Wanna Be Firemen

[Irons58]

I just had to come here and write what was said to me the other day. Before I begin I am a new member to the watchdesk and this is my first post. I am a volly firefighter just outside of chattanooga tn. I have been in the fire service since 98 and like the rest of you I love it. Well at my job the other day I was told the volunteer firefighters are nothing more than a bunch of wanna be's, i got pissed and almost went and comfronted him phyiscally but kept my calm, Im not trying to say I am a big guy who can whip anyones ass but I will put up a fight. I couldnt believe this little college punk said that, I told him, yea how i it we are wanna be's when over 50% of Firefighters in America are volly's? He said thats highly doughtful......Well like I said before he is a little college punk and in a fraternity, nothing against them, but I knew it would offend him if I put it down, So when I mentioned something about his fraternity I called it a sorority instead, needless to say he was red hot, but didnt say anything back. But I fought fire with fire and won the battle as I see it. Sorry this is long but i had to get it off my chest. Everyone be safe out there. Chadd

[allpro]

That was your third post.

[STEALTH MODE]

That was your third post.

Now THAT was funny! Thanks...

[mohican]

1. Actually, Vollie's account for over 80% of the fire service

2. If you are actually thinking about a fight because a frat boy called you a firefire wannabe, then perhaps you don't have the temperment to be in the fire service........wait until about 3 in the morning when some homeowner is in your grill berating you because you are setting up venting instead of bursting through the doors...... :eek: :rolleyes:

3. And yes, this is kinda funny :D :p

[ofd226]

get a LIFE.... either be secure in what you are or become what you want....either way....do SOMETHING

[hog]

yea tell the prick off and then let it die

[STEALTH MODE]

That was your third post.

Ok, just going to say it ONE more time - that was FUNNY!!

[STEALTH MODE]

3. And yes, this is kinda funny :D :p


Ok, now I'm really laughing... this is what I see: blah, blah, blah AND THAT WAS FUNNY... Whew, you guys are killing me! Thanks for the laugh...

[GhostRider]

I think you need to grow some thicker skin. Let me see if I got this right. A "college boy" said that you were a wanna be fire fighter. I take it that this "college boy" is not in the fire department.
OK first the "college boy" is a citizen and you should in now way confront him in a physical manner. Second if you think that is hard try comming to PG county where you could get into a fight with a paid fire fighter that gets worst then that.
SO I guess what I'm saying is to grow a little bit thicker skin and just pay no mind to the "college boy".

[Chia6004]

And some vollies wonder why career firefighters look down on them. Yes I was a volie key word "was" technically a PCF but still.

[Irons58]

Well What do I say....Thanks for the Comments? I just came here to get this off my chest, I have thick skin, I didnt comfront him phyiscally, and I did let it die from there, nothing else been said about it. And believe me I know how the paid and vollie thing is, guys at the city here the majority of them are not vollies, the dont believe in vollies think volliues are a joke. Damn just cause someone is a paid ff, they think they have better gear or the fire burns hotter, let me tell ya chia pet you are not any more qualified than the vollie standing next too you, remember qualified is not the certificates and shit on your wall, but the performance you can do on the fireground. To everyone else that posted thanks, and it is dead, just came here to do what the forum says....get it off your chest.

[mohican]

Well, only a few turned it into a paid vs volly thing

And, being here on the volly side of the fence, I was the first to recommend a thicker skin

A volunteer force depends on public good will as much or more than the paid staff. Much of the extra "helping hands" and new blood come from the community. Vollies making an ass of themselves in public tend to scare off the new recruits. If a strangers opinion bothers yourself so much you may be in it for the wrong reasons. Evaluate what you do and why. At that point the barbs of the uninformed are insignificant.

[Vollies Suck]

I just had to come here and write what was said to me the other day. Before I begin I am a new member to the watchdesk and this is my first post. I am a volly firefighter just outside of chattanooga tn. I have been in the fire service since 98 and like the rest of you I love it. Well at my job the other day I was told the volunteer firefighters are nothing more than a bunch of wanna be's, i got pissed and almost went and comfronted him phyiscally but kept my calm, Im not trying to say I am a big guy who can whip anyones ass but I will put up a fight. I couldnt believe this little college punk said that, I told him, yea how i it we are wanna be's when over 50% of Firefighters in America are volly's? He said thats highly doughtful......Well like I said before he is a little college punk and in a fraternity, nothing against them, but I knew it would offend him if I put it down, So when I mentioned something about his fraternity I called it a sorority instead, needless to say he was red hot, but didnt say anything back. But I fought fire with fire and won the battle as I see it. Sorry this is long but i had to get it off my chest. Everyone be safe out there. Chadd

Well, for starters, while it is a fact that most US fire departments are volunteer outfits, what you conveniently forget is that most US citizens are protected by career firefighters. (That's because vollies are found mainly in sparsely populated rural areas.)

Secondly, I hate to tell you this, dude, but most career firefighters I know, and many civilians as well, do look at you and other vollies as "wanna be firemen". As I've pointed out in my many posts, we do not entrust any other vital public safety service to people who do it for free in their spare time, and who might or might not be there when needed. There is something basically weird about that whole concept.

Thirdly, it's not okay for him to stereotype you because you are a vollie, but you come on here and call him a "little college punk" and call his frat a "sorority"? Something about a pot and kettle comes to mind here.

Finally, if you think you won this argument because you matched him insult for insult, I'd say you have a lot of growing up to do.

[Vollies Suck]

yea tell the prick off and then let it die

Yeah, listen to hog, that's the way to go!

[STEALTH MODE]

Yeah, listen to hog, that's the way to go!

HA Vollies - NO offense to HOG, but I don't think I've ever seen ANYone say that... Guess there is a first time for everything!

[No Fear]

Another Hog and VS story. Now that's entertainment

[hog]

Another Hog and VS story. Now that's entertainment
i am so glad that you enjoy it

[RuralFire]

Well, for starters, while it is a fact that most US fire departments are volunteer outfits, what you conveniently forget is that most US citizens are protected by career firefighters. (That's because vollies are found mainly in sparsely populated rural areas.)

Secondly, I hate to tell you this, dude, but most career firefighters I know, and many civilians as well, do look at you and other vollies as "wanna be firemen". As I've pointed out in my many posts, we do not entrust any other vital public safety service to people who do it for free in their spare time, and who might or might not be there when needed. There is something basically weird about that whole concept.


VS, I think you've made your biases pretty clear over your lifetime on these boards: You are, unfortunately, living in an area served by a rather bad group of vollies and this has tainted your view on them all.

Unfortunately, this has the effect of suggesting that you are incapable of recognizing your own bias, but I suppose that's neither here nor there.

Basically, someone else said it best in another post:

Most of us vollies probably couldn't hold a candle to you in a high-rise fire - I tip my hat to you and your fellow city FF's for what must be an amazingly intense job like that.

By the same token, I highly doubt you'd be keeping up with us on a sixteen hour barn fire, working with an excavator bucket reaching over your head to pull two-ton bales of hay down and apart so you can extinguish the interior - Or on a 300 acre hayfield fire *right* before baling and after four days of ++25 celcius weather.

You say "most career firefighters I know, and many civilians as well, do look at you and other vollies as "wanna be firemen".", but really, what does that say ? You certainly don't talk to - and definitely don't represent - a majority, or even a fraction of - all full time FF's in North America - Ironically enough, most full time FF's that *I've* met have not only been appreciative of vollies, but have asked us in to train with them in order that they can get experience on rural fire fighting. It's quite a different story on scene when the nearest hydrant is over 300 kilometers away.

Luckily, most of us tend to look on old-timers like you with a shake of the head and a rolling of the eyes. "Yes, yes, gramps, we know you remember the days when you fought fires in your t-shirts and a full bladder" - You can piss and moan and sit on your high horse all you want about how you don't consider vollies as your brothers, but it doesn't change the fact that you're just a bitter, biased firefighter-in-name who has no concept of the meaning of being a public servant. (I'll leave it up to you as an excercise to figure out the irony in that)

[mohican]

... As I've pointed out in my many posts, we do not entrust any other vital public safety service to people who do it for free in their spare time, and who might or might not be there when needed. There is something basically weird about that whole concept.....


And when "professional" department has cut staffing, who gets called on mutual aid? Yup, the vollies :D

you must have some inner canker in your soul to devote your time on this board to bashing vollies, even to the point of a negative moniker

I would even guess that you created an alternate screen presense to pretend to be a hapless volunteer so you could bash away.

Like others, If true, I admire your ability to fight a high rise fire. On the other hand, as Rural fire so eloquantly put it, if you had to step into our shoes, you might be lost. Getting a 300 lb fat women out of a house is challenging, but so is getting a 1000 lb horse or a 2000 lb cow out of a barn.

Rural economics often predicates a volunteer service. People that are born and raised in a rural setting acknowledge it, and deal with it. (But we offer excellent service for our area)

most of the vollie bashing I see is done by younger people, who think they have to project an image. After maturing, they usually change their minds.

[Chia6004]

Some of it is also well deserved. Time and time again on large incidents I see volies go down before career. In fact the last career FF i saw go down was last June and that was because a boulder hit him. However on that same incident two vollies went down as a result of being out of shape, the incident was 3k acres fire in 109 degree temp.

Cali is a much different place then most other states Southern California has to be one of the few places in the union where career Fire Depts outnumber vollie depts and then most of those are just to augment career depts. In so cal are paid depts are far superior to vollie depts, not saying all vollies are bad but alot have no business on a fire engine, I hate hand holding.

[Fatmaninlilcoat]

Just food for thought.
I believe the second busiest engine paid or volunteer in the country is/was a volunteer engine.
Kentland Volunteer Fire Company, Prince George's County, Maryland.
Go see for yourself at www.kentland33.com

To vollies suck thanks for the information I did not know that most volunteers covered sparsely populated areas. :rolleyes: I guess p.g. county is boondocks? One more question am i to assume that you are a paid fireman why the resentment? How many times did a volunteer beat you out for a paid job? :D

[BCFD in Philly]

Originally Posted by Vollies Suck
... As I've pointed out in my many posts, we do not entrust any other vital public safety service to people who do it for free in their spare time, and who might or might not be there when needed. There is something basically weird about that whole concept.....

Your response to VS:

And when "professional" department has cut staffing, who gets called on mutual aid? Yup, the vollies :D

you must have some inner canker in your soul to devote your time on this board to bashing vollies, even to the point of a negative moniker

I would even guess that you created an alternate screen presense to pretend to be a hapless volunteer so you could bash away.

Like others, If true, I admire your ability to fight a high rise fire. On the other hand, as Rural fire so eloquantly put it, if you had to step into our shoes, you might be lost. Getting a 300 lb fat women out of a house is challenging, but so is getting a 1000 lb horse or a 2000 lb cow out of a barn.

Rural economics often predicates a volunteer service. People that are born and raised in a rural setting acknowledge it, and deal with it. (But we offer excellent service for our area)

most of the vollie bashing I see is done by younger people, who think they have to project an image. After maturing, they usually change their minds.

Please explain how your response is related to the statement made by VS. I do not see any bashing of volunteers in his post. Thank you.

[hog]

this really sucks......all of us should stick together ........what will we do?

[Tk_3_Barman]

Originally posted by RuralFire

VS, I think you've made your biases pretty clear over your lifetime on these boards: You are, unfortunately, living in an area served by a rather bad group of vollies and this has tainted your view on them all.


Well as a "Vollie" in PG,unless youhave ridin a call with me or seen me work, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! :mad:

Don't judge me by what other people talk about. You just did what you said pissed you off. Stereotyping.

There are a lot of great vollies in PG. There are a lot of assholes too. Same with the career. Don't lump everyone together.

By the way.......we fight the same highrise fires as they do. We are not all untrained idiots like people like to portray. Some of us ( and I know this will start shit ) have the same training as "The career guy's". Because, guess what.......We are career some where else.

Think before you speak.

By the way.......Why would you EVER stand under anything being raised by a crane......on fire........For ANY reason? Once again.......your working against yourself! :cool:

[Fatmaninlilcoat]

To elaborate a little further I started in the fire service 11 years ago and have been involved with multiple departments at both the volunteer and career levels. I started out as a volly like most firemen and have been on the job for seven years, currently I volunteer for a rescue squad (ambulance corp). Both jobs are the same but different. I think there are valuable members as well as dead weight in the fire/ems service regardless of paid or volly. It is unfair to over 750,000 volunteers in this country to treat them based on a handful. I never said kentland was bad or good they are just an example of dedicated firemen doing it for free. This is not a bash or a request to be dragged into the fight just maybe a tool to help you people open your eyes. But if you are feeling froggy..........jump

Firefighter is a job title, fireman is what you are.
not everyone is a fireman

[Hopewell]

Just food for thought.
I believe the second busiest engine paid or volunteer in the country is/was a volunteer engine.
Kentland Volunteer Fire Company, Prince George's County, Maryland.
Go see for yourself at www.kentland33.comI may be mistaken, but I believe that Kentland includes the total number of responses from every piece in their station to say that they are the 2nd busiest engine company in the nation. Kentland is very busy and sees a lot of fire, but to me a company, be it engine, truck, or rescue, is one piece of apparatus and the people assigned to it. If the above is true, to use an entire station's worth of responses to say your engine company is one of the nation's busiest is misleading.

[Fatmaninlilcoat]

I may be wrong that is why I said I believe. I have seen them at the top of the list for volunteer station response in Firehouse Magazine's Annual Run Survey. My comment and link was to serve only as a possible eye opener. P.G. county is not a sparsely populated area and this company gets out.

[Fire Walker]

OK...Here's my spin on this. 27 years ago i entered the fire service through the encouragement of a very good friend, he happened to be a career firefighter with the department he wanted me to become a volunteer with. I was a vollie for almost 6 years & went career. Since that time i've enjoyed a lot of good times & fires, rescues, & EMS calls with my departments vollies. They've stood shoulder to shoulder with me under extremely harsh elements but never faultered to do the job. My own son is now in my department as a vollie & i'm damn proud of him. He's one of the top responders within the department & many men & women, be they vollunteer or career, trust his abilities & judgement. We're a combination department & for the most part, get along quite well. There's no painted lines on our floors determining what apparatus is career or volunteer. There's no pulling a vollie off the wagon just because i was there & wanted to go on the call. To be honest with you, how can you say that vollies aren't professional when they take the very same classes as career people do & if you check the grades of the tests, probably do as well if not better. Simply saying that doing a job cause you do it for a living makes you a professional is totally stupid. Professionalism comes from doing the job right, with dignity, pride of your work, committment to your department, fellow firefighters, & the citizens you're protecting. Next time you're at a fire, check by simply looking at the gear the men & women are wearing, see if by looking alone, it determines if you're a vollie or career, it doesn't in mine, we wear the same stuff. Thanks for letting me speak my mind.

[RuralFire]

Originally posted by RuralFire

VS, I think you've made your biases pretty clear over your lifetime on these boards: You are, unfortunately, living in an area served by a rather bad group of vollies and this has tainted your view on them all.

Well as a "Vollie" in PG,unless you have ridin a call with me or seen me work, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! :mad:

Don't judge me by what other people talk about. You just did what you said pissed you off. Stereotyping.

There are a lot of great vollies in PG. There are a lot of assholes too. Same with the career. Don't lump everyone together.

By the way.......we fight the same highrise fires as they do. We are not all untrained idiots like people like to portray. Some of us ( and I know this will start shit ) have the same training as "The career guy's". Because, guess what.......We are career some where else.

Think before you speak.

By the way.......Why would you EVER stand under anything being raised by a crane......on fire........For ANY reason? Once again.......your working against yourself! :cool:

Tk_3_Barman: I apologize for the stereotyping and generalizations - You're right and I'm wrong. It just goes to show what having a bad apple in the profession like this 'vollies suck' can do to attitudes. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he's been burdened by bad experiences, but frankly, life shows that the loudest whiner on an anonymous board is usually the loudest whiner in real life, too.

Again, I apologize to you and those in your department/area for making, frankly, a dumb-assed comment.

As for your last point: We weren't working under a crane lifting anything over our heads :)

It was an excavator reaching over us to pull bales off the stack and smash them apart so we could get water into the burning material. I don't care how good an operator is - I wouldn't be working under *any* suspended, burning material being lifted/moved by an excavator :)

[geobart]

Secondly, I hate to tell you this, dude, but most career firefighters I know, and many civilians as well, do look at you and other vollies as "wanna be firemen". As I've pointed out in my many posts, we do not entrust any other vital public safety service to people who do it for free in their spare time, and who might or might not be there when needed. There is something basically weird about that whole concept.

I'm just curious VS, how does a "paycheck" make you a better fireman? I would think that training, ability and common sense would be more important qualities in determining the "worth" of a firefighter (or any other occupation for that matter.)

I have read your many posts through the years. You keep repeating the same old battle cry that your name implies - "Volly's Suck!" But you never, ever, seem to back it up with hard facts. Oh you quote "many in the career services and the general public" think this and think that. But you have NO HARD DATA to back your claims.

I'm sure we all realize that there are good career firefighters and not so good career firefighters. The same goes with volunteers. Do you propose that there are somehow more "bad" firefighters on the volunteer side of the "firefighting ledger?"

And as far as your "basically weird" comment? This country was founded by people who volunteered their lives, their fortunes and their futures. The Minutemen in the Revolutionary War come to mind. I guess using your analogy, they were no good either. I mean they were volunteers, entrusted with a vital public service, and I guess they might not show up either. But its funny how history didn't paint them that way. In fact, one might even think that volunteerism is an American tradition.

Perhaps instead of trying to demean those who post here, you should try another approach. If your "true" purpose is to better the fire service with your "thought provoking" posts, you are losing the battle.

[STEALTH MODE]

I'm just curious VS, how does a "paycheck" make you a better fireman? I would think that training, ability and common sense would be more important qualities in determining the "worth" of a firefighter (or any other occupation for that matter.)



Ok, I'm not going to get into the back and forth of it all - but can I just say - bottom line...

IF my house is on fire - my family inside - PLEASE someone, ANYONE (PAID OR VOLLIES) come save my family!

I PROMISE you now, all of you - while you are carrying myself or a member of my family out the front door, while you are keeping me protected from breathing any smoke, or even while you are throwing yourself in front of a fire so that I do not get burnt or hurt - I will NOT ask you if you receive a paycheck for saving my life - AND - I will NOT tell you that if you are a volunteer, to please run out and get me a PAID person in here to save me...

What I WILL do - when you put me down outside, and I am safe - I will THANK YOU for saving my life and keeping me safe!

I know a lot of firemen - paid and volunteer - I'll take either EQUALLY! Thanks guys!

[burning85]

*applause* great post!!!!

[geobart]

*applause* great post!!!!

Ditto! Well said!

[kep.ctc]

Ok, I'm not going to get into the back and forth of it all - but can I just say - bottom line...

IF my house is on fire - my family inside - PLEASE someone, ANYONE (PAID OR VOLLIES) come save my family!

I PROMISE you now, all of you - while you are carrying myself or a member of my family out the front door, while you are keeping me protected from breathing any smoke, or even while you are throwing yourself in front of a fire so that I do not get burnt or hurt - I will NOT ask you if you receive a paycheck for saving my life - AND - I will NOT tell you that if you are a volunteer, to please run out and get me a PAID person in here to save me...

What I WILL do - when you put me down outside, and I am safe - I will THANK YOU for saving my life and keeping me safe!

I know a lot of firemen - paid and volunteer - I'll take either EQUALLY! Thanks guys!


WELL SAID STEALTH.

[STEALTH MODE]

Thanks - I agree! :D

[Smell My Coat !]

Ok, I cannot pass this up. First let me say this. I have been with the fire service for 36 years. My mother and father, BOTH sets of grandparents were charter members. My mother's father was the charter chief then years later my father. My brother and wife also put in time. So have several cousins and other close family. Together my immediate family has put in more than 400 years of service and God only knows how many calls, training hours etc. But, NOBODY in my family has ever been paid or had a paid job. We are very proud people and very proud of our fire service heritage. So, I take an extreme ammount of offense to this vollies suck thing.

Now, to Stealth Mode... I was thinking something very similar to what you said. Which, by the way, gave me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside we speak of time to time. Thank you for saying what every volunteer would. I was also thinking that if this guy were in need of help, I pray to God it were in my district and I were first to arrive. Yup, the first chance he got, he would be saying the same damn thing he did yesterday...vollies suck. But, he'll get that chance because a vollie saved his ass! :D

[Smell My Coat !]

I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't give three terds and a squirt, If I need a firetruck or a meat wagon, the last thing on my mind would be what color it is, where it came from or who's name is on the door. And certainly not if the crew gets paid for the run! When I have a bar-b-que, EVERYBODY'S INVITED!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hopewell]

Ok, I cannot pass this up. First let me say this. I have been with the fire service for 36 years. My mother and father, BOTH sets of grandparents were charter members. My mother's father was the charter chief then years later my father. My brother and wife also put in time. So have several cousins and other close family. Together my immediate family has put in more than 400 years of service and God only knows how many calls, training hours etc. But, NOBODY in my family has ever been paid or had a paid job. We are very proud people and very proud of our fire service heritage. So, I take an extreme ammount of offense to this vollies suck thing.
Smell My Coat,

Don't know how many of his posts you've read, but I'd wager to say that as a volunteer never having seen life from the career perspective, you're basing your opinion only on a few of his posts and a sour reaction to his screen name.

I'm not here to defend VS, he does just fine on his own. However, his arguments consistently tend to gravitate toward the dependability of adequately trained personnel to respond to an emergency where he lives, and apparently wherever that is, the fire and EMS service is unreliable to say the least. He has presented evidence to prove it.

His beef is not with the dedication of volunteers, but with the volunteer system as a whole that relies on service that may or may not be timely, and may or may not be fully staffed with trained personnel. He also stipulates that not all jurisdictions, particularly rural ones, have the need or ability to provide paid emergency services.

Does that clear up anything for you? You may still be offended and want to verbally spar with him... just know where he's coming from. Good luck and be safe. :)

[mohican]

Hopewell,

Now that's just too reasonable :D

[shenanigans]

Ok, just going to say it ONE more time - that was FUNNY!!



AHAHAHAHAHAAH, I'm still pissin myself here..... :D :D :D

[STEALTH MODE]

AHAHAHAHAHAAH, I'm still pissin myself here..... :D :D :D


Ha Shenanigans! Why you gots to bring that up again - Now I too am laughing all over again...! :D

it was funny...

[geobart]

Smell My Coat,

Don't know how many of his posts you've read, but I'd wager to say that as a volunteer never having seen life from the career perspective, you're basing your opinion only on a few of his posts and a sour reaction to his screen name.

I'm not here to defend VS, he does just fine on his own. However, his arguments consistently tend to gravitate toward the dependability of adequately trained personnel to respond to an emergency where he lives, and apparently wherever that is, the fire and EMS service is unreliable to say the least. He has presented evidence to prove it.

His beef is not with the dedication of volunteers, but with the volunteer system as a whole that relies on service that may or may not be timely, and may or may not be fully staffed with trained personnel. He also stipulates that not all jurisdictions, particularly rural ones, have the need or ability to provide paid emergency services.

Does that clear up anything for you? You may still be offended and want to verbally spar with him... just know where he's coming from. Good luck and be safe. :)


Hopewell,

I respectfully beg to differ. I've read plenty of his (VollieSucks) posts and they all lack the basic facts to back up what he says. He's got plenty of ideas, but no facts to back it up. His only goal is to provoke an emotional (often angry) response. He offends and takes delight in it. He totally discounts any training volunteers have simply because they are volunteers.

He's even gone so far as to label the idea of volunteerism as "weird." His comments tend to stereotype volunteers and paid alike. Not exactly the stuff good debate is made of.

Have a good day.

[tower11]

cadets & riding

why can't the oldest cadets go on "ride alongs" and that you can't ride on a call until you are 16 yld.And the you can't give

please reply

[STEALTH MODE]

cadets & riding

why can't the oldest cadets go on "ride alongs" and that you can't ride on a call until you are 16 yld.And the you can't give

please reply


Ok - can't understand what ya wrote there Tower - doesn't really make a whole lot of sense - looks familiar though... :D

[Mags]

VollieSSuck,
Hey its been a while, glad to see you've apparently gone away from your childish ways of the past. :D (seriously)

As I have stated before and those of you from Allegheny County know, here in Glassport we work side by side with McKeesport Fire Dept. a paid service IAFF Local 1. We ahve never ever had the problems some of you speak of, maybe its just different here I don't know, those guys over there rely and trust us everytime they call us thats why we're one of the very few VFD's that get called into the city for mutual aid. And anyone of those guys will tell you that vollies are capable of hanging with the career guys, maybe not all vollies but not all career guys either, I've seen some pretty crappy performances by career and vollies alike on the fire ground. If your heart is in it and you're well trained and educated you can do the job and do it well whether you get a paycheck or not becomes irrelevant.