Leather Lid of choice

[SIXand17]

Considering buying one, but I want pros and cons from people that wear them regularly. Please comment on weight, ride height, comfort, price, performance in the field in different scenarios, and anything else you think is important. I’m familiar with their specifications and NFPA/OSHA compliance (or not), so please leave this out of your evaluation.

Here are four that I’ve seen on the market – if there are others, please list them and where they can be found.

Cairns N5A (New Yorker)
Cairns N6A (Sam Houston)
Paul Conway American Heritage Leather
Phenix 1500 TL2

[AC302]

For my money the N5A is the only way to go! Since we are an OSHA state and I can wear the 5A I can't see spending my money on the 6A for essentially the same helmet. As far as fit the 5A and 6A are about the same. Personally I remove the ratchet suspension and just use the fit adjustment inside the helmet. I feel it fits better that way. The Conway is kind of cheap looking and all the ones I have personally seen (about 5) have very thin and flexible leather. In my mind this is not a good thing. I know a couple of people that like it though. Just not for me. As far as the Phenix I have never had one to evaluate, but in pictures it does not look much different than the Conway. So in a nutshell I would go with the 5A or 6A depending on how important or mandatory NFPA is in your particular case. I wear a 5A both at work and my own purchase as a volunteer. I have worn 5A's in pre and post OSHA configuration since 1980. Hope this helps.

[Fat92boy2001]

I am on my second N6A, my first did its job. I had a roof come in on me and my partner when looking for a child that wasn't home. The shell took the beating and saved my neck. Because Cairns has a 5 year "Line of Duty" shell warranty I got a new helmet no problem. The only reason I have a N6A is because of the NFPA rating required by my dept. Great helemt and Great fit, even better than my department issued Ben 2.

GOOD LUCK

[21Truck]

I say go with the Cairns N5A...a well spent investment..I come forma dept that uses cairns 660 metros and I went and bought my own helmet. While the N5A is an OSHA only helmet I bought a pair of goggles to put on it eventhough i havent put them on yet. My dept said I could wear it if I wanted with no gripes about it. And with NFPA and all that If you buy a helmet with bourkes I'd say go and buy a pair of safety glasses tow ear for accidents and stuff so you're covered. And after buying a leather helmet i'll never wear anyhting else again

[16Engine]

I've had two N5A's, both made in 1992, one bought on ebay for $250. I've taken out the suspension and just used the straight fit and they've both been great. Very solid and a great fit, much better than any plastic helmet. But hey, that's just my .02.

[Chiefwiggims]

Since joining the fire service I have never worn anything else except leather, however I did notice that after MSA purchased Cairns the quality went way down and I simply cannot wear the cairns anymore.

The cairns N6A:

Sits too high on the head
Weighs too much
Is not comfortable for long periods of time

I now wear a Phenix TL-2 leather helmet and I love it! It's super light(55 ounces) and it has a very traditional look, is NFPA compliant and is very comfortable. Best of all the company is owned by 2 retired fire chiefs.

Fairfax County recently conducted a study on a bunch of helmets and the Phenix came out on top, they now ISSUE all members their own leather!! Good to see the tradition is still alive.

You guys should check it out if your in the market for a new helmet. www.phenixfirehelmets.com they have a dealer here in Maryland that is a career fireman and he has demos for you to try out.

[chrism8922]

AC302, how easy (or difficult) is it to remove the ratcheting headband? My first New Yorker is being shipped right now, and I've heard removing that helps the fit.


Chris

[AC302]

AC302, how easy (or difficult) is it to remove the ratcheting headband? My first New Yorker is being shipped right now, and I've heard removing that helps the fit.


Chris
See my pm for details, but it snaps into the helmet under the helmet liner...just snap it out, adjust the plastic headband, use the foam rubber padding if needed and...enjoy!!

[AC302]

[

You guys should check it out if your in the market for a new helmet. www.phenixfirehelmets.com they have a dealer here in Maryland that is a career fireman and he has demos for you to try out.[/QUOTE]
Hey Chief..thanks for the link. I never realized Ronnie Coleman was part of Phenix. He is truly a dynamic individual. I'll have to check out the helmets sometimes. Thanks

[Oldcaptain]

There is only one "true" leather helmet and that is the Cairns. I have had several in my career and would have nothing less unless mandated by the department to wear something else. I get the numbers confused, but I currently have the NFPA Compliant Cairns.

[chrism8922]

I just got my Cairns New Yorker!! What a great helmet! Can't wait to break it in on its first fire!!

Thanks for all the help!



Chris

[leatherforever]

The leather New Yorker is the only helmet. When I first started in the fire dept. 20 yrs ago I was given a fiberglass and I can tell you that after 5 helmets fail I went to the leather and haven't looked back

[PipemanLt.]

when i started in the fire service 20yrs ago the leather NYer without the plastic impact shell gave you the best protection to this date. the newer leathers are to heavy and sit to high on the head, there was no real reason to change this helmets, except for the companies to make more money in my opinion. i now have a Phenix leather, and it is the best thing to the old leathers, that we cant use anymore thanks to NFPA, but if i have to go with the cairns i would get the N5A and the fiberglass nyer just dosnt hold up like the leather. The Leather Nyer is the true symbol of the fire service, Leather Forever.

[Kodethree]

What are the Phenix TL-2 leather helmets going for, I have seen the website but the list no Price, thought I might ask someone who has made a purchase, The 55 oz weight sounds like a very appealing thing. If anyone can let me know I would appreciate it. thanks

[Kodethree]

Since joining the fire service I have never worn anything else except leather, however I did notice that after MSA purchased Cairns the quality went way down and I simply cannot wear the cairns anymore.

The cairns N6A:

Sits too high on the head
Weighs too much
Is not comfortable for long periods of time

I now wear a Phenix TL-2 leather helmet and I love it! It's super light(55 ounces) and it has a very traditional look, is NFPA compliant and is very comfortable. Best of all the company is owned by 2 retired fire chiefs.

Fairfax County recently conducted a study on a bunch of helmets and the Phenix came out on top, they now ISSUE all members their own leather!! Good to see the tradition is still alive.

You guys should check it out if your in the market for a new helmet. www.phenixfirehelmets.com they have a dealer here in Maryland that is a career fireman and he has demos for you to try out.
What are the Phenix TL-2 leather helmets going for, I have seen the website but the list no Price, thought I might ask someone who has made a purchase, The 55 oz weight sounds like a very appealing thing. If anyone can let me know I would appreciate it. thanks

[PipemanLt.]

The price for a new Phenix Leather TL2 1500 is $ 544.00 that includes the leather front piece. It is a very comfortable helmet to wear, sits low on head, if you go to the phenixfirehelmets.com web site, they have a list of vendors to contact. i did get a price of $355 from one vendor. so it pays to look around. one note the paul conway shields need alittle modification to install on helmet, factory holes do not line up with mount. fyi. i purchased mine from ebay for $300 if you want to wear a nice lightweight leather helmet this is it.

[Kodethree]

Thanks for the heads up on the price....Appreciate it!

[Kodethree]

Now onto another question....anyone out there own a paul conway leather and is so how do you like it? I called today and they stated that the conway leather was only 62 ounces, Anyone that wears one please let me know how Ya like it.

[Romney FF]

I have nothing to compare to, but I don't need too. I will never wear anything other than a New Yorker. A little heavy, but love every second it is on my noggin.

[Truck422187]

I've got a phenix TL2 as well , great helmet. the price was around 400 total but it came loaded with everything. shield, bourkes, two door stops, and a light and reflectors to put on the helmet.

[Kodethree]

Anyone out there use the Paul Conway American Heritage Leather? I see a few people have listed it as thier choice. If you have used one drop me a PM.

[E251]

It is a known fact that Cairns is at the top of the market when it comes to Leather fire helmets. In the area that I am in you rarely see Conways or Phenix. I know alot of people chose the Conways for their low profile apperance, however the leather on both the Phenix and the Conways are really soft, and I don't see how they could possibly provide the same level of protection as the Cairns 5A or 6A.

Also someone stated above that recently Fairfax, VA conducted a study and were pleased with the Phenix helmets and decided to go with the Phenix helmet as an issued piece of equipment. The Department that I work for(also In the DC Metro area) recently issued a safety bulletin that was passed on to us from Fairfax Co. that stated they were experiencing problems with the Phenix helmets and that they experienced damage to the helmet under light fire conditions.

My advice would be to research your preference before purchase. To each his/her own. For me CAIRNS N6A ALL THE WAY!

[Karl Spackler]

Have had the same N6A for 19yrs, can't complain about it one bit

[Asst293Cakes]

I love my Newyorker....... Most comfortabel helmet in my opinion.... I also take out the ratchet makes for a better fit

[Truckie4life20]

I have heard different reasons; the N5A won't meet NFPA because of the impact shell, but then I have heard just because of the lack of goggles. I know nowadays you have to have bourkes supplemented with another form of eye protection, but what's the deal with the impact shell?

[Three891883]

I joined the fire service in 1975, I am a life member of both of those orginal departments, Bought My first Cairns 5a for 60 bucks I wore it for many years until NFPA came in and bought my 1st N5A, when I got n my job, they were wearing Non approved versions so I worn My 5a for a year, and put my back up 5a (2nd) on line and wore that one which was in brand new condition but had been shelved for 10 years, when my department finally went NFPA I was assigned one and had one handed down to me by a retired Lt. who had purchased his own... it so as it happens I have 2 5a's and 2 N5a's
in my living room, and the one I was assigned which I've been wearing at work for two years now... I've never worn anything But a Cairns New Yorker.. I wont badmouth
Conway or anyone elses, But I know that Cairns and brother has made the leather helmet for a hellava lot longer then, My mere 30 years of wearing one...Each of My helmets is servicable today as the day I bought them, Both 5 a's have had liners replaced and are in new condition so other then the fact they wont withstand a 600 ppsi impact, ( as if My neck would) I would wear them both into any situation today as I have over the last 30 years....

I would suggest that if you think your borderline size wise (M or L) unless you wear aa size 8 1/2 hat..(lol) opt for the medium the adjustments vary a lot and you will have some room to add a little size
while the large prolly would be too big and ill fitting on most "normal" sized heads
the skull pad is useless with 99.9% of folks as far as "the ratchet" goes personally I think they are crap too, however I know some guys who actually like them... unlike the meadow muffin type pad they can be removed or added as long as your careful about removing them, to get an idea of which way you prefer.. the head cushion would need to be cut to remove it... the helmet should ride just barely above your brow, without scba and hood on to allow for enough room when your wearing them... If it has a metal type chin strap buckle, I'd suggest opting for a plastic buckle or even milwakie style strap.... other then that... each head is differant... try out your options if your able to find them around... as far as weight goes They arent so heavy so as to make you collapse if they do, you'd better do something differant maybe fire police?
389

[GaFool]

Been wearing leather since I was converted from tupperware back in 1992, I am a Cairns man all the way.

My choice is a Houston as it meets the NFPA std's.

I really love the profile of the New Yorker but in the event I go while on the job, I don't want to take a chance on my wife not getting the money because I wasn't wearing a NFPA approved lid.

CYA.......sucks to bow but she deserves the money for putting up with me all these years.

Ga Fool
North Gawga

[CFP 7021]

i own a paul conway american heritage and have had no problems with it. I've had it for about 8 years now. The thing with the conway is that it is a liner wrapped by leather, it is not 100% leather. The leather has held up well under heat and fire, and overall I have no real complaints about the helmet. It rides comfortably (way more comfortable than my MP Ben II) and still has a decent look. I do wear mine with the ratchet. One day I may own a Cairns (MSA) but I have heard that their quality has gone down. The one selling point when I bought my conway was that it was only ~$300

[2020]

Also someone stated above that recently Fairfax, VA conducted a study and were pleased with the Phenix helmets and decided to go with the Phenix helmet as an issued piece of equipment. The Department that I work for(also In the DC Metro area) recently issued a safety bulletin that was passed on to us from Fairfax Co. that stated they were experiencing problems with the Phenix helmets and that they experienced damage to the helmet under light fire conditions.



I spoke with the Phenix rep for my area, and he assured me that the issue, whatever it was (I forget the details), was taken care of, and that it wasn't that big of a deal in the first place. Additionally, being relatively familiar w/ Fairfax County, if there was an issue w/ ANY of their issued PPE that they felt was a significant safety issue to their members (and they do err on the side of caution), they would have pulled the helmets out of the field in a heart beat.

I then purchased a Phenix leather helmet, and have enjoyed it. No real fire seen as of yet, so it hasn't really been tested.

I had a Conway leather as a volunteer, and while I liked it, it is heavier, and sits noticeably higher on my head than the Phenix.

[highlander]

Have a New Yorker, a PC, and a Phenix.
Phenix wins for long term wearability due to weight.
Conway wins for most durable 'painted' surface as it is color dyed.
Cairns wins for overall safety IMHO. The phenix gives up some safety factor for weight.
All good helmets. Best options, go to an EXPO and try one of each on for yourself.

[HooknLadder]

In the military (early 80s) I had a plastic type helmit then went to fiberglass then finally to Cairns Metro. In the civilian world I started out with a NYer for about two years then we got issued Sam Houstons. Wasn't long before the shield broke on it so I retrofitted it with a bourkes shield (shhhh). That lasted me a lot of years. Now I'm in Fairfax and have the Phenix.
I tend to agree with highlander overall. The problems with the Phenix (in addition to the fire damage complaints) was the leather shell seperating from the inner (rachet) lining. We'd have people bending over for equipment and it would look like they had a flip-top helmit....or it would come off altogether. Apparently, Phenix is a small company and was faced with an order for a 1300 person department so the tack points (glue) were overlooked. I didn't have a say in choosing our helmits but I do like the Phenix. I did, however, kind of chuckle at the built in "Bronx Bend" it comes with. That used to be sort of a badge of honor because it came from a lot of fire exposure over years of use. Now it comes made to order. ;) P.S. I miss my NYer :(

[Lagerboy]

I have a few Cairns N5A's in my volly house and I wear a N6A at work. Never wore the "other" leathers out there so I really do not have an opinion on them.

BTW- I have a small leather fire helmet repair business non commercial. Something I do in my small garage when time permits.

I am looking for Used Cairns Leather fire helmet(s) that you may be interested in selling. I am looking for any size N5A or N6A with impact liners that are good shape or beat up and in need of repair. I.E. wire showing, cracks in leather, fire damage, etc.
I am interested in purchasing your old leather helmets to repair/refurb and then resell.
Please see my pictures to see what I am looking for. Please email or PM me if interested in selling your helmet. Also selling leather fire helmets privately and on Ebay.
Email at smokeshowing1@comcast.net

http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb143/smokeshowing/
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlagerboy

[CRMCMAHON]

N5A of course, i am on my second N5A, My first met an unfortunate end when it was ejected from the truck going to a call and was run over several times. The leather shell held up well but the impact liner mounts and brim where damaged. i show this helmet to younger fireman so they know why i wear leather. If i can find some pics of the helmet i will post them.

[OrangeHelmet4]

I would go with a N5a or an N6a. I have an N6a and I love it, I also really like the N5a's as well. The phenix leather's and Paul Conway leather's are not on my favorite list. I like cairns because they make a great product from plastic to leathers.