JohnBoy Deadwards.
2. If you think that the government can efficiently run health care, then you had better look at other social engineering that has failed or will fail. Welfare, Social Security, Government Housing Programs, affirmative action.
3. When I was a kid, both my parents had good jobs. The benefits they had were on par with about anything out there. But things like doctors visits, prescriptions, etc were paid for out of pocket. Back then, you couldn't afford to be a hypochondriac. You had dental, vision, and major medical, but you took care of the routine things yourself. From the viewpoint of an insurance company, medical coverage used to be an actuarial gamble, like car insurance. What they had to pay for had lesser occurance.
4. (related to #3) health care was not listed as one of the inalienable rights. If you are in EMS, you should know that your squad or the ER cant refuse service based on whether or not the patient can pay. With many basically indigant people using the ER as a general clinic, the hospitals have to pass on the cost somewhere. If people want to control health care cost, they need to get rid of the entitlement mentality.
5. The two edged sword of modern medicine. People are living longer, which means more years of needed health cost. 40-60 years ago, a lot of kids with allergies, asthma, diabetes, etc would not have made it to adulthood.
6. Hospitals and clinics, especially in the border areas, are getting hit hard with services to the illegal imigrant population. How about detaining them until they work off their bill, then kicking them out of the country? Sound hard? Maybe, but if I want to help people, I'll volunteer it. Don't mandate it.

In sum: Health care is like any other industry in that it is driven by supply and demand. With fewer Doctors, and more regulated services, and more patients, the supply is decreasing while the demand goes up.

Let me clue you in: Doctors can be independent, ornery cusses. If Uncle Sugar were to assume total control of health care, many more would move out of private practice.

[Incident]

Stealth Mode - Good post. To add: Maybe we can get a few of the Russian diplomats over here to help us out - it's called socialism!! And look at how well it's working over there!!! What's the exchange rate now, 3000 rubles to one U.S.Dollar?

SCfire: I love the article!! I was trying to think a few nice things, and only label him as mediocre, but that just reinfoced the negativity.

Hog - You're telling us to stop whining, but I am seeing a lot of defensiveness. Sure, we hoped that there would be a change, but there was not. As you said, the people have spoken. And in three years, 11 months and a bunch of days, it will be over. We'll live with it, because we have to!! Just because a Republican runs the White House, and that the majority of Congress is REpublican does not mean that the Democrats are going to run home and hide....

Regardless of affiliation, EVERYONE has the right to do what is in the best interest of the people. We just go about it different ways. It's called respect...

[Emtmom]

I agree! Example: Where I live - we have ONE power company and ONE phone company (landline) - and they may as well carry guns and wear ski masks - they ROB ME BLIND - NO competition = HIGH prices... Can't imagine what ONE healthcare company would do to the cost of healthcare - I already pay enough!!

Amen PFD!We have 2 electric companies here, and have the right and opportunity to choose from others ourside our state. Here in lies the problem, the companies already here own the lines, they will let another company use their lines, for a price. Which, you guessed it, makes it cheaper to stay with them then to change.

4. (related to #3) health care was not listed as one of the inalienable rights. If you are in EMS, you should know that your squad or the ER cant refuse service based on whether or not the patient can pay. With many basically indigant people using the ER as a general clinic, the hospitals have to pass on the cost somewhere. If people want to control health care cost, they need to get rid of the entitlement mentality.
So are you saying that if my job doesn't offer medical and I make a little too much to get some kind of medical ins. help, that when I or my kids get sick the hospital should be allowed to not treat us, unless I am standing at their door with $1,000.00? Have you taken into consideration that MAYBE the hospitals should reconsider some of their costs also?
Does it really cost 2,000.00 to do one c-scan????? I had a c-scan done of my sinuses and the bill was 1,800.00. That test took less than 5 minutes to do! Thankfully I do have insurance!
Did you know that when you are brought in by ambulance that the hospital puts that blanket, sheets and pillow on your bill, even though 9 times out of 10 it is laundered, sanitized and used again! Or at least the ones here do, because I have sat and filled out the paper work for it!
Does it really cost the hospital $5.00 to give you an advil??????????? YEP, that's right they are $5.00 a piece!!
Maybe we should be taking a look at Canada, and some other countries that have health care for everyone. They seem to be able to make it work there, and in England.
Not everyone makes good money and can afford health insurance.
MAYBE before we go sending BILLIONS to other countries for anything THIS GOVT. SHOULD TAKE CARE OF IT'S OWN!

pushing my soap box back under my chair now.

[hog]

I already have.
you most certainly have not....like i said typical......all bullshit no answer

[mohican]

EMTMOM: What I said about the illegal alien/indigent population was half in jest. But having said that, I think people need to take responsibility for themselves. When I got out of college, and started as a vollie firefighter, I injured a knee in karate. A couple days later, while fighting fire at a train derailment, I completely blew that knee out. I had surgery, went back to work the next week, and got laid off about a month later. The company I was working for screwed me on the surgery. Guess what, I still paid the hospital. I went in, talked to their people in finance, and set up a payment schedule. I took responsibility for my debt.

On the other hand, I know what you are saying about things seeming overpriced.

$5.00 for advil? Yeah I know they buy it in bulk, and they pay only a nickel. Look at it this way, where we work, we have a minimum order price for over the phone spare parts. The $5.00 for advil might have come from a cost breakdown for the nurses time. Just like if someone orders a 5 dollar gasket, it really does take $30.00 to process the order.

I don't want a government health care system. Canada's isn't all it's cracked up to be. I have some canadian friends that have been in the "queque" for health care because it isn't life or death. If you think things are screwed up now, you haven't seen them screwed up by some petty beaurocrat.

[BCFD in Philly]

Maybe we should be taking a look at Canada, and some other countries that have health care for everyone. They seem to be able to make it work there, and in England.
Not everyone makes good money and can afford health insurance.
MAYBE before we go sending BILLIONS to other countries for anything THIS GOVT. SHOULD TAKE CARE OF IT'S OWN!

pushing my soap box back under my chair now.

Good, have a seat and listen up!

THE WORLDWIDE FAILURE OF NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE

According to Michael Walker of Canada's prestigious Fraser Institute, the claimed administrative cost-savings in Canada are an illusion: "The Canadian system controls costs not through efficiency, but by rationing health-care delivery."

Long waiting lists and chronic shortages of equipment and services have resulted in waits of up to 4 years for elective surgery. The delay for coronary bypass surgery is now nearly 6 months. Overall, there are now 250,000 Canadians on waiting lists for government-approved operations - and 45% say they are in pain.

Britain's National Health Service also "controls" costs by rationing care. According to the National Center for Policy Analysis, over 1 million Britons are now on waiting lists for operations. For those over 65, nearly half of government hospitals refuse to provide kidney dialysis. Over 9,000 elderly people a year die because they're denied dialysis.

In every country with government-run medicine, the elderly and severely ill are treated like a drain on society and given the minimum possible care. In Sweden, "the delay for coronary bypass operations is more than a year, during which time 30% of the patients will die." In Italy many people now die because of a shortage of beds in government hospitals. In Germany, "free" government medicine is used only as a "last resort."

Still have your reservation for one of these "cradle to grave" health care meccas? The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

With Dan Rather's disgraced "retirement" maybe a little more of the truth will get through to the American public - do your own research and don't rely of the agenda driven main-stream news media!

[Emtmom]

Good, have a seat and listen up!

THE WORLDWIDE FAILURE OF NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE

According to Michael Walker of Canada's prestigious Fraser Institute, the claimed administrative cost-savings in Canada are an illusion: "The Canadian system controls costs not through efficiency, but by rationing health-care delivery."

Long waiting lists and chronic shortages of equipment and services have resulted in waits of up to 4 years for elective surgery. The delay for coronary bypass surgery is now nearly 6 months. Overall, there are now 250,000 Canadians on waiting lists for government-approved operations - and 45% say they are in pain.

Britain's National Health Service also "controls" costs by rationing care. According to the National Center for Policy Analysis, over 1 million Britons are now on waiting lists for operations. For those over 65, nearly half of government hospitals refuse to provide kidney dialysis. Over 9,000 elderly people a year die because they're denied dialysis.

In every country with government-run medicine, the elderly and severely ill are treated like a drain on society and given the minimum possible care. In Sweden, "the delay for coronary bypass operations is more than a year, during which time 30% of the patients will die." In Italy many people now die because of a shortage of beds in government hospitals. In Germany, "free" government medicine is used only as a "last resort."

Still have your reservation for one of these "cradle to grave" health care meccas? The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

With Dan Rather's disgraced "retirement" maybe a little more of the truth will get through to the American public - do your own research and don't rely of the agenda driven main-stream news media!
OK, well then maybe not! Thanks for the info BCFD!