How about that President....

[iaff4me]

Well, after all the rhetoric Bush did what some of you wanted going to cut funding for the FIRE ACT. Did you read todays paper? He is after your 401/457 (whatever you may have) retirement plan. Hope you enjoyed it. Fiscal responsiblity is what he says, after wasting the biggest surplus in US history for tax cuts for the richest. Think on that one. Crying no, saying I told you so yes. IAFF

[Chia6004]

Hey atleast we got those WMDs outta Iraq. Oh wait.

[dcfdslv]

iaff4me:

Please post the link, the local papers arourd here has zero information on this:

Thanks :)

[STEALTH MODE]

iaff4me:

Please post the link, the local papers arourd here has zero information on this:

Thanks :)

Here is something on it at firehouse.com:

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=39190

[LT Mick]

What else is new from that bible toting liar. The election is over, he got his next 4 years to screw over the little man. Privitize Social Security, Cut the Fire grants, cut the Homeland Security Grants, send more americans to die in some frigging desert where the people do not want us. "You will have a democratic society just like us, wheter you want it or not" :mad:

[Emtmom]

What else is new from that bible toting liar. The election is over, he got his next 4 years to screw over the little man. Privitize Social Security, Cut the Fire grants, cut the Homeland Security Grants, send more americans to die in some frigging desert where the people do not want us. "You will have a democratic society just like us, wheter you want it or not" :mad:
Don't hold back there Lt., let it out. Damn you forgot hand in a budget without war costs, cutting education budgets that he so adamently (sp) backed before the election. We are being told that there is danger of another attack, worse then 9/11, and we will have no one to protect our ports, why, because that is just another of the budget cuts. We want to protect our country, BUT, we just can't afford to because we are too damn busy being the worlds caretakers.

[No Fear]

Well when you have an asshole for a union president slam the man at election time it was bound to happen.You don't hear the cops getting bashed do you. Secondly how many presidents before this one had a fire act or homeland security giving millions of dollars away. Don't you think the well was going to go dry sooner or later. As far as Mom's comments, maybe those budget cuts are needed to insure our safety. And if another attack happen How in the Fuck are we going to prevent it. Clinton or Bush couldn't do it. Hell we can stop our own crime rate , how in the hell are we going to know when another terrorists attack is going to happen. Get real.
And if you are going to talk about terrorism, Iraq was a host nation for terrorism. It was then and it is now. I rather fight them there then here, and they are terrorists causing some of the problems in Iraq now. The one thing I will agree on is that I don't want anyone screwing with my retirement. I contributed every two weeks to Uncle Sam on social security and it better be there when I can.

[mohican]

What else is new from that bible toting liar. The election is over, he got his next 4 years to screw over the little man. Privitize Social Security, Cut the Fire grants, cut the Homeland Security Grants, send more americans to die in some frigging desert where the people do not want us. "You will have a democratic society just like us, wheter you want it or not" :mad:

Ok, we don't have a democratic society

We are a representative republic

and "Bush is against the little man?"

get out of that democratic underground and smell the coffee

[oldhoseywhacker]

Want some cheese to go with that whine?

I'm sick and tired of watching city/county government employees B&M about how their job is being cut and it's The President's fault.

When a city has 18 line personnel (Fire, EMS and Police) making more money in a year than the mayor, there's something wrong. But don't blame The President.

Look in the mirror and figure out how many "sick days" you took on Christmas or Thanksgiving, only to have a miraculous enough recovery to work 4-12 the same day instead of 8-4. You get holiday pay for the shift you didn't work. The guy covering you gets 2x and a half then you get your 2x and a half covering some "sick person" on the next shift.

Don't tell me it doesn't happen. I see city guys bragging about how they screwed the system.

Well the till is empty and it's time to balance the books. Don't ask me to help. I moved to the 'burbs years ago and I'll never live in the city again. And as those that stay watch their taxes go up and property values go down, the exidus will continue.

Just don't blame The President. Blame the guy in the mirror.

[mohican]

Well, after all the rhetoric Bush did what some of you wanted going to cut funding for the FIRE ACT. Did you read todays paper? He is after your 401/457 (whatever you may have) retirement plan. Hope you enjoyed it. Fiscal responsiblity is what he says, after wasting the biggest surplus in US history for tax cuts for the richest. Think on that one. Crying no, saying I told you so yes. IAFF

Just curious, why do you think local fire departments is a federal issue?

Also, everybody that pays income tax got a tax cut, not just the "rich". And the "rich" pay a disproportionate share of the tax. The top 5% pay the majority of federal income tax.

Had the tax code been left the same, after 9/11 the economy would have really tanked. Tax cuts put more money immediately into the economy.

[Emtmom]

As far as Mom's comments, maybe those budget cuts are needed to insure our safety. And if another attack happen How in the Fuck are we going to prevent it. Clinton or Bush couldn't do it. Hell we can stop our own crime rate , how in the hell are we going to know when another terrorists attack is going to happen. Get real.
And if you are going to talk about terrorism, Iraq was a host nation for terrorism. It was then and it is now. I rather fight them there then here, and they are terrorists causing some of the problems in Iraq now. The one thing I will agree on is that I don't want anyone screwing with my retirement. I contributed every two weeks to Uncle Sam on social security and it better be there when I can.Budget cuts to ensure our safety, and yet they cut homeland security? That makes sense how? WHY, did he put in a budget, bragging about his low budget, only for congress and the senate to ask what about the war? Then he came back and asked for how many billion for the war? Don't tell us you are handing in this small budget, only to come back a couple weeks later asking for billions for the war. PUT IT IN THE BUDGET! The police money was cut too, and if this were a police board you might very well see them complaining. Some departments depend on Govt. funds to help them buy equipment, so it is a HUGE concern to them!

No Fear, you know I love to debate you, it's so much fun! lol
This was not all directed at your response, I'm just to damn lazy to quote the rest! lol

[Oldcaptain]

EMTMOM....I love the "eyeballs" comment,........great!

As far as cuts go, we need to begin lobbying our legislators to nix the cuts and fully fund homeland security and Fire Acts.

Nofear has a valid point about the bashing. You do not bite the hand that feeds you and when the IAFF denounced President Bush prior to the election, I knew that nothing good would come of it.

[haterplayer]

The President cut police grants from 600 mil to 60 mil after they supported his campaign. Imagine that!

[SouthsideTRKman]

Who gives two shits about FIREACT Funding...do you need to suck off the Federal Government Nipple forever?

If some of these departments didn't waste the money on workout equipment and actually bought useful things, maybe they wouldn't cut it. I know I would be more apt to give a grant to a company that wanted to purchase a TIC or some WMD detection equipment over a department that wanted to buy a treadmill or a universal machine. I ain't never seen a weight bench mitigate an Emergency.

The FIRE Act money is like Welfare man, if you are on it, it's hard to get off... :D

[EMT/FF99]

There are some Depts that depend soley on the Fire Act Grants. These Depts may try Fundraisers of all sorts, but do to the area they are in, the General Public doesnt have the Monies required to continue helping their Dept(s). I am talking small Depts with old apparatus (such as 1960s-1950s) that they use daily to respond to calls. Not all Depts in the States are up to date with Newer Apparatus & PPE. These Depts depend on the help from the Goverment as most all Depts do in some way or another.

I can however agree with you about Depts buying Equipment such as a Treamill -vs- PPE or Thermal Imager, Exhaust Fan & so forth. If that is the case, then hell why dont the Members pull the money together & buy a Threadmill? (Opening mouth inserting foot for comments to fly back now)

Who gives two shits about FIREACT Funding...do you need to suck off the Federal Government Nipple forever?

If some of these departments didn't waste the money on workout equipment and actually bought useful things, maybe they wouldn't cut it. I know I would be more apt to give a grant to a company that wanted to purchase a TIC or some WMD detection equipment over a department that wanted to buy a treadmill or a universal machine. I ain't never seen a weight bench mitigate an Emergency.

The FIRE Act money is like Welfare man, if you are on it, it's hard to get off... :D

[iaff4me]

Of the three that i feel I must respond to Southside whatever your screen name may be... that is the most ignorant statement I have heard in awhile. Heart disease kills more firemen/women/whatever the pc word than fires. Workout equip. is a life saver not a nipple. In shape firemen or hold on I have to catch my breath.... think on it.
Oldhosewacker.. Not one sick day, no holiday pay, no OT if used a vacation or sick day in a 27 day cycle and held over against your will. Don't preach when 18 people do it all. That is the best your old city can provide. As one person put it Volunteer fire protection you get what you pay for.
PFP3501, well since the ICMA decided that local FD are a calculated risk we need all the help we can get. My locality got new Scott air packs( after working with 20 year old MSA), a new rescue truck, and some workout equipment. The localities(ICMA) have fought against us every step of the way, collective barganing, NFPA 1710, safer act, etc. I am sure they are the ones behind this supplemental reirement plan change. All the insight for tonight. IAFF

[regs1]

Iaff4me;

Your original posting was about the various retirement plans, and cuts to them, however I have yet to find zero information about this, the fire act fund cuts is a different issue, Bush also cut funding for the National Fire Academy training classes.
The retirement plan change might be a local issue for you, and have zero impact to the nation, However you should fight the change, get the other unions involved this issue will affect them too.

I have my own personal opinions on the fireact cut, basically cutting fire department funding is just plain dumb, however we still have the police who want to be first in on everything, they can be the fire dept test canaries.

PFD3501, please get you facts correct, every survey I have seen shows that the middle class pays the disproportionate share of the tax.

SouthsideTRKman;

I do not where you from, but from your comments, you have no idea about fireact funding is and what its purpose.

[haterplayer]

MORE MONEY, MORE BEER!

SIGN ME UP!

[Mad Co Citizen]

Bottom line with the Fire Act...

The IAFF spoke for ALL FIREFIGHTERS, by having "Firefighters for Kerry" T-shirts (even though they do not represent most firefighters in the country)...you get what you pay for, right!!!! You pay union dues (I used to), which were used to support Kerry, who lost...and now firefighters do not have the full attention of the White House. Quit complaining here and write your almighty IAFF president a letter.

The comments about how the money is used and where it goes...why do rich fire departments (with 1990's apparatus) get $300,000 for a brand new custom fire engine with air conditioning, while departments around here operate 1970's apparatus, request under $100,000 for a conventional cab fire engine that meets basic needs, but get turned down every time?

Go look at the lists of FD's that got grants and do some research...politics as unsual, just like everything else.

[kep.ctc]

Bottom line with the Fire Act...

The IAFF spoke for ALL FIREFIGHTERS, by having "Firefighters for Kerry" T-shirts (even though they do not represent most firefighters in the country)...you get what you pay for, right!!!! You pay union dues (I used to), which were used to support Kerry, who lost...and now firefighters do not have the full attention of the White House. Quit complaining here and write your almighty IAFF president a letter.

The comments about how the money is used and where it goes...why do rich fire departments (with 1990's apparatus) get $300,000 for a brand new custom fire engine with air conditioning, while departments around here operate 1970's apparatus, request under $100,000 for a conventional cab fire engine that meets basic needs, but get turned down every time?

Go look at the lists of FD's that got grants and do some research...politics as unsual, just like everything else.


Well said Mad Co citizen there are many departments out there running 1970's apparatus first due yet a system with up to date equipment will beat them out. Like you said POLITICS!!!!!

If the IAFF would have supported Bush maybe just maybe the the Fire Act would not get cut. Now with that being said NYFD will get a grant this year because they had balls to seperate from the International and supported BUSH!!!

[SouthsideTRKman]

It still amazes me that departments out there use this money to buy Workout Equipment. If workout equipment is all your department needs, than maybe you don't need the money all that bad....

[kep.ctc]

Very true truckman try a fundraiser for the Firefighters fund and buy it. The money from the fire act should be used to replace equipment and tools to make the scene safer for eveyone. Not saying a treadmill would not make it safer but have a fundraiser do not use my tax dollars to purchase workout equipment.

Disclaimer: My views and opinions are personal.

[Chia6004]

Bottom line with the Fire Act...

The IAFF spoke for ALL FIREFIGHTERS, by having "Firefighters for Kerry" T-shirts (even though they do not represent most firefighters in the country)...you get what you pay for, right!!!! You pay union dues (I used to), which were used to support Kerry, who lost...and now firefighters do not have the full attention of the White House. Quit complaining here and write your almighty IAFF president a letter.

The comments about how the money is used and where it goes...why do rich fire departments (with 1990's apparatus) get $300,000 for a brand new custom fire engine with air conditioning, while departments around here operate 1970's apparatus, request under $100,000 for a conventional cab fire engine that meets basic needs, but get turned down every time?

Because the terrorists main target isn't BFN, those grants have become a way for dept that are at risk to get the equipment and training they need, The LA are just put in place a knew dispatch center, which has done away with juritisticonal bounds. Every Engine has a gps onboard that tells the dispatch center where they are. If an Engine from San Marino is closer to a call in Whittier they go, its actually kinda cool. The money for that system came from a grant.

I feel for you guys that have to have bake sales to pay for gas but the truth is that money could be put to better use.

Go look at the lists of FD's that got grants and do some research...politics as unsual, just like everything else.

[Emtmom]

It still amazes me that departments out there use this money to buy Workout Equipment. If workout equipment is all your department needs, than maybe you don't need the money all that bad....
There are different grants you can apply for, there is one for workout equipment, to keep your members in shape. Might have something to do with all these FF's dropping from heart attacks. MAYBE the govt. thinks the exercise equipment will help prevent some of the LODD's.
I'm not saying I disagree with you, that is the perfect fundraising thing, and the grant money could be used strictly for equipment replacement, but there is grant money set aside for gym equipment.
Of course give the govt. some time, it will cut that from the grant money. After all they are cutting everything else!

[No Fear]

Your tax dollars at work

[Mad Co Citizen]

Chia wrote:

Because the terrorists main target isn't BFN, those grants have become a way for dept that are at risk to get the equipment and training they need, The LA are just put in place a knew dispatch center, which has done away with juritisticonal bounds. Every Engine has a gps onboard that tells the dispatch center where they are. If an Engine from San Marino is closer to a call in Whittier they go, its actually kinda cool. The money for that system came from a grant.

I feel for you guys that have to have bake sales to pay for gas but the truth is that money could be put to better use.

So tell us, Chia, where is the terrorists main target? Which departments are at risk?

Your last comment needs a little explanation...what exactly do you mean by the money could be put to better use? If you are referring to grant money, maybe you NOT assume that everywhere in Kentucky is less important than the idiots that you protect (anyone who builds a house in a fire-prone forest and expects adequate fire protection is an idiot). After all, I live within 10 miles of a chemical weapons storage depot! Do you consider that a target?

[Chia6004]

So tell us, Chia, where is the terrorists main target? Which departments are at risk?

Your last comment needs a little explanation...what exactly do you mean by the money could be put to better use? If you are referring to grant money, maybe you NOT assume that everywhere in Kentucky is less important than the idiots that you protect (anyone who builds a house in a fire-prone forest and expects adequate fire protection is an idiot). After all, I live within 10 miles of a chemical weapons storage depot! Do you consider that a target?

Calm down bro if I sounded like an ass my bad I just finished part one of the haz mat tech training so I'm in a bit of a foul mood.

I would say that the heavily populated Urban areas are a bigger target. I think the Al Qaida would prefer to set of a RDD are some other type of WMD in LA then in Fairbanks IN.

No the people I protect are not anymore important then the people you protect, I just protect more.

(anyone who builds a house in a fire-prone forest and expects adequate fire protection is an idiot). Aint that a fact. My dept doesn't believe in "winners and losers" we protect everything even when the other depts pull out. I have never lost a house on a Wildland Incident, I'm very proud of that.

"Your last comment needs a little explanation...what exactly do you mean by the money could be put to better use?"

I meant that the depts in High risk areas could use that money to get the training and equipment they need to deal with a major incident, alot of depts in so cal are making "ALL" of their FF Haz Mat Techs. For some depts its a condtion of appoitment. My dept, which protecets almost two million people and the third largest county in the US only has one Haz Mat team.

Its a target in a tradtional war, but thnik of it from the terrorists pov. They only have a few RDDs, I hope its only a few, they wan't to get the largest result from their efforts since the weapon can only affect a certain amount of space which isn't too much they would want to set it off in an area where the most amount of people would be exposed to it. Where do you think more people would be exposed. So cal are Indy? New York are Iowa?

So I will say it again that money could be put to better use.

[Mad Co Citizen]

What percentage of the grant money is spent on the things that are aimed at terrorism response? From my research, it does not look like much at all.

The same money you spend on GPS, etc. could go a longer way in areas that are operating fire engines from the 1970's and do not need $300,000 for a fire engine or $50,000 for exercise equipment.

My problem is how the money is spent. Air conditioning for a fire engine should not be paid for with federal funds. Grants for fire engines should be given to departments who actually NEED them.

Also, look at fire death/injury rates for your state and then compare with others, such as Kentucky. Also look at firefighter injury and death rates. Your area, as well as many others, are progressive and have excellent tax bases to draw from...other areas are not progressive because the local and state governments do not have the cash. Given this, who should get federal funds?

Better spent elsewhere? The rich get richer and the poor get left behind...I thought you were fairly liberal in thinking...what happened?!?!

"anyone who builds a house in a fire-prone forest and expects adequate fire protection is an idiot). Aint that a fact. My dept doesn't believe in "winners and losers" we protect everything even when the other depts pull out. I have never lost a house on a Wildland Incident, I'm very proud of that."

I am glad we agree on that fact...same goes with those who build and rebuild (alot of times with FEMA money) in flood prone areas. I hope that you will let a house burn before yourself...noones house is worth more than a firefighters life...be proud, but please do not take that to an extreme...I would hate for you to suddenly not be on TWD anymore.

Remember, risk alot to save alot, risk a little to save a little, risk nothing to save nothing. Pride has nothing to do with it!!

[Chia6004]

"What percentage of the grant money is spent on the things that are aimed at terrorism response? From my research, it does not look like much at all."

I can't speak for every dept but every penny that my dept has got has went towards preparing ourselves to deal with a major event. This Urban crap is till new to us. We are a tradtional Wildland dept, I would say best in the country in that regard, we are know for it even in other states.

"The same money you spend on GPS, etc. could go a longer way in areas that are operating fire engines from the 1970's and do not need $300,000 for a fire engine or $50,000 for exercise equipment."

That wasn't my dept, My dept just started to update are front line fleet form 1990 Crapvatch ford cabs to a newer Smeal design, its been in firehouse and fire engineering (sp) as an add. That GPS system has its merits, if a major event ever takes place in the LA area the depts will be able to handle it better because their communication is the best.

"My problem is how the money is spent. Air conditioning for a fire engine should not be paid for with federal funds. Grants for fire engines should be given to departments who actually NEED them."

Actually AC has been a great thing out here. Rehab is soooooo much better when you get to jump into a nice cool cab after working a 3r alarm fire in the desert during August with a 117 temp.

"Also, look at fire death/injury rates for your state and then compare with others, such as Kentucky. Also look at firefighter injury and death rates. Your area, as well as many others, are progressive and have excellent tax bases to draw from...other areas are not progressive because the local and state governments do not have the cash. Given this, who should get federal funds?"

I can only speak for my dept, until 9/12/04, we hadn't lost a FF in the line of duty in over 12years. RIP Eva. Injuries happen but aren't that frequent. Yes we have a larger taz base to draw from but we also have more service to provide for. Some depts like mid sized cities only have to pay for a few services police and fire mainly. While the large Counties, San Bernardino, Riverside, LA, Orange, etc have many many more services to provide thus most of their money can't go to the fire dept.

"Better spent elsewhere? The rich get richer and the poor get left behind...I thought you were fairly liberal in thinking...what happened?!?!"

LOL, The money is needed in alot of those places to better prepare for a major event, I do really feel bad for the small vollie depts of the country, one of my friends who works for Compton fire went with his chief to make their request on these grants. He told me about letters from depts that have to share gear with eachother have fundraisers to pay for fuel thats sad. But it also tells me that they protect a very small population and the probability of an attack is quite low in that area.

I am glad we agree on that fact...same goes with those who build and rebuild (alot of times with FEMA money) in flood prone areas. I hope that you will let a house burn before yourself...noones house is worth more than a firefighters life...be proud, but please do not take that to an extreme...I would hate for you to suddenly not be on TWD anymore.

Its my job I've never felt like I was near death not even when I had to deploy my shelter last fire season. We don't lose homes its that simple. During the siege of 03 my Eng saved 23 homes in a 40 hour period, all straight BTW I was never close to death. Wild fire isn't really that dangerous if you understand the tactics and we would never put ourselves in a very dangerous postion. The thing is, what city depts consider dangerous is no where near what we consider dangerous.

Remember, risk alot to save alot, risk a little to save a little, risk nothing to save nothing. Pride has nothing to do with it!!

I hate ICS, IMS whatever were calling it now. Most boring classes ever.

[Mad Co Citizen]

You had to deploy your fire shelter and you did not feel you were in danger? Can you say baked potato? You know as well as I do that if you have to deploy it and cannot find a good clearing to setup in, you are toast.

No offense, but your statements should cause you to re evaluate your own attitude towards safety. You say that you "don't lose homes its that simple". You say "your dept does not believe in winners and losers". As long as your department has that attitude, people will continue to build and rebuild homes where they shouldn't, putting you and your department at risk.

Do you agree that there is a basic level at which every fire department should be equipped to? e.g. pump, hose, scba, ppe, etc.? It is my opinion that until every fire department has the basics, NO FD should be getting air conditioning, gps units, or anything else. A firefighter that dies in Kentucky because the department cannot afford a properly baffled tanker (not by your definition - our tankers carry water in a truck!) so that someone can rehab in A/C in So Cal or be located via GPS should be a crime. My opinion and I will leave it at that.

Maybe more money should be spent in CA on telling people that they cannot live in fire-prone forests, mud-slide areas (most I see on the news recently say they will rebuild - idiots!), earthquake-prone areas, etc, etc. Anyone who insures these people are idiots also!

I have been to your area many times and I can tell you that your departments need A/C on apparatus like it needs a hole in the head! The best thing about that area IS the weather!!!!

My point about the deaths, injuries (both civilian and fire service) is that this information should reveal where the money should be spent. Look at the stats, the southeast needs the help more than anyone.

Preparedness for a major event is best done by management procedures. The ICS/IMS you dislike is the key, not fancy equipment that will sit in compartments and deteriorate over time.

You Wrote: "every penny that my dept has got has went towards preparing ourselves to deal with a major event." What did your department buy with the money?

By the way, if you ever run into the fellas from March ARB, tell Rico Suave I say hello.

[Ghetto3FF]

Well said Mad Co citizen there are many departments out there running 1970's apparatus first due yet a system with up to date equipment will beat them out.
Hell there are STILL Depts out there running pre-1960s Apparatus as their 1st due!

[Chia6004]

"You had to deploy your fire shelter and you did not feel you were in danger? Can you say baked potato? You know as well as I do that if you have to deploy it and cannot find a good clearing to setup in, you are toast."

LOL shaken bake, popcorn etc.

Not always I wasn't able to clear the min space in time, but I'm still breathing many other people have had to deploy in an area that wasn't adqueate and are alive today. The fire was moving fast so we weren't under very long.

"No offense, but your statements should cause you to re evaluate your own attitude towards safety. You say that you "don't lose homes its that simple". You say "your dept does not believe in winners and losers". As long as your department has that attitude, people will continue to build and rebuild homes where they shouldn't, putting you and your department at risk."

Non taking. Like I said before, what alot of other depts consider dangerous we don't consider dangerous, we do it every day they do it only when the **** hits the fan. As for winners and losers its just a policy, look back at my depts history we haven't lose a Firefighter during structure protection ever, at least I can't recall of any times. The times we have lost people they were doing really dangerous things, like Helicopter 404 last year, cutting line downhill, on a 65% grade, fire below and a very rocky and nasty hillside.

We have another saying too. If your not breaking any of the 18s your back at the fire station.

"Do you agree that there is a basic level at which every fire department should be equipped to? e.g. pump, hose, scba, ppe, etc.? It is my opinion that until every fire department has the basics, NO FD should be getting air conditioning, gps units, or anything else. A firefighter that dies in Kentucky because the department cannot afford a properly baffled tanker (not by your definition - our tankers carry water in a truck!) so that someone can rehab in A/C in So Cal or be located via GPS should be a crime. My opinion and I will leave it at that."

There is a industry standard yes all depts should finction at some set level, promblem is, that it costs money and ever since 9/11 the fire service has a larger scope of practice. Hell alot of depts out here fell they need ALS on EVERY piece of equipment.

"Maybe more money should be spent in CA on telling people that they cannot live in fire-prone forests, mud-slide areas (most I see on the news recently say they will rebuild - idiots!), earthquake-prone areas, etc, etc. Anyone who insures these people are idiots also!"

Earthquake prone areas describe the enitre state, we are apart of the ring of fire nothing we can do about that. Hell I live almost right on top of the San Andreas fault. Not living in fire prone forests is not possible out here. Every forset is fire prone, do to the bark bettle and are current drought.

"I have been to your area many times and I can tell you that your departments need A/C on apparatus like it needs a hole in the head! The best thing about that area IS the weather!!!!"

My dept isn't on the coast we are inland in what is a tradtional desert. Summer temps reguarly break 100 degrees. My remark about a third alarm fire in 116 temp happened many times to me last year.

"My point about the deaths, injuries (both civilian and fire service) is that this information should reveal where the money should be spent. Look at the stats, the southeast needs the help more than anyone."

That is true there are many promblems down there most of the FF line of duty deaths come from small volunteer depts in the region. One thing about that though, not to downplay their service to the community but maybe 14yo kids and 84 yo men shouldn't be on a fire Engine.

"Preparedness for a major event is best done by management procedures. The ICS/IMS you dislike is the key, not fancy equipment that will sit in compartments and deteriorate over time."

I don't hate ICS, hell we invented it, just after taking Rescue systems classes, fire control 3 and auto ex type classes sitting through. The general staff is. Span of control is. Gets damn boring. Cali prepardeness is top notch, we have the ability to take resources from any dept that has them, we invented ICS we have been using it for quite some time and we routinely deal with large and lengthy events more so then anyother region. We have the managment skills, we don't have the equipment and training to respond to a WMD attack.

"You Wrote: "every penny that my dept has got has went towards preparing ourselves to deal with a major event." What did your department buy with the money?"

Another Haz Mat support unit and some hm tech training for the addtional personnel. The ACs came with are new engines that were bought with county money.

By the way, if you ever run into the fellas from March ARB, tell Rico Suave I say hello.

I hope I'm never on a XRI strike team but if I'm I will be sure to tell him.

[Mad Co Citizen]

"what alot of other depts consider dangerous we don't consider dangerous, we do it every day they do it only when the **** hits the fan."

Like what?

"If your not breaking any of the 18s your back at the fire station."

Ok, I'll bite, what are the 18s?

How much is your insurance, since you live on the San Andreas? Does it cover earthquakes? Are you crazy? If you live where I think you live, that is the lower tip of the fault line and is a highly dangerous area with small fissures everywhere.

I will take 116 in your area over 100 with 100% humidity anyday and twice on Sundays.

[mohican]

Iaff4me;

Your original posting was about the various retirement plans, and cuts to
PFD3501, please get you facts correct, every survey I have seen shows that the middle class pays the disproportionate share of the tax.

.
Only if you get your facts from DU underground or such.

You need to think of this logically - not sociallicstically (new word alert :D ;) )

The "wealthy" pay a disproportionate amount of the tax

If income tax must stay, I would be in favor of a flat tax. But I really like the FAIR TAX PLAN

[Chia6004]

"what alot of other depts consider dangerous we don't consider dangerous, we do it every day they do it only when the **** hits the fan."

Like what?

Wildfire. City depts only get sent to wildland incidents when there is a major crisis. We go to wildfire all season.

"If your not breaking any of the 18s your back at the fire station."

Ok, I'll bite, what are the 18s?

I thought you knew my bad. The 18 situations that shout watch out.

The fire is not scouted and sized up.

Number two:

You're in country not seen in daylight.

Number three:

Your safety zones and escape routes aren't identified.

Number four:

You're unfamiliar with weather and local factors influencing fire behavior .

Number five:

You're uninformed on strategy, tactics and hazards .

Number six:

Instructions and assignments are not clear.

Number seven:

You have no communication link with crew members and supervisors.

Number eight:

You're constructing a line without a safe anchor point.

Number nine:

You're building a fireline downhill with fire below.

Number ten:

You're attempting a frontal assault on the fire.

Number eleven:

There is unburned fuel between you and the fire.

Number twelve:

You cannot see the main fire, and you're not in contact with anyone who can.

Number thirteen:

You're on a hillside where rolling material can ignite fuel below.

Number fourteen:

The weather is getting hotter and drier.

Number fifteen:

Wind increases and/or changes direction.

Number sixteen:

You're getting frequent spot fires across the fire line.

Number seventeen:

Terrain and fuels make escape to safety zones difficult.

Number eighteen:

You feel like taking a nap near the fireline.


How much is your insurance, since you live on the San Andreas? Does it cover earthquakes? Are you crazy? If you live where I think you live, that is the lower tip of the fault line and is a highly dangerous area with small fissures everywhere.

Im near March ARB. Earthquake insurance I don't have it, my homeowners insurance doesn't cover it. It not that bad, we are over do for a major quake in the area, I'm thinking this year just beacuse the Ring of fire has been really active. FYI, I don't live right on top of the fault line but within 20 miles of it. My fire station is right on top if it.

I will take 116 in your area over 100 with 100% humidity anyday and twice on Sundays.

Dry is always better then wet thats for sure.

[Chia6004]

Great news people. The Syrian backed Lebanon govt fell today.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-022805lebanon_wr,0,4037134.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[face_couldn't_be_happier]

[No Fear]

It always nice to see that Chia and Mad Co agree to disagree on politics. And your right Chia that is good news. Hate to agree with ya but you got me on that one,

[Mad Co Citizen]

I agree to agree on the Lebanon issue!!!!

Chia, your policy of breaking the 18s...you are presented with alot of these all of the time...Number 11 for example. This one applies when you pull out of the firehouse!!!!

[SouthsideTRKman]

You are right, Workout Equipment is a life saver in your neck of the woods, why would you need Firefighting Equipment when you usually just make a parking lot anyway? I guess a treadmill is worth more in NOVA than a Piece of Fire Apparatus or a TIC or some sort of Firefighter Safety Device. It's hard to get in trouble when your Yard Breathing....

Regs1,

You are right, I don't have much of an idea about the FireACT funding. I just know it is Government Money that is given to Local Departments. When in reality, the damn Local Governments need to be providing this shit. Maybe if some of these cities would shut down Needle Exchange Centers, Planned Parenthood Facilities and Stop Taking care of Illegal Aliens and Voluntary Welfare Abusers, they would have enough money to not SUCK OFF THE GOVERNMENT NIPPLE.

Like I Said, the Fire ACT is Welfare for the Fire Department. It's good for a while, but you become dependant on it.

[mohican]

PFD3501, please get you facts correct, every survey I have seen shows that the middle class pays the disproportionate share of the tax.


http://www.techcentralstation.com/011703B.html
from:
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From Progressive to Parasitic
By Stephen W. Stanton

......"Politically, progressive taxation destroys our notion of government "by the people". Fewer than half of all 285 million Americans file income tax returns. Fewer than 3% of American citizens pay the majority of income taxes. Clearly, "the people" do not bear the burden of self-government. For too many, there is no shared sacrifice, without which democracy falters. "..................
............"Morally, it is wrong to make freeloading our national policy. More than 75% of Americans pay less than 4% of income taxes. That is way too progressive by any measure. With so little personal stake in the government, lots of people no longer feel the responsibility of ownership. They ignore John F. Kennedy's injunction and ask only what the country can do for them, since they do not have to foot the bill. ".....

http://atkinsongibson.com.au/ag_rates.html