Terri Schiavo

[Rackin A Round]

I think everyone has pretty much heard of this case, but if not, here is the quick story: Young lady (i think in her 20's) had a heart attack and no oxygen was getting to her brain for quite some time. She is now brain dead. She is now in her mid 40's I believe and the only way she can get food, water, etc. is through a feeding tube. Her husband, Michael Schiavo has already had the feeding tube taken out 2 times and wants this one to be the final one. It will take approximatly 2 weeks for Terri to die. Her parents are trying to get the doctors to keep the tube in, but the battle was lost once again. How does everyone feel about this? I personally think that it is cruel...I mean, you are starving someone to death in a hospital! They took the tube out Friday at approximately 1pm, since then she has gotten noticeably worse.

[burning85]

I think everyone has pretty much heard of this case, but if not, here is the quick story: Young lady (i think in her 20's) had a heart attack and no oxygen was getting to her brain for quite some time. She is now brain dead. She is now in her mid 40's I believe and the only way she can get food, water, etc. is through a feeding tube. Her husband, Michael Schiavo has already had the feeding tube taken out 2 times and wants this one to be the final one. It will take approximatly 2 weeks for Terri to die. Her parents are trying to get the doctors to keep the tube in, but the battle was lost once again. How does everyone feel about this? I personally think that it is cruel...I mean, you are starving someone to death in a hospital! They took the tube out Friday at approximately 1pm, since then she has gotten noticeably worse.

it really is a very hard decision to make and i would hate to be the judge thats been on this case for years!!! i do however feel strongly about the fact that they have gotten the senate involved, i think there is no need for that.thats an awful thing to live a life like that for however long your body will hold out that's really no life at all...i know i wouldnt want to live like that and thats why i voted in favor of her husbands wishes...even though it would be painstakingly awful i feel her family should except the fact of the state of her body and mind and realize there wont be any change for the better,and maybe decide to let go. :(

[Donny Shadow]

I have been waiting for someone to start something on this. I personally believe it is inhumane to keep Terri alive, if thats what you want to call her. A doctor was on t.v. the other day talking about it and its not like she is going to be like oh im hungry. We as human beings eat because we like the taste of the food she on the other hand does not taste the food for it is just being pumped into her through a tube. This is not living my friend, I do not understand how anyone could keep this poor girl alive. Her parents are selfish to want to keep her alive through all of this. How anyone could stand to see their child like that even is beyond me. There are some weird people out there but she's a vegetable! She did not want to depend on any machines to live. I agree with her husband 100% actually I think it should have been pulled a very long time ago. What life is she living? Answer that for me. What does she do everyday? Absolutely nothing because she can't. Now put yourself in her husbands shoes. Every day for the past 20 yrs he's had to see her like that, he is fufilling her wishes to not be hooked up to any tubes. You say she has gotten considerably worse since they took the tube out okay yes she's going to get worse she's going to die. Let her rest in peace. She's not laying there thinking to herself oh no they are going to starve me to death, she's not laying there thinking anything. Her stomache isn't growling because its hungry thats not the case. She's been eating off a tube for 20 years so yes basically they are 'starving' her to death but as I have stated earlier she is used to having the 'food' if you will just pumped into her. So now her body does not have the 'food' it needs and yes slowly her body will shut down. All I can say about this...IT'S ABOUT TIME

[Rackin A Round]

i know i wouldnt want to live like that and thats why i voted in favor of her husbands wishes...even though it would be painstakingly awful i feel her family should except the fact of the state of her body and mind and realize there wont be any change for the better,and maybe decide to let go. :(


Burning, I know that I would not want to live like that either, but the way that they are letting her die??? If you were her, would you prefer to let them kill you slowly by not letting you eat or drink or maybe push some meds, making it easier? Just think how awful it is for her not being able to drink water! Go just one day without drinking anything...it is not the best feeling in the world. They will do this to her until her body cannot stand it anymore and just gives up! we are starving this poor girl to death. we are making her dehydrated until she shrivels up!

[burning85]

Burning, I know that I would not want to live like that either, but the way that they are letting her die??? If you were her, would you prefer to let them kill you slowly by not letting you eat or drink or maybe push some meds, making it easier? Just think how awful it is for her not being able to drink water! Go just one day without drinking anything...it is not the best feeling in the world. They will do this to her until her body cannot stand it anymore and just gives up! we are starving this poor girl to death. we are making her dehydrated until she shrivels up!


i see your point rackin, but any other methods would be considered assisted suicide and thats illegal and unethical for doctors to do, they can remove the feeding tube by the families wishes that is the same as removing life support(for breathing) and her life support happens to be a feeding tube, and it's her husbands wish to have her removed from life support, the issue comes in due to her families protests because she had no living will and whatever else! and like shadow mention her brain and organs arent working together she cant comprehend-hey im thirsty or hungry. for my job i work with a kid who has cerrebral palsy he is fed by a feeding tube...so trust me i can see both sides of the argument!

[emtfff129057]

I have been following the case ever sense the first time the tube was taken out.

Her husband claims that she would not want to live like this but has nothing in writing stressing that. Her parents don't want to see her go and stress that she would want all that could help her live. Her parents say that she has had some movement and responses but then again some of the doctors say that she has had not and will never recover. Then again some say that she will. It's a tough case. I can see the husband's point of view but then again I can see the parents point a view. I do not like the fact that the husband promised to love, honor, and charish, in good times or bad. Yet he has had this relationship with another woman that produced two children. If you think about, he is an adulterist. No parent should ever have to bury a child, regaurdless of how and why they are doing it.

I for one would not want to live like that. My husband and I have been talking about getting a living will. I would stress that everyone get one and let your family know that you have one and what it reads.

[Mad Co Citizen]

I am disgusted by the back and forth actions with respect to this case AND with the implication that politicians and especially G Dubs may stick his nose into this (I read this in the paper this morning). Unfortunately, there was no living will, so we have to rely on second hand information as to her wishes. I believe that the husband is the only one in a position to make the decision. The ONLY solution that will come close to satisfying everyone is to give the husband a polygraph regarding his wife's desires. I am not 100% on polygraphs, but how else do we get to the bottom of the whole thing?

If it were me in the same situation, don't starve me to death...give me a lethal dose of something. The cost of keeping her alive for 20 years has been paid by whom? I do not want to be that kind of burden on my family or society.

[Donny Shadow]

Just think how awful it is for her not being able to drink water! Go just one day without drinking anything...it is not the best feeling in the world. They will do this to her until her body cannot stand it anymore and just gives up! we are starving this poor girl to death. we are making her dehydrated until she shrivels up!

Techinically she does not drink water... she has a tube that pumps nutirients into her thus fourth she does not actuall drink anything. Perhaps you should research before you attempt to make arguements with false information.

[AC302]

They should have respected the husbands wishes long ago. Now here come our good old politicians in DC pushing their weight around where it don't belong. They cannot pass any helpful or meaningful legislation for the people, but they can interfere in a case where quite possibly they are not allowed by our very Constitution to intervene!

[EMT/FF99]

I think everyone has pretty much heard of this case, but if not, here is the quick story: Young lady (i think in her 20's) had a heart attack and no oxygen was getting to her brain for quite some time. She is now brain dead. She is now in her mid 40's I believe and the only way she can get food, water, etc. is through a feeding tube. Her husband, Michael Schiavo has already had the feeding tube taken out 2 times and wants this one to be the final one. It will take approximatly 2 weeks for Terri to die. Her parents are trying to get the doctors to keep the tube in, but the battle was lost once again. How does everyone feel about this? I personally think that it is cruel...I mean, you are starving someone to death in a hospital! They took the tube out Friday at approximately 1pm, since then she has gotten noticeably worse.
No matter what way we look at this, Not one here can truely understand what the family is going thru at this point in time, unless we have been down that same road ourselves.

[STEALTH MODE]

Ok, I am not going to lie - I've heard bits and pieces of the case, but not as up to date on it as the rest of you...
I picked the "husbands wishes" choice (I guess) - it's a tough call. BUT, my answer could change several times by putting myself in other peoples shoes.
If it were ME on laying in the bed, I would NOT want to be laying there anymore, putting my husband and family through the LONGEST mourning period of all time...
If it were my spouse - I am sure I would hang on for a while, but not this long. Mourning is the hardest time in the world (in my opinion) and doing it for that long - well, could end up killing everyone else (ie. a husband or family with thoughts of suicide because they cannot bare to see their loved one in that state, or it's my fault, your fault, etc.)
If it were my child - I would not want to let go either, but I don't think I would want to see my child like that forever... BUT, there have been known to be miracles that have brought people back when doctors said they AREN'T coming back - so, again tough!
As for what someone (sorry, can't remember who said it) said about the husband having a relationship being wrong. I can say that if it were me laying in that bed - there is NO way I would want my spouse to live life by themself, alone for that long - I would hope that he would be able to move on and live his life. I'm sure that man had to get comfort from somewhere...

Anyway, those are my opinions for each side - they may not be right or even what I'd actually do if it were me in the situation... Honestly my opinions could change in a heartbeat if it were my family involved in this terrible, terrible situation... it's very sad.

[STEALTH MODE]

No matter what way we look at this, Not one here can truely understand what the family is going thru at this point in time, unless we have been down that same road ourselves.

Yeah - there it is summed up - that's my opinion also - well said...

[RmeFeuerMädchen]

Why is/has there been any question to the issue? She is brainDEAD, right? What are the chances of her waking up and living a normal or even semi-normal life? Unfortunately, there is none. I actually agree with rackin about the meds. So it is ok to humanely administer lethal injection (yes I understand very different circumstances), but physican assisted suicides are considered inhumane as well as unethical? I really dont get these peoples' methods of reasoning. Not at all saying that she was or is a bad person, but look, she is not a productive member of society anymore. She should be assisted on over so her soul as well as her family can have some closure. Can you imagine the torment she must be feeling? I'm sure she is ready to pass on over to her afterlife. Another question, how do these rules go when dealing with persons residing in the poverty section of the great divide? "Oh, you cant afford it? OK, machines go off tomorrow!" I'm guessing its about time for me to transcend back into my own little world.

[emtfff129057]

Why is/has there been any question to the issue? She is brainDEAD, right? What are the chances of her waking up and living a normal or even semi-normal life? Unfortunately, there is none. I actually agree with rackin about the meds. So it is ok to humanely administer lethal injection (yes I understand very different circumstances), but physican assisted suicides are considered inhumane as well as unethical? I really dont get these peoples' methods of reasoning. Not at all saying that she was or is a bad person, but look, she is not a productive member of society anymore. She should be assisted on over so her soul as well as her family can have some closure. Can you imagine the torment she must be feeling? I'm sure she is ready to pass on over to her afterlife. Another question, how do these rules go when dealing with persons residing in the poverty section of the great divide? "Oh, you cant afford it? OK, machines go off tomorrow!" I'm guessing its about time for me to transcend back into my own little world.

As for the poverty section of this is well there isn't one. Medical profesionals have to under law provide the care that they would give lets say Mr. Microsoft. They can not say that this person can not afford it so they are going to turn the machines off.

Quote from Stealth- As for what someone (sorry, can't remember who said it) said about the husband having a relationship being wrong. I can say that if it were me laying in that bed - there is NO way I would want my spouse to live life by themself, alone for that long - I would hope that he would be able to move on and live his life. I'm sure that man had to get comfort from somewhere...

It was me that said that it was wrong. This is why my husband and I have talked about living wills and are planning on getting one. If Mr. Schiavo wanted a normal life and not live alone for that long then he should have given the parent's of Terri the guardianship that they so much want. On March 1st of this year, they filed 11 counts of appeals one of which was a divorce petion seeking appointment of the legal guardian to act on the brain-damaged woman's behalf. They motion states that he has engaged in open adultery, and clearly Terri would not desire to die while married to Mr. Schiavo. You also have to understand that the parents are devoted Roman Catholics and abide by the beliefs of thier religion. One of which the Schiavo's were married under.

Quote from EMT/ff99- No matter what way we look at this, Not one here can truely understand what the family is going thru at this point in time, unless we have been down that same road ourselves.

You have a valid point. Knowing you the way that I do, your family has been through this. But on the reverse side because of religious belief's. So you know what it is like and know what the family is going through.

[EMT/FF99]

It was me that said that it was wrong. This is why my husband and I have talked about living wills and are planning on getting one. If Mr. Schiavo wanted a normal life and not live alone for that long then he should have given the parent's of Terri the guardianship that they so much want. On March 1st of this year, they filed 11 counts of appeals one of which was a divorce petion seeking appointment of the legal guardian to act on the brain-damaged woman's behalf. They motion states that he has engaged in open adultery, and clearly Terri would not desire to die while married to Mr. Schiavo. You also have to understand that the parents are devoted Roman Catholics and abide by the beliefs of thier religion. One of which the Schiavo's were married under.

Quote from EMT/ff99- No matter what way we look at this, Not one here can truely understand what the family is going thru at this point in time, unless we have been down that same road ourselves.

You have a valid point. Knowing you the way that I do, your family has been through this. But on the reverse side because of religious belief's. So you know what it is like and know what the family is going through.
Yes I do kiddo. The decision we made at that time was extremely hard & very hard for all of us to make. Along with some of the family's religious beliefs made that moment even harder for all to deal with.

[EMT/FF115]

Let the poor woman go in peace!!!! Why make her live and suffer?????

[eastshoreoutlaw]

It was recently reported in the news media that Ms. Schiavo suffered from an eating disorder - bulimia (sic?) - that led to a potassium imbalance and a "cardiac event" that caused brain damage and her present condition. It's ironic that her parents would put forth such a struggle to keep her alive with a feeding tube now that there is no resonable hope that true daughter will ever return. Their real daughter died years ago and only the mortal shell still remains. I can't assign blame for Ms. Schiavo's condition to her parents or her husband - or completely to Ms. Schiavo herself: she did suffer from a psycological condition - but I still can't help but think this feeding tube removal is the continuation of the same course of action Ms. Schiavo began years ago, culminating when she "died" the first time. Let her die in peace.

[Chance Buckman]

Agree with Outlaw end the suffering let her go .

[crash_&_smash]

She died a long time ago. End the suffering

[Emtmom]

Here's my opinion: This woman has been kept alive by parents afraid to deal with the fact that she is dead. She shouldn't be in any discomfort at all from the lack of food and water, she is brain dead!!!
Living wills MAKE THEM, or your family could end up in this situation!

[No Fear]

Either way you look at it, someone going to hurt , someone going to lose.

[Chia6004]

This story pisses me off so much I was actually yelling at my captian about it, good thing were friends, The most insane irony about this shit is when you consider other similar instances in our history like this one. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3087387

Guess who was the governor of texas when this law was passed?

I swear he pisses me off more and more each day.

"It's sad this thing dragged on for so long. We all feel it's unfair, that a child doesn't have a chance to develop and thrive," said William Winslade, a bioethicist and lawyer who is a professor at the Institute for the Medical Humanities at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston. Paraphrasing the late Catholic theologian and ethicist Richard McCormick, Winslade added, "This isn't murder. It's mercy, and it's appropriate to be merciful in that way. It's not killing, it's stopping pointless treatment."

Ahhhhhhhhh :mad: GOD F**king ******

Phew ok, I'm in favor of euthanasia so I've said for the past four years that the tube should be removed. The damn parents, because of their inability to let go they are forcing there daughter to live in this hell. If something similar ever happened to me and my parents kept me alive for decades if I one day came out of it the first thing I would do is kick their ass for forcing me to survive like that. Its time for the parents to put their daughters needs ahead of their emotions.

Like I said this story pisses me off so bad I can hardly think striaght. So pardon the babel and typos.

[Emtmom]

Heard at 6 a.m. that legislation was passed. Terry's sister said she was glad they saved her sisters life. Do these people NOT understand what brain dead means? Looks like my local news got it wrong, here's the AP story!


Fate of Terri Schiavo Rests With Judge

10 minutes ago U.S. National - AP


By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - The fate of Terri Schiavo once again was in the hands of a judge early Monday following an extraordinary, day-long political fight over the brain-damaged woman that consumed both chambers of Congress and prompted the president to rush back to the White House.


House GOP Calls Session on Schiavo Case
(AP Video)



Taking the Senate's lead, the House early Monday passed a bill to let the woman's parents ask a federal judge to prolong Schiavo's life by reinserting her feeding tube. President Bush (news - web sites) signed the measure less than an hour later.


An attorney for her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, later arrived at federal district court in Tampa and filed a request for an emergency injunction to keep their daughter fed.


When the attorney, David Gibbs II, was asked if he had any indication when the judge would rule on the request, he said: "I have no way to know, just that it's in the hands of the court."


Outside the hospice where his daughter entered her fourth day without food or water, Bob Schindler told reporters "I'm numb, I'm just totally numb. This whole thing, it's hard to believe it."


Schiavo's husband, Michael Schiavo, said he was outraged that congressional leaders were intervening in the contentious right-to-die battle. He has battled for years with his wife's parents over whether she should be permitted to die or kept alive through the feeding tube.


"I think that the Congress has more important things to discuss," he told CNN, calling the move political and criticizing House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who helped broker the congressional compromise.


Outside the hospice, a shout of joy when news of the House bill's passage came. Among those cheering was David Bayly, 45, of Toledo, Ohio: "I'm overjoyed to see the vote and see Terri's life extended by whatever amount God gives her."


When dawn broke Monday, less than a dozen demonstrators remained at the hospice, but the area bustled with television lights, cameras and reporters covering the saga.


The 41-year-old woman's feeding tube was removed Friday on a Florida judge's order. Schiavo could linger for one or two weeks if the tube is not reinserted — as has happened twice before, once on a judge's order and once after Gov. Jeb Bush passed "Terri's Law," which was later declared unconstitutional.


George Felos, a lawyer for Michael Schiavo, did not return repeated phone messages seeking comment Monday. The voicemail box of George Greer, the Florida circuit judge who presides over the case, was full and didn't accept messages.


Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly because of a chemical imbalance. She can breathe on her own, but has relied on the feeding tube to keep her alive.


Court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery. Her husband says she would not want to be kept alive in that condition, but her parents insist she could recover with treatment.


Bob Schindler visited his daughter late Sunday and said he noticed the effects of dehydration on her. He said she appeared to be getting tired, but eventually responded to his teasing by making a face at him.


"It tells us she's still with us," he said.


Brian Schiavo, Michael's brother, said he spent Sunday afternoon with his brother and Terri at the hospice, but Terri did not move or make any noises. "Anybody that thinks that she talks and responds, they need to have a mental health examination," he said.


The bill passed in Congress applies only to Schiavo and would allow a federal court to review the case. The House passed the bill on a 203-58 vote early Monday after calling lawmakers back for an emergency Sunday session. The Senate approved the bill Sunday by voice vote.





"In cases like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life," President Bush said in a statement after signing the bill.

A crowd of about 50 people prayed and sang outside the hospice on Sunday. One man played "Amazing Grace" on a trumpet, as a pickup truck pulled a trailer bearing 10-foot-high replicas of the stone Ten Commandments tablets and a huge working version of the Liberty Bell.

Gov. Bush, praised the actions of Congress. "We in government have a duty to protect the weak, disabled and vulnerable," he said in a statement Monday. "I appreciate the efforts of state and federal lawmakers on both sides of the aisle who have taken this duty to heart."

[EMT/FF99]

I know I seen it somewhere in here before (Or maybe wasnt using my bifocals correctly then),,but her feeding tube was pulled out & left completely out, it would or could this young lady up to 2 weeks to die correct? If so, wouldn't this fall under Cruel Humanity? Granted she is suffering now being in a veg state, but pulling a feeding tube out & "waiting" like a hungry pack of wolves for her to die is even more cruel in my eyes. (Please dont get me wrong)

My family had to deal with a matter something close to 10 years ago, with my then 13 yr old nephew. He lived 5 days on Life Support after his accident, the whole family was brought together on seperate occassions to make the descision of whether or not to have everything shut down. However, as stated before (in an earlier post here) due to some religious conflicts between family members, my nephew was kept on Life Support for 2 extra days. Descisions such as this is very rough on all involved without any shadow of a doubt, it will continue to rough for all family members involved years to come after she is gone.

[Emtmom]

Once a person is brain dead, they should not be suffering. Both family and Drs. have said she has no reaction to any stimuli, which means to me she is feeling nothing. I don't see how she could suffer from this. I think it is her family just being afraid to let go. Have people come out of comas.....YES, but NEVER a brain dead patient. For some reason her family is under the impression that she is just going to wake up and be fine some day. It's not going to happen and hopefully this judge will get the information he needs from medical professionals to make the right decision and let this poor woman go.
If she were only in a coma, with brain activity then I would agree that it would be inhumane to pull the feeding tube.

[STEALTH MODE]

Once a person is brain dead, they should not be suffering. Both family and Drs. have said she has no reaction to any stimuli, which means to me she is feeling nothing. I don't see how she could suffer from this..

Ok MOM, now I'm confused - I'm actually not up to par in this area, but The first TWO sentances of your words - "they should not be suffering, no reaction to any stimuli, feeling nothing..."
Everyone keeps saying over and over again "let the poor woman go, END HER SUFFERING..." My question: If she is brain dead and feels nothing, how can SHE be suffering?
Is that what you meant by your third line? I'm confused... Is this woman actually suffering (since she is in fact brain dead), or is it just her family suffering?
In NO way throwing stones at ya MOMMY (you know that) - wondering if you are asking the same question as me... I really am confused on who is doing the suffering... :confused:

[Emtmom]

Ok MOM, now I'm confused - I'm actually not up to par in this area, but The first TWO sentances of your words - "they should not be suffering, no reaction to any stimuli, feeling nothing..."
Everyone keeps saying over and over again "let the poor woman go, END HER SUFFERING..." My question: If she is brain dead and feels nothing, how can SHE be suffering?
Is that what you meant by your third line? I'm confused... Is this woman actually suffering (since she is in fact brain dead), or is it just her family suffering?
In NO way throwing stones at ya MOMMY (you know that) - wondering if you are asking the same question as me... I really am confused on who is doing the suffering... :confused:
Yes that is what I meant by the third line. I'd say it's her family suffering, and for some reason wanting to hang on. I can't understand how anyone can think she is suffering if she is unresponsive to any type of stimuli.

[STEALTH MODE]

Yes that is what I meant by the third line. I'd say it's her family suffering, and for some reason wanting to hang on. I can't understand how anyone can think she is suffering if she is unresponsive to any type of stimuli.
Ok, that's what I was looking for - kept seeing all the "end HER suffering" stuff and was confused - thanks! :o

[emtfff129057]

Once a person is brain dead, they should not be suffering. Both family and Drs. have said she has no reaction to any stimuli, which means to me she is feeling nothing.


Mom,

The family is stating that she does have stimuli. She does have eye movement which last I knew that was some sort of stimuli.

This is quoted from the MSN news site.

Bob Schindler visited his daughter late Sunday and said he noticed the effects of dehydration on her. He said she appeared to be getting tired, but eventually responded to his teasing by making a face at him.

Okay, he states that she made a face at him. I am not sure what kind of brain activity tells you to make a face. I am no brain surgen. But from the videos that I have seen, she does move her eyes. Her husband states that she has no response to him what so ever.

[Emtmom]

Mom,

The family is stating that she does have stimuli. She does have eye movement which last I knew that was some sort of stimuli.

This is quoted from the MSN news site.

Bob Schindler visited his daughter late Sunday and said he noticed the effects of dehydration on her. He said she appeared to be getting tired, but eventually responded to his teasing by making a face at him.

What it does not state is what kind of response. But from the videos that I have seen, she does move her eyes. Her husband states that she has no response to him what so ever.In past interviews and in court her family has reported no response even to painful stimuli. Her BIL said he spent the day there Sunday and saw NO reactions to anything. Her eye movement could be involuntary, that would not be unheard of. I've seen her parents website, and the fact that they have spent all this money on lawyers and court costs. I also saw that they put the 1.8 million her husband has from a malpractice suit on Terry's behalf. As though he is sittng high on the hog with this money, I would assume, he is paying for her care with that money. I maybe wrong, but just what does the money have to do with whether or not she should be kept alive in a vegetative state?
If there is a credable Dr. who says he can help Terry, and she can recover, why are the judges not listening to this Dr? In all these years of court babttles, why has a judge at least not ordered for her to have this miracle therapy that her family says can cure her? So her family can have thier daughter/sister back, it would seem to me that would be the least they could do.
It's still my opinion that this family is afraid to face the truth, and afraid to let go.

[emtfff129057]

In past interviews and in court her family has reported no response even to painful stimuli. Her BIL said he spent the day there Sunday and saw NO reactions to anything. Her eye movement could be involuntary, that would not be unheard of. I've seen her parents website, and the fact that they have spent all this money on lawyers and court costs. I also saw that they put the 1.8 million her husband has from a malpractice suit on Terry's behalf. As though he is sittng high on the hog with this money, I would assume, he is paying for her care with that money. I maybe wrong, but just what does the money have to do with whether or not she should be kept alive in a vegetative state?
If there is a credable Dr. who says he can help Terry, and she can recover, why are the judges not listening to this Dr? In all these years of court babttles, why has a judge at least not ordered for her to have this miracle therapy that her family says can cure her? So her family can have thier daughter/sister back, it would seem to me that would be the least they could do.
It's still my opinion that this family is afraid to face the truth, and afraid to let go.

I do agree with you about the doctor. According to the fox news network, the money has been used for her care and for the legal fees. They reported that there was about 40-50 k left in that from the malpractice suit. But in another article I read, the care facility that her body lives in has let her reside there for free. So I have no idea which one is right.

Someone else has stated, and I can't remember who it was, a very good point. Terri was self mutilating herself, with the eating disorder. The heart attach (according to doctors) was a result of a potassium chemical disorder and she was with out oxygen for 5 minutes. She was dead then. It is really ironic that all this stuff going on to keep her alive with the feeding and liquid tubes when 15-16 years ago she was killing herself slowly by either not eating or binging and vomitting (depending on which disorder she had) What efforts were done then?

[Emtmom]

I do agree with you about the doctor. According to the fox news network, the money has been used for her care and for the legal fees. They reported that there was about 40-50 k left in that from the malpractice suit. But in another article I read, the care facility that her body lives in has let her reside there for free. So I have no idea which one is right.

Someone else has stated, and I can't remember who it was, a very good point. Terri was self mutilating herself, with the eating disorder. The heart attach (according to doctors) was a result of a potassium chemical disorder and she was with out oxygen for 5 minutes. She was dead then. It is really ironic that all this stuff going on to keep her alive with the feeding and liquid tubes when 15-16 years ago she was killing herself slowly by either not eating or binging and vomitting (depending on which disorder she had) What efforts were done then?So true and all so sad, I really do feel for the family, I just think it's time they let go.

I know I'm warped, but does anyone else wonder if the judge who has the case now is putting off the date for a week, just for time to read the court papers?

[mohican]

On topic: I'm sure there would be more sympathy for the hubby if he wasn't perceived as slime. Year's ago, I worked with a guy whose wife was in a coma as a result of a car crash. He when he finally started seeing some other women, he got kinda twisted inside, but he didn't let go for quite some time. Of course, I'd say let the Terry Schiavo's husband make the choice. But it looks bad for him, wife gets hurt, collect settlement and malpractice money, try to pull the plug and get a new honey.

Starting to drift - Congress really stepped out of bounds even considering this, let alone acting on this. Just because the courts have ignored separation of powers, doesn't mean the legislative body has to. This is a bad precedent.

Full thread drift - When I was a kid, people, and especially people I went to church with thought that to keep someone alive like this was playing God. When something like this happened, you prayed about it, sucked it up, and put it into the hands of God. One way or the other, Gos's will be done. Now that the baby boomer generation is the older/"ruling" generation in these churches, there is a lot of reluctance to be unplugged. Perhaps a subconscious fear of their mortality is making them change the way "conservative" churches view this subject. This is not an issue that I would write to my congresscritter about. If the subject bothers you enough to write you rep or senator, maybe you should take the time to clearly put your own affairs into order so that if you go partially, you're family isn't subjected to this macabre tug of war.

I know that to some degree we are talking about life and death here, but to fan the flames to this degree, some people themselves must be in a persistive vegatative state.

[Mad Co Citizen]

Ready for this, Chia...

G Dubs has f'ed up. The effort to keep the body of this woman operating is a disgrace. The buck stops at our president because he signed the legislation. Big mistake, period.

The woman has NO brain function, period. The family is incapable of accepting that she is gone. It is a shame and I feel for everyone, but it is time to come to reality and quit making this a political battleground...that is what this is now.

Basically, the Pres and congress has stepped all over Florida law. If I was the Florida legislature, I would send the President a bill for the medical expenses. This matter has been decided over and over again in the courts. Five doctors agreed on this matter and the court ruled, but politics has led us down a path that is dangerous.

I with you on this one, Chia.

[Emtmom]

TAMPA (AP) -- A federal judge on Tuesday refused to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request from the brain-damaged woman's parents.

The ruling by U.S. District Judge James Whittemore comes after feverish action by President Bush and Congress on legislation allowing her contentious case to be reviewed by federal courts.

The judge said the 41-year-old woman's parents had not established a "substantial likelihood of success" at trial on the merits of their arguments.

Rex Sparklin, an attorney with the law firm representing Terri Schiavo's parents, said lawyers were immediately appealing to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta to "save Terri's life."

The tube was disconnected Friday on the orders of a state judge, prompting an extraordinary weekend effort by congressional Republicans to push through unprecedented emergency legislation early Monday aimed at keeping her alive. Schiavo did not have a living will.

Her husband, Michael Schiavo, has fought in courts for years to have the tube removed because he said she would not want to be kept alive artificially and she has no hope for recovery.

Her parents contend she responds to them and her condition could improve.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved)

[Rackin A Round]

I think that congress really should have stayed out of this one...but remember, this is how we get our new laws...someone screws something up or there is an argument about something or another and laws get passed, no matter what it is about. I am not saying that this is right, just how it is.


Personally, I think it is the parents decision on whether or not to pull the plug. They have known her longer, they know more about her...Would you want to decide or let your son or daughter in law decide while they collect the money and get a new spouse....hell he isn't even the son in-law anymore! He has nothing to do with the family other than once being married into it! How does he have the authority to make crucial decisions???

[Mags]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet...correction to the original post...she is not brain dead. She is very aware of her surroundings, she perks up and attempts to talk and communicate when family is there, with the exception of her husand, that monster wants her written off, he no longer wishes to handle the burden that her life now takes on, so he just wants to kill her. Its murder plain and simple and you bleedig heart liberals should see that..wait a sec you are the people who like to kill babies sorry. Anyway she is unable to swallow that is why she needs the g-tube she is not brain dead and is not on life support (which you get put on when you're brain dead) She knows what her asshole husband wants to do and thats why she ignores him. Removing that tube is inhumane and cruel, no gov't should even have to be involved its unethical, the tube should be reinserted and her husband thrown in jail. :mad:

[rescue90]

I just don't understand, why, if her parents are willing to take care of her, this tool keeps on insisting to pull the plug.

[Emtmom]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet...correction to the original post...she is not brain dead. She is very aware of her surroundings, she perks up and attempts to talk and communicate when family is there, with the exception of her husand, that monster wants her written off, he no longer wishes to handle the burden that her life now takes on, so he just wants to kill her. Its murder plain and simple and you bleedig heart liberals should see that..wait a sec you are the people who like to kill babies sorry. Anyway she is unable to swallow that is why she needs the g-tube she is not brain dead and is not on life support (which you get put on when you're brain dead) She knows what her asshole husband wants to do and thats why she ignores him. Removing that tube is inhumane and cruel, no gov't should even have to be involved its unethical, the tube should be reinserted and her husband thrown in jail. :mad: OK, I did see this morning that they say severly brain damaged and not brain dead. BUT, answer this, WHY has no judge given an order for her to have this "therapy" if the Dr and her family are so POSITIVE it will bring her back? Do the judges all want to kill her? OR has the family and this ONE DR., NOT have proof that all the other Drs. are wrong? WHY, is her family fighting so hard to stop her from being "starved to death", when her starving HERSELF is what put her where she is now, in the condition she is in? Also, what makes everyone think that her HUSBAND, YES he is STILL her husband, wants her dead so he can use her money? He has been using it, for her care and for her court battle! HOW do you know that HE is not trying to fulfill HER WISHES? If she was such a devote catholic girl, why was she starving herself? WHY did she not turn to her religion, to God, or her priest? WHY, did her family NOT fight for her then? NONE of us knows the answers to any of these questions, and we will never know. Do we know what she is actually responding too, NO and we will never know that either. This decision by her husband was not some decision he made on his own. HE DID NOT REMOVE THE FEEDING TUBE! Terry's Drs. have given their prognosis, and he took thier advisment, and decided what he said Terry told him. Do you disbelieve him because he has dealt with the facts? Something her family refuses to do? It's been 20 years, this woman will NEVER be Terry again, and I understand how difficult that must be for her family. But, at some point they need to deal with this tragedy.
Living Wills...they are so important!!!!!
Sometimes we have to make decisions in life that we do not want to make. BUT, we know it's the right thing to do, and we know it's what that person wants. Should I have taken the Drs. to court when my mom was dying, for not treating her? Shoud I have taken over for her, knowing that she had alzheimers? NO, why, because I KNEW she did not want to be here any longer, I knew she was NOT herself. I KNEW the pain she was in, and not just the pain from her cancer, but, the pain of being without my dad, the pain of slowly forgetting all of us, of slowly forgetting who she was! Does that make me or my brother a murderer?????
This is NOT directed at you Mags, or any one person, it's general questions for anyone to jump on in and feel free to poke at.

[Mad Co Citizen]

Mags,

So the 5 doctors (acting for the state court) that ruled her brain dead/terminal were wrong and you are right? The law of the state of Florida means nothing to you?

BTW, I am not a liberal...ask anyone on here. I support my president in just about everything else...except this. He has pulled a bonehead move and is pushing away the middle...that may be why there was so much bipartisanship here, combined with the fact that all pretty much knew how this would go. The only rule of law that really could be decided is whether or not Terri has received due process. Judging from the amount of litigation, how could someone say that she has not?

Irregardless, the fact is that she IS brain dead. Have you seen her CT scan? Have you participated in any active MRI or any other test done to look at brain activity? The fact is that when she WAS on the life support, the family SHOULD have pulled the plug. Instead, the body healed and the brain stem took over. That does NOT mean that she is viable. I would think that YOU would know that!?!?

Her impulses - e.g. following balloons, etc. - is common in cases such as hers. She does NOT attempt to talk...she can't. Her facial movements are also common in these cases, impulses from nerves that are not being controlled by "her". The actions of her body, as described and shown in the video, are consistent with the prognosis. If you would bother to do the research, you would realize that her condition is terminal...afterall, the Florida courts explored this over and over again, with many doctors coming to the same conclusion. Yes, it is apparent that there is a doctor or two that may disagree..but name ANY condition where if you look hard enough you cannot find one doctor to disagree...just like everything else in life.

I know nothing of her husband. Do you know him? You are basing your asshole comment on the information you got from reports of him wanting money, the fact he has kids with another woman, etc. I even heard the statement that in some states, that would be considered bigomy. So what does the law of Florida say? Afterall, other state laws DO NOT APPLY!! The husband has moved on and I cannot blame him. He has been fighting for what he says is what Terri wanted. I have no reason to not believe him but, yes...no one knows!!! I still say a polygraph test could help resolve this. I will say that if he IS lying, then the parents should be put as guardian, but once again...no evidence.

Terri has received due process from the state of Florida...and now, again, by the lower federal court. But it is not good enough for some. The right (this is an argument I make sometimes, too) is doing exactly what it criticizes the left for doing so often...if you don't like the court/law, take to the streets. Right?

[Rackin A Round]

Personally, I would not want to live like that either, but my issue is the way they are letting this poor woman die. where is the humanity in that? Where is everyone's heart and feeling for how she supposidly feels???? do you honestly believe that she will not notice that they are killing her off? You don't think that she will notice they are no longer giving her food or water? You think that? If you are going to talk about her suffering and not wanting to live like this anymore, you must realize that she does have at least some feelings right? Feelings of sorrow, hopelessness, etc.? Why not feelings of betrayal? Why not feelings of thirst? Why not feelings of hunger? Assisted suicide is illegal, but how is it looked upon to let someone die by not giving them the proper nurishment? I only wonder how those doctors can keep their certifications. Malnuishment in the hospital, what a wonderful headline that would make.

[Mad Co Citizen]

Rescue9,

Because the husband says that is what she wanted, period. Would you want your body to be maintained with zero chance of consciousness?

[Mad Co Citizen]

Rackin,

No, I do not believe she knows these things or feels what is going on...based on the medical evidence and the knowledge available on the brain.

If it were me, I would want an overdose of morphine to make it go quick...for the benefit of my family. The way they are letting her die is depressing, I agree.

The fact is that none of us know the real story, and this is the first time that I can honestly say that Fox News is NOT acting fair and balanced. The reports are tainted (my opinion) and the over-the-top commentary by Sean Hannity has grown annoying. He makes it hard (though I do) to respect his views!!!

One more thing, the comparison of Terri's condition with a baby (who cannot feed itself also) is stupid, period.

Some of us are not thinking of the ramifications of this, also. What if this case results in Terri's tube being reinserted and never taken out? Who pays? The number of situations like hers will increase...and once again, who pays? Do not spin this paragraph - I do NOT believe money is more important than life, but when life is already gone.....

My opinion is that when the public starts paying, the public (through state appointed doctor panels) decides the fate. I believe that the British do something like this.

[Rackin A Round]

If it were me, I would want an overdose of morphine to make it go quick...for the benefit of my family. The way they are letting her die is depressing, I agree.

That is the main point that I am attempting to make here! This is a much better way to go than starving to death. Malnurishment is inhumane, how could they do that?

[emtfff129057]

That is the main point that I am attempting to make here! This is a much better way to go than starving to death. Malnurishment is inhumane, how could they do that?


You say that Malnurishment is inhumane. isn't that what she was doing to herself when she was slowly dieing as a result of the eating disorder.

I ask again. If her family are so worried about her "starving to death", why didn't they intervine 15-16-17 years ago?

Doctors say she is severely brain-damaged and has no chance of recovery in her persistent vegitative state. A CAT scan made several years ago indicates that her cerebral cortex, the upper part of the brain, has largely atrophied and been replaced by spinal fluid. Doctors say the damaged part of her brain also is the part that feels pain.

If her cerebral cortex has atrophied meaning to waste away or deteriorate, there is no part of her brain that feels pain. She is not in pain. She is not suffering. My point of view is that if you pinch her, she is not going to say ouch, stop that like we would with working a cerebral cortex.

Almost everyone has said that they would not want to go on living like that but then some in the same post say that it is wrong for the husband to make that decision with the knowledge of what the Dr's have said and with the knowledge of Terri telling him and others years ago that she would not want any form of life support. The tubes are just that. Life Support. The tubes are what are keeping her soul here on earth. The husband has every right to make that kind of decision. The courts appointed him as her power of attorney. If, lord forbid, something happened to me before our living will's were in place, I would want my husband to make that decision, even if my parents did not agree. And my husband has stated that he would want me to do the same.

[STEALTH MODE]

Politically, Medically, Humanly, Emotionally, Deathly, Unfortunately... Bottom line: SAD! :(

[EMT/FF99]

Sound almost close to or familiar to what is currently going on??


Man at center of life support fight transferred to San Antonio hospital:

ABC13 Eyewitness News
(3/20/05 - HOUSTON) — The life support fight over Spiro Nikolouzos, 68, is over. He made his way from Houston to San Antonio on Sunday, where he will live out the rest of this life. His wife has some choice words for St. Luke’s Hospital, but that hospital is defending its actions.

Jannette Nikolouzos has been fighting for weeks to keep St. Luke's Hospital from pulling the plug on her husband's life support. She got her wish on Sunday, but still says St. Luke's tried to execute her husband. St. Luke's says that's simply not true.
"Free at last, free at last, you didn't get to kill him," Jannette said.

Jannette is grateful that she's won the battle to keep her husband Spiro alive. Spiro Nikolouzos, 68, has been in a vegetative state since 2001. He developed complications with his feeding tube last month, and was put on life support at St. Luke's Hospital. But under state law, St. Luke's ethics committee decided to remove the life support, after determining further treatment would have been inhumane and futile.

Dr. David Pate, St. Luke's Chief Medical Officer, explained, "The state of his brain injury is so severe that we can't fix him."

Nikolouzos' wife fought the decision in court, and won -- getting a restraining order until she found another facility to take in her husband.

"They wanted him to die in this hospital, and wanted a funeral home to come and pick his body up," said Jannette. "Well, St. Luke's, your ethics committee, all of you, you didn't get your wish, right."

"It's very hurtful to hear, because this has never been an issue about wanting to take him off life support, let alone... executing him," Dr. Pate insisted.

Nikolouzos was loaded into an ambulance at St. Luke's Hospital Sunday morning and transferred to a nursing home in San Antonio, called Avalon Place. The facility did not want to comment on the transfer, but Nikolouzos has these words for St. Luke's.

"The hand of God is with Spiro. Don't ever try to fight the hand of God," Jannette warned.

Dr. Pate said, "If God wants the patient to survive, the patient's going to survive. And if God doesn't want the patient to survive, the patient's not going to survive, despite what I do. So God constantly reminds me who's in charge."

St. Luke's Hospital says it's glad to hear Spiro Nikolouzos has found a place to keep him on life support. Nikolouzos will remain hooked up to a ventilator 24 hours a day at his new nursing home.

[Mad Co Citizen]

If Ms. Nikolouzos has the cash, I say great! The only question that remains is who pays. If she can afford it, then I have no problem. If the cost burden shifts, then so should the decision-making. Just my opinion.

Update on Terri...that's TWO federal court decisions within 48 hours, confirming that she has received due process from the legal system in Florida.

[Emtmom]

I read an article on the AP yesterday that I found quite interesting.

Did you all know that when GW was Gov. of Texas he signed a law in that allows DRS. to decide when it's ok to cut off life support efforts? Then as Pres. he signs a law that is damn near the opposite, what exactly is that?
So now there is a mother, who is asking that question, after Drs. in Texas shut off her baby's life support, against her wishes. WHY, because of the law G.W. BUSH signed in as Gov.!!
I'm still looking for the article can't seem to find it this morning. One of Congress did bring it up during the debate of the new law.

[STEALTH MODE]

The most insane irony about this shit is when you consider other similar instances in our history like this one. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3087387
Guess who was the governor of texas when this law was passed?

Yeah, haven't read the URL here, but I assume that was what CHIA was talking about, same thing... SUCKS!

[Emtmom]

This was posted by a nurse on an iVillage board, it should help people know that Terry is NOT suffering! And that her husband did what he could to help her! Remember she was in this state for 8 years, before he decided it was time to let her go.

"There isn't any insurance money to be had. Plus, he (her husband) was offered a million dollars if he would let her parents take custody, and he refused it.

Pulling the feeding tube, is actually the most humane thing to do. Contrary to the belief many non-healthcare people have, she would not be hungry or thirsty. When allowed to follow the natural course of dying, the body shuts down, and the person does not experience what you or I would feel if deprived of food or water. The body does it's own preparation for completing the circle of life. Her CT scan, shows she doesn't have a cerebral cortex. There's nothing there! Everything you see her do, comes from brainstem activity, and is not purposeful in any way. The videos her parents made are deceptive. I'm not going into the details as to why I'm saying that, but if you really study the one that gets shown, you'll notice how her mother manipulates the scene to show what she wants it to show. If you want me to spell it out, just ask, and I will. I've taken care of many patients in Terri's condition, and with experience you learn to notice certain characteristics."

This is her second post replying to a person who said Terry's husband wants her dead and doesn't care about her.

"It amazes me, how many people don't, or don't want to, see Terri's true situation. Terri's husband spent the first few years, doing everything in his power to help her. The nursing home was even considering getting a restraining order on him, because he demanded so much care for Terri, they claimed they didn't have the staff to care for other patients. He insisted she be dressed, and made-up daily, as he thought that would help. Hardly the actions of a man who doesn't care!

One poster insists Terri is smiling, (which she isn't), and that should be enough proof that she is functional. Another person, absolutely insists, it's all Michael's fault. She's sure he abused her. There will always be people that will blame him, despite all of the proof to the contrary. He has even been receiving death threats! How sad. As a couple of people here have said, unless you are familiar with the physiology of what is going on, you can't make an accurate assessment of the situation"

The first post shows that Terry will NOT suffer from the feeding tube being removed.

[crash_&_smash]

I heard on the news today (I think it was CNN) that 19 separate Judges rules in favor of the husband. 19 times? Wouldn’t this just be an abuse of the legal system?

[RmeFeuerMädchen]

Ok, guys, please do not think I am cold and heartless, but c'mon. Is all of this really necessary. Yes, I feel for her and her family, but isnt this about time to let go and let God? Seriously, what do you think her soul is going through. This is why souls are bitter. It needs to be released and not restrained. Everyone has their own opinions of the afterlife, but I tink she is prepared for it by now. Can you imagine the torment she feels not being able to move on? Also her husband is the "legal" guardian, right? I dont know much about legalities, but I think that should count for something. But here is my main gripe. And thank you, Emtmom, I really did not know all of that medical mumbo jumbo. It helped clear up alot as I was starting to fall for their little tricks. How would my opinion be as strong without your technical knowledge? ;) So, if she is not suffering, where is the problem? Is it that necessary that special sessions are called over this. Apparantly, not they are ready to play "God", yet Church and state were already seperated. Now we are playing the "This is an ethical issue and not politically driven and how can we live iith ourselves" game. I understand time is of the essence, but there are how many other people living in the US?

What about all of these troops out in Iraq and other countries dying every day? Does GW care about them? He put them there. I dont want to start a big fight about the purpose of the war, but you have to ask yourself, what are we there for? What did Iraq do to us? GW, does not care about all of these promising lives. He doesn't want us to know how many people are dying over there. How many of you know that we took out like 80 terrorists at a training camp today, probably not many.

What about all of these children starving to death every night. No, not in Africa, but in OUR OWN UNITED STATES??? Where is the compassion and sessions of Congress for them?

Maybe I am desensitized, but all of this seems way out of proportion. Thank you for letting me vent. Have a nice day! :)

[Mad Co Citizen]

Here we go again....

"I dont want to start a big fight about the purpose of the war, but"

What kind of statement is that? Anything that follows the word "but" should be stricken from TWD!!!!

Saying that Bush does not care about the soldiers is completely unsubstantiated. Plus you are wrong!!

If I want to know how many soldiers have died, I would just pick up a newspaper. Where do you get that Bush does not want us to know?

I am very aware that our soldiers executed a successful mission today...what is your point?

Fair and Balanced? Not with respect to this case.
I will not give my view on the war because I have already given it (right, Chia?).

Back on topic...

The courts and legislatures are fully awware of the fact that this case has already been settled properly...the Supreme Court already has said that they do not want to hear it. The only option (according to Fox News) is Jeb Bush to take custody of Terri. Unbelievable. If he does this, they should transport her to HIS house and make HIM pay for the care.

Also, I heard another preacher on Fox say that "if we let Terri starve, then I guess we should let all babies starve also, since they cannot feed themselves either". What an ignorant statement. Anyone who says this is a wacko in my book...trying to push the pro-life agenda, plain and simple.

[Chia6004]

"Here we go again....

"I dont want to start a big fight about the purpose of the war, but"

What kind of statement is that? Anything that follows the word "but" should be stricken from TWD!!!!"

Saying that Bush does not care about the soldiers is completely unsubstantiated. Plus you are wrong!!

I agree with mad co the war has no place in this argument, the life support issues in Texas however do.

Oh BTW mad co can I prove that Bush doesn't care about the troops no I have never heard him say as much, but his actions bring up the question do they not? I mean its obvious he doesn't doesn't care about public servants.

Fair and Balanced? Not with respect to this case.
I will not give my view on the war because I have already given it (right, Chia?).

Aint that a fact.

Back on topic...

The courts and legislatures are fully awware of the fact that this case has already been settled properly...the Supreme Court already has said that they do not want to hear it. The only option (according to Fox News) is Jeb Bush to take custody of Terri. Unbelievable. If he does this, they should transport her to HIS house and make HIM pay for the care.

I agree, make the other Bush front the bill.

Also, I heard another preacher on Fox say that "if we let Terri starve, then I guess we should let all babies starve also, since they cannot feed themselves either". What an ignorant statement. Anyone who says this is a wacko in my book...trying to push the pro-life agenda, plain and simple.

You weren't expecting logic from someone on Fox News were you mad?

[STEALTH MODE]

Yeah, gonna thank you too MOM - don't understand ANY of the medical mumbo jumbo - thanks for clearing all that up for me! Sad in any language, but I like your version WAY better (medical mumbo jumbo for Dummies)! Thanks! :o

[No Fear]

Here we are talking about a young woman lying on her death bed with legal issues involving the girl's husband and parents and as usual Chia and Mad Co got to bring the same shit up again about Bush, who he cares for and who he doesn't. I can assure you Chia that any President of the United States cares about our armed forces and public servants. That being said, I like to get back on the topic of this thread. I strongly believe that politics should not have gotten involved on this issue at all. It should end in the court of law. See Chia sometimes I don't agree with Bush, especially on this issue. I am torn in different directions on this issue. As a parent, just like any other parent, they want to hold on to their children as long as they possibly can, hoping for a chance that their daughter would recover. I see this young lady staring and smiling at her parents, I just don't know what I would do. Secondly as a husband would I want to see my wife in that state for so long. Its got to be painful to watch. I guess I would want her to pass away to allow her to rest in peace. Its just to hard to come up with a good answer. Either way , I guess we all can agree there are no winner in this.

Take care Be safe

[Mad Co Citizen]

No Fear,

I did not bring the Bush issue up this time....read the posts please. RmeFeuerMädchen brought it up and I DID try to get back on topic. Having said that, the rest of your post is where alot of Americans sit on this issue too. I think all of us would love to hear that she starts talking or gets out of bed, but that will not happen in this case...sad no matter what the outcome is.

Chia,

I expect accurate information from all sides from Fox News, which they have not done on this issue, specifically. Sean Hannity (a commentator) can say what he wants and I can turn him off, but when the news is reported, it must be well-rounded. I have no problem with them showing that information, as long as they seek out the other side, which they have not in this case.

Let's put off the other portion of your post so No Fear will quit whining!

[No Fear]

Mad Cow your the only one that whines with your and Chia political Bullshit all the time, Like I said before Hannity and Colmes want a bees

[Mad Co Citizen]

ok. But please note that I DID try to get back to this topic and I did NOT go deep into the political BS on this thread. I responded in a limited fashion, correct? Plus, I am criticizing Hannity and do NOT want to be like him. Having said that, I agree that the thread you are referring to got annoying (this IS TWD, afterall) and I probably deserved the comment.

Back on topic...again...

The Supreme Court says no...no surprise. It has been reported that in the early years of Terri's condition, the husband was extremely pushy in getting her care AND that the two families had a great relationship. He is now being painted as an abusive person who does not care about her. It seems to me (not factual based) that the husband does care (he has nothing to gain - money all gone) and has realized that she is not coming back. It sounds like he has come to grips with the situation, unlike the family.

What happens if the State does take custody of her? This is an interesting question, because it seems as though either the state will have to either:

1. completely support (money and resources) to keeping her alive - this could set a precendent, right? - until she dies of something else,
2. take the tube out again (because the medical ethics professionals have stated that this is the way to terminate her life) if further tests show that she is terminal, or
3. turn her custody over to someone determined by the state - which could start all of this crap over again...afterall, the family and those supporting them are not going to give up.

Does anyone else see big problems with these scenarios?

[Emtmom]

POSTING AT 11:05:

Supreme Court Won't Hear Schiavo Case

11 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Thursday refused to order Terri Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted, rejecting a desperate appeal by her parents to keep their severely brain-damaged daughter alive.



The decision, announced in a terse one-page order, marked the end of a dramatic and disheartening four-day dash through the federal court system by Bob and Mary Schindler.


Justices did not explain their decision, which was at least the fifth time they have declined to get involved in the Schiavo case.


There was no indication of how the individual justices voted.


The feeding tube that has been keeping Schiavo alive at a hospice in Pinellas Park, Fla., was removed last Friday. Doctors at the time said that unless it is reinserted she will die in a week or two.


The Schindlers are continuing legal fights in federal and state courts in Florida, but the Supreme Court appeal was considered their best chance of getting her tube reconnected.


The high court's decision was the latest in a string of losses in state and federal courts for the Schindlers, who say their 41-year-old daughter faces an unjust and imminent death based on a decision by her husband to halt nourishment without proof of her consent.


The Schindlers' emergency high court filing also argued that Congress intended for Schiavo's tube to be reinserted, at least temporarily, when it passed an extraordinary bill last weekend giving federal courts authority to fully review her case.


In his response, Michael Schiavo urged justices not to intervene because his wife's case already has been endlessly litigated and at each turn courts have sided with him.


His filing also argued that Congress violated the Constitution when it passed the bill because the action was improperly intended to overturn state court rulings on the matter.


"That is not an exercise of legislative power, but trial by legislature," the filing said.


The Schindlers' appeal went first to Justice Anthony Kennedy (news - web sites), a Reagan appointee who has staked a moderate position on social issues. Kennedy has responsibility in the first instance for cases emanating from the Southern district that is home to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) in Atlanta. He referred the Schiavo case to the full nine-member court.


The court's decision was not surprising. Not only had justices repeatedly declined to intervene in the Schiavo case on prior occasions, but they routinely defer to state courts on family law issues. Judges in various Florida courts have sided with Schiavo's husband in the 15 years since she suffered brain damage.


The issue before the high court was whether Schiavo's tube should be reinserted while her case is fully reviewed in the lower courts.


Justices could have ruled in favor of the parents if they had found a "substantial likelihood" the Schindlers would win on the merits or that Congress intended for Schiavo to remain attached to a feeding tube during the federal court review called for in the bill passed last weekend.


The court could also have sided with the parents if, as the Justice Department (news - web sites) argued in a "statement of interest" in the case, a federal law known as the All Writs Act were interpreted to empower federal courts to temporarily grant the emergency request — regardless of the merits of the case — simply to protect their "jurisdiction."


The federal appellate court in Atlanta rejected those claims earlier Wednesday.





A three-judge panel ruled 2-1 that the parents "failed to demonstrate a substantial case on the merits of any of their claims" that Schiavo's feeding tube should be reinserted immediately. About 13 hours later, the full 12-member court voted to deny the parents' request to reconsider the ruling.

"It would be very difficult for Justice Kennedy or the full court to justify granting a stay compelling reinsertion after the full 11th Circuit denied a rehearing and where the basis for changing the status quo is so problematic," Laurence Tribe, a Harvard constitutional law professor, said before the court ruled.

The Supreme Court has ruled that a terminally ill person in a "persistent vegetative state" has a right to refuse life-sustaining treatment. But the 5-4 decision authored by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist also said that right was not unrestricted, holding that a state may impose a high legal burden on a family to show a patient had actually consented.

That 1990 ruling returned the case of Nancy Cruzan to Missouri state court, which eventually determined the comatose woman indeed had indicated she wanted to die as her parents argued.

[Emtmom]

Fla. Judges refuses to hear Jeb Bushes case for Terry:

CLEARWATER, Fla. - A state judge refused Thursday to hear Gov. Jeb Bush's arguments to take custody of Terri Schiavo, leaving the brain-damaged woman's parents with only the slimmest hopes in their fight to keep her alive.



Bush's request cited new allegations of neglect and challenges the diagnoses that Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state, but Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer wasn't convinced.


Greer's decision came hours after the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) refused to order her feeding tube reinserted. The decisions reduce chances for quick intervention to reconnect the tube, which was pulled last Friday. Doctors have said Schiavo, 41, likely would die in a week or two without nourishment.


Schiavo's husband, Michael, had urged the high court Thursday not to intervene, saying her case has been endlessly litigated and state courts have agreed with him that she would want to die.


The appeal by her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, was part of a rush of legal activity in the unprecedented right-to-die struggle. They have frantically tried to reconnect the tube because they deny Michael Schiavo's arguments that she has no hope for recovery and that she would not have wanted to live in such a state.

[hog]

it is a shame that we put death row inmates to sleep.....this woman didn`t do anything wrong and they are starving her to death?????????????makes you wonder

[STEALTH MODE]

it is a shame that we put death row inmates to sleep.....this woman didn`t do anything wrong and they are starving her to death?????????????makes you wonder
OH MY GOD - I AGREE WITH HOG... :eek:

[Chia6004]

"Here we are talking about a young woman lying on her death bed with legal issues involving the girl's husband and parents and as usual Chia and Mad Co got to bring the same shit up again about Bush, who he cares for and who he doesn't. I can assure you Chia that any President of the United States cares about our armed forces and public servants"

If you really can't see how this has bee turned into a poltical issue I feel for you. The right wing has made this a politcal issue, if you can't see the double standards that Bush is putting out I'm sorry.

Oh BTW, when you consider what has happened to public servants in the last 5 years, the fire act being, re-thought etc, I have serious reservations that he cares about us, you say he does I say he doesn't, the only difference is his actions back up my side of the argument.

Also I didn't bring up the Bush in this thread he out him self in when he trys to stick his nose somehwere it doesn't belong. Bush is linked in this argument and his history of "flip flopping" needs to be brought out.

"Chia,

I expect accurate information from all sides from Fox News, which they have not done on this issue, specifically. Sean Hannity (a commentator) can say what he wants and I can turn him off, but when the news is reported, it must be well-rounded. I have no problem with them showing that information, as long as they seek out the other side, which they have not in this case."

Fox news isn't news to me, I don't watch them, its more like the daily show for conservatives, only the daily show tells you that they're a fake news outlet.

[No Fear]

Chia , if your going to qoute me , please make sure you include the rest of my statement and not leave things out. Obviously you must have miss the part that I agreed with you 100% about Bush butting in on this issue. He has no place for this and should be ashame. I sure he wouldn't be doing this for the average Joe. So what did I say wrong there. Secondly, I would be more then glad to debate you about the fire act and whatever on a different thread, however I won't talk politics on a thread (unless it regards this thread, which I agree with you) that someone getting ready to died. That just not right.

Take Care Be Safe

[Chia6004]

I agree with you No Fear and I really have no clue why were going back and forth about this. Its disgusting that this has become a political issue.

Two more weeks and I add another specialty to my resume, I'm already US&R, bout to be a glow worm. :)

[DaFireMonster]

I agree with you No Fear and I really have no clue why were going back and forth about this. Its disgusting that this has become a political issue.

Two more weeks and I add another specialty to my resume, I'm already US&R, bout to be a glow worm. :)
Very disgusting that it has become a political issue!

[Mad Co Citizen]

Hog and Stealth...the answer is that the medical ethical experts have determined that this is the most humane way. I do not agree, as I have stated before...if this were me, just give me an overdose of morphine or something.

The political issue will not die with Terri...she will become a martyr...just my prediction. There will be a big push after this is over, mainly by religious groups, to overturn Rowe v Wade.

RE: Fox News...if you want to be on TV, take your family (including your young children), commit a crime and get arrested. Why is it that nobody is complaining about these parents, who are allowing (in their presence) their children to break the law? But leave it to the "Fair and Balanced" channel to put them on a pedstal.

I agree with Chia...G Dubs is being a little hypocritical, as he is not doing anything to overturn the Texas law that basically makes it EASIER in that state to remove a feeding tube.

[RmeFeuerMädchen]

No Fear,

I did not bring the Bush issue up this time....read the posts please. RmeFeuerMädchen brought it up and I DID try to get back on topic.

Sorry guys, that was my fault. I was just watching the news and starting to get ticked off. What I stated is my opinion, and you may or may not agree with it, but you dont have to. But, I will take the blame for the shifting off topic. Sorry about that and have a nice day!

[STEALTH MODE]

Hog and Stealth...
Umm, yeah MAD - can you not do that... again. It's making me all, ewww... stop. :rolleyes:

[STEALTH MODE]

Wouldn't it be MORE humane to give a lethal dose of something. I think MOM suggested earlier an overdose of morphine? It would be pain free (I know we are still going back and forth about the pain issue - IF there is pain) and very quick! Know what I mean? :confused:

[Mad Co Citizen]

Sorry, did you have a problem with the order of the names or just the fact that the two names were only separated by "and"??

[burning85]

i now feel more strongly that terry should live!!! the more things i hear about her husband the more i think her family should be able to make the decision!!! i am probably watching and getting the same info from the same places as most of you are... and i think it is just inhumane now to starve some one to death like that....her husband seems like a shady character and things just dont seem right with him....i really do hope the family wins this emergency appeal...if he doesnt want to deal with her anymore...leave her in her parents care...people who love her and want to keep her alive...the husband can move on with girlfriend and their kids...its hard to watch the videos and things...i work with a kid with cerebral palsy who is fed through a feeding tube....if his mother decided it was to much for her to deal with and quit feeding him and he died that would be murder!!! but the courts are basing terry's death on what her husband says she said...ummm hersay?? in any other kind of cases wouldnt that be irrelevent?? it hits harder to my heart now then before....it's just a sad sad thing .

[Emtmom]

i now feel more strongly that terry should live!!! the more things i hear about her husband the more i think her family should be able to make the decision!!! i am probably watching and getting the same info from the same places as most of you are... and i think it is just inhumane now to starve some one to death like that....her husband seems like a shady character and things just dont seem right with him....i really do hope the family wins this emergency appeal...if he doesnt want to deal with her anymore...leave her in her parents care...people who love her and want to keep her alive...the husband can move on with girlfriend and their kids...its hard to watch the videos and things...i work with a kid with cerebral palsy who is fed through a feeding tube....if his mother decided it was to much for her to deal with and quit feeding him and he died that would be murder!!! but the courts are basing terry's death on what her husband says she said...ummm hersay?? in any other kind of cases wouldnt that be irrelevent?? it hits harder to my heart now then before....it's just a sad sad thing .
If her husband is so bad, and doesn't want to deal with her, then why did he turn down the parents when they offered him a million dollars to give them custody? Why did he spend the first 5 years she was in the hosp. and the nursing home making sure she got every therapy and treatment he heard of? Why did he have her transported to Calif. for what he was told was miracluous treatment that could make her better? She was there for 7 years before he listened to what 9 Dr.s said, that there was no therapy or treatment that would ever help her. Terri's parents BACKED him for those 5 years, stood behind him, they were very close, until the day he decided the Drs. knew best. Now he is a heartless man who wants money and her dead. Now he has spent 8 years fighting her parents, because they have 1 count him 1 dr. who says she can be cured! If this Dr. has proof he can cure her, WHY in 8 years has not one judge ordered the therapy? Do the judges all want Terri dead, are they after a cut of the money too? Her husband has been using the money from the lawsuit for her care and the attorney's fees.

[burning85]

If her husband is so bad, and doesn't want to deal with her, then why did he turn down the parents when they offered him a million dollars to give them custody? Why did he spend the first 5 years she was in the hosp. and the nursing home making sure she got every therapy and treatment he heard of? Why did he have her transported to Calif. for what he was told was miracluous treatment that could make her better? She was there for 7 years before he listened to what 9 Dr.s said, that there was no therapy or treatment that would ever help her. Terri's parents BACKED him for those 5 years, stood behind him, they were very close, until the day he decided the Drs. knew best. Now he is a heartless man who wants money and her dead. Now he has spent 8 years fighting her parents, because they have 1 count him 1 dr. who says she can be cured! If this Dr. has proof he can cure her, WHY in 8 years has not one judge ordered the therapy? Do the judges all want Terri dead, are they after a cut of the money too? Her husband has been using the money from the lawsuit for her care and the attorney's fees.

its just the fact that...her wishes are heresay-no affidavites no witnesses just his word versus someone who can't speak words...it's not very fair...honestly dont u think its a bit odd that the issue of possible abuse against her by him came up and then so did his orders of immediate cremation after her death??? i just think there was no evidence strong enough for either actions!!!

[burning85]

i just stated my opinion just like youve stated yours...i wish not to go back n forth with it because there's just no sense...i just wanted to state my change in opinion.

[Emtmom]

its just the fact that...her wishes are heresay-no affidavites no witnesses just his word versus someone who can't speak words...it's not very fair...honestly dont u think its a bit odd that the issue of possible abuse against her by him came up and then so did his orders of immediate cremation after her death??? i just think there was no evidence strong enough for either actions!!!
I think it's terrible that her family is in such denial. This poor woman will never be Terri again, and her family can't let go of the hope that she will be whole again. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for them, but it's time they let her go. The nuerologist who is Terri's Dr. said there is NO chance of her ever recovering. There is a slight chance in the first few months, after that there is not.
If he were abusing her, the nursing home and the Drs. would know it.
Her family can always ask for a court order for an autopsy.
Remember also, he has had 8 years of fighting with her parents to come to grips with losing his wife. He lost her 15 years ago, and realized it 7 years later.

[DaFireMonster]

I think it's terrible that her family is in such denial. This poor woman will never be Terri again, and her family can't let go of the hope that she will be whole again. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for them, but it's time they let her go. The nuerologist who is Terri's Dr. said there is NO chance of her ever recovering. There is a slight chance in the first few months, after that there is not.
If he were abusing her, the nursing home and the Drs. would know it.
Her family can always ask for a court order for an autopsy.
Remember also, he has had 8 years of fighting with her parents to come to grips with losing his wife. He lost her 15 years ago, and realized it 7 years later.
Her family needs to wake up & realize that Terri is going & there is NOTHING on God's Green Earth that they can do now to bring her back the normal person she was how many years ago.

[Mad Co Citizen]

No offense, Burning, but if you are posting on here, you should expect to go back and forth. Are you watching/listening to Sean Hannity? Name one thing that he has stated that is positive towards the husband. There are tons, as EMTmom has put out. BUt you do not hear these things, do you?

No Affidavits? Misleading, if not wrong (I am quite sure it is wrong). Courtroom testimony, under oath, has the same weight, probably more, in the courts eyes. Several people testified UNDER OATH that these are her wishes...how else did we get to this point? In addition, the parents, a while back, tetified UNDER OATH that the husband was like a son to them and was doing everything for Terri.

Having said that, if there is CREDIBLE evidence that this man was abusive (NOT suspicions or "johnny-come-lately" affadavits from friends, relatives and right-to lifers who will say ANYTHING to put the feeding tube in, thereby sentencing her to prolonged lack of life...afterall don't catholics believe in an afterlife - therefore are'nt they fighting to keep her from it!!!!) or that he lied, then I am FOR an investigation...arrest him, I say!!

THe reason this keeps getting kicked out of court is that the plaintiffs (the Schindlers) have been ruled against too many times and the court system SHOULD NOT be used over and over again until the plaintiff gets what they want.

[Mad Co Citizen]

BTW, about heresay...the parents, friends and nurses claims are ALL heresay also, right? Kind of like he said, she said....Who spent the most time with her prior to the incident? Who would have been in the position to more likely than not know this information at the time immediately prior to the incident?

Just facts, correct? There are two sides to this story. The facts are the facts and the law is the law. Let's move on and let this woman rest in peace.

[burning85]

BTW, about heresay...the parents, friends and nurses claims are ALL heresay also, right? Kind of like he said, she said....Who spent the most time with her prior to the incident? Who would have been in the position to more likely than not know this information at the time immediately prior to the incident?

Just facts, correct? There are two sides to this story. The facts are the facts and the law is the law. Let's move on and let this woman rest in peace.



i wasnt dicreditting her husband and i have not just heard what i wanted to hear in this case, but from everything i have heard , i changed my mind about it....and if that's not good enough....then go back and re-read my post about the kid i work with that may make you understand a bit better!

i already stated: "i just think there was no evidence strong enough for either actions!!!"
you're not telling me anything i dont know...i know both sides of the story , i already said that, and its not that i cant take the rebuttles, but i have already replied and replied on previous pages so all i was saying is that there was no need to go back n forth with the replies for that fact...i just wanted it known that i changed my vote and why i did....everyone keeps saying terry will never be terry again...im sure her family is quite aware of that fact..terry has never been terry for how many years now!! they just feel that she has a right to live and they want her to live!! just like her husband feels she has the right to die and wants her to be able to have that right!! there are no hard evidences for the appeal of either sides...and its just an awful position for everybody involved with to be in!!!!!!! and i'm sure we can all agree on that much right??? ok then im through.

[Mad Co Citizen]

The comparison with a child with CP and Terri Shaivo does not apply. Just look at the cat scans. Terri is not being kept alive, her body is...and it is the law that gives the husband the choice, rightfully so in my opinion. Just like all of the other comparisons that we are hearing...they do not apply, period. The kid you work with...does he have his brain intact? Is he able to communicate? Can you really compare the two?

BTW, with the supposed noises she made...all it takes to make noises is air to pass through the vocal cords, so how can ANYONE assume that she was trying to say "I want to live". Where is the video? Evidence?

BTW, some say give her an MRI. I have no problem, but someone I know that does MRI's for research into brain activity relating to hearing and speech (an aphasiologist) told me that it will be inhumane to do this, as she would need to be restrained (all parts of her body - including her eyelids) and since she cannot respond to the performance of simple tasks, the data collected would be extremely limited.

I agree that the video, etc. are depressing, but they present the situation to the lay person as something that it is not...and some of the doctors that are in vigil and say that they differ from the opinion have religious motivations...they admit it!

You stated that he is "shady" - what do you base that on? Evidence? Think about your own life and if someone NEEDED to dig stuff up, twist it and present it in the same manner in which the information is being presented about the husband, are you confident that it is not possible to present you in a bad light? My wife and I are happily married and I have critisized her for spending too much money on her hair too. Am I now shady (because I can deal with it!)? She probably has shared my criticism with one of her friends.

What else, the fact that he "changed his mind"? I find the situation actually to be admirable. The FACTS are that he was considered "pushy" as to demanding care for her in the first few years. Do you think he did THAT for money? It is obvious (to me) that he came to a crossroads where he realized she was gone and never coming back. Maybe that did correspond to the trial, as THAT is the place where the true diagnosis would be laid out in front of a jury for everyone to see...and hearing that your wife will never recover and is in a permanent state can be a life changing event. THe only rational decision is to get on with life, afterall, a true spouse would NOT want their husband/wife to go through something like this for this many years (just my opinion, once again).

I did not say that you could not take rebuttles. I simply said that they should be expected on TWD.

[burning85]

actually the kid i work with -with cp-has minimal if any brain function cant walk, cant talk, cant swallow, and if no one decided to change his diaper or pour the nutrient mixture you might call food in to his iv bag that goes to his feeding tube...then he would die!!! i say yah u can compare the two!!!!

[eng_ine31]

i really dont know the whole story but i wish they would make up their mind either let her live or let her die they are just putting her through pain and misery

[Mad Co Citizen]

I'll take my comment back if he would meet the standard to which is being used in Florida (for deciding where this can or cannot be done). Furthermore, I respect the decision of the family (in your case) as it sounds like they have custody (correct?) The medical professionals, in Terri's case, have determined that she meets the standard to which a decision to die is allowed. I understand that there are dissenters in the medical field (especially since there is probably a fine line to be drawn with regard to the standard), as there would be in any case, but this decision has been litigated several times and an end must be reached (as it already has). The courts have said that the husband is the guardian and is the decision-maker, as long as he does not act against her wishes (I know...hearsay...and I agree). Does the kid you work with meet the standard, because if he does not, then yes, removing the feeding tube would be illegal (my understanding - I am not a lawyer). I hope you will agree that the law is obviously clear here.

I have to ask the question: Why didn't those that heard her sounds over a week ago come forward a week ago?

Maybe NOONE involved has any credability?!?!

[burning85]

I'll take my comment back if he would meet the standard to which is being used in Florida (for deciding where this can or cannot be done). Furthermore, I respect the decision of the family (in your case) as it sounds like they have custody (correct?) The medical professionals, in Terri's case, have determined that she meets the standard to which a decision to die is allowed. I understand that there are dissenters in the medical field (especially since there is probably a fine line to be drawn with regard to the standard), as there would be in any case, but this decision has been litigated several times and an end must be reached (as it already has). The courts have said that the husband is the guardian and is the decision-maker, as long as he does not act against her wishes (I know...hearsay...and I agree). Does the kid you work with meet the standard, because if he does not, then yes, removing the feeding tube would be illegal (my understanding - I am not a lawyer). I hope you will agree that the law is obviously clear here.

I have to ask the question: Why didn't those that heard her sounds over a week ago come forward a week ago?

Maybe NOONE involved has any credability?!?!


yes the parents do have custody...and the laws between states are different...so if they quit feeding and he died it would be illegal(he was born with this by the way). i do agree with you on the clarity of the law. i was never in disagreance...and i do agree with you about maybe no one has any credibility!!! i agree i agree lol...the only thing that i wish not to agree with is and it may not be disagreeing...i just find it very sad that her parents want to take care of her in this state(forget the hope of a normal terry, im sure they can see that is impossible) and her husband is still holding strong to his side! its just sad...but i can see both sides of the argument !! so i can agree with you and im glad you can see my point between the kid i work with and her!

[Mad Co Citizen]

You are right...it is a shame. I posted a while back that it would be great to know...if Michael took a polygraph. But what if the test shows that he is telling the truth. What if the parents took one and passed too. What if she has said ALL of the things that people say she said. Afterall, we make opinions/statements based on the information in front of us at that time and she could have been in different situations when making the comments. Also, people will interpret the things they hear as one thing or another. Bottom line, we will NEVER know her intentions first hand because of her condition, and the courts cannot change their decisions everytime someone new comes forward, minus some concrete evidence.

[DaFireMonster]

Terri Schiavo's parents ended their federal appeals to keep their brain-damaged daughter alive, leaving their last legal hope with a state judge who has ruled against them repeatedly, their lawyer said Saturday.

The state judge was expected to announce a decision by noon Saturday on a motion by the parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, claiming Schiavo tried to say "I want to live" just minutes before the feeding tube was removed a week ago. The parents say Schiavo said "AHHHHH" and "WAAAAAAA" when asked to repeat the phrase "I want to live." (I like this part here,,when asked to repeat the phrase....)

"Time is moving quickly, and it would appear most likely _ absent the state court stepping forward _ that Terri Schiavo will pass the point that she will be able to recover over this Easter weekend," said David Gibbs III, the Schindlers' lead attorney.

The motion before Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer, the judge who ordered Schiavo's feeding tub removed, was considered a long shot. Doctors have said Schiavo's previous utterances were involuntary moans consistent with someone in a vegetative state.

Since Congress passed an extraordinary law last weekend to let the Schindlers take their case to federal court, the 11th Circuit Court has denied three emergency requests made by Schiavo's parents, most recently on Friday. The U.S. Supreme Court, without explanation, refused to order the feeding tube reinserted.

State and federal courts have repeatedly ruled against the Schindlers, who grew increasingly anguished as their daughter entered her second week without the tube that sustained her for 15 years.

Attorneys for Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband, argued Friday that the Schindlers had abandoned all pretense of the law and were simply making "a pure emotional appeal." Michael Schiavo says his wife would not want to be kept alive artificially. Attorney George Felos didn't return a phone message seeking comment Saturday.

Doctors have said the 41-year-old woman would probably die within a week or two of the tube being removed. By Friday, dehydration was taking its toll. Terri Schiavo's tongue and eyes were bleeding and her skin was flaking off, Weller said.

"I think the people who are anxious to see her die are getting their wish," said Bob Schindler, who visited his daughter Friday.

Bob Schindler also pleaded with Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene by taking temporary custody of their daughter while court challenges are argued.

"With the stroke of his pen, he could stop this," Schindler said. "He's put Terri through a week of hell and my family though a week of hell. I implore him to put a stop to this. He has to stop it. This is judicial homicide."

Bush, who has been a staunch supporter of the Schindlers, said Thursday he is not willing to go beyond the boundaries of his powers and that he was hoping the courts would provide relief.

"We are continuing to do whatever we can, and we are pursuing all the options available to us in this case," Bush spokesman Jacob DiPietre said.

Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly from a chemical imbalance believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder. She left no living will. (Ok,, techincally she then brought this upon herslef correct??)

She went without food and water in 2003 when the feeding tube was removed for six days and five hours. It was reinserted when Bush and the Legislature pushed through a law that was later thrown out by the state Supreme Court.

Outside the hospice, eight more people _ including a 10-year old boy and 13-year-old twin girls _ were arrested Friday for trying to bring her water.

"I don't want her to die," Joshua Heldreth, 10, from North Carolina, said before his arrest. "I'm not afraid because God is with me."

A handful of protesters remained outside Terri Schiavo's hospice overnight.

"I'm so discouraged, I feel so helpless," said Christine Ambrusko, a student from Atlanta. "I don't know how in our civilized country we can allow a person to be starved to death with so many questions unanswered."

Also Friday, the FBI said a man was arrested in Fairview, N.C., allegedly for offering a $250,000 bounty for Michael Schiavo's death and $50,000 for that of a judge in the case. The FBI did not identify the judge.

Richard Alan Meywes allegedly sent the threatening e-mail Tuesday to two Tampa-area news organizations and the host of a national conservative talk show, the FBI said.

Meywes was taken into custody at his home and charged with murder for hire and with the transmission of interstate threatening communications, the FBI said. If convicted, Meywes could face up to 15 years in prison and fines up to $500,000.

___

[Emtmom]

i really dont know the whole story but i wish they would make up their mind either let her live or let her die they are just putting her through pain and miseryThere shouldn't be any pain, her body is shutting down teh way it was designed to, when someone passes. She has no reaction to painful stimuli, so no pain should be felt.
It's very sad, and I am praying that she passes quickly.

[eastshoreoutlaw]

On this, one of the holiest days on the Christian callender, we should remember ALL the parties - husband, parents, siblings, supporters on both sides, jurists, and lawmakers - and the hard decisions all have had to make. I hpoe Ms. Shivo's body gets to complete the journey she began some 15 years ago in peace and with as much dignity as possible. We must remember that the courts agreed that these are HER wishes in absense of her own written final directivies. Let's remember her legacy and may she be - finally - at peace.

[Emtmom]

On this, one of the holiest days on the Christian callender, we should remember ALL the parties - husband, parents, siblings, supporters on both sides, jurists, and lawmakers - and the hard decisions all have had to make. I hpoe Ms. Shivo's body gets to complete the journey she began some 15 years ago in peace and with as much dignity as possible. We must remember that the courts agreed that these are HER wishes in absense of her own written final directivies. Let's remember her legacy and may she be - finally - at peace.Amen to that Eastshore!

[Emtmom]

Tonight on the news they gave a breakdown of the money that Terri's husband won in the malpractice suit. First and foremost it should be said that they money was immediately turned over to a JUDGE, who has dispersed it for Terri's care and legal expenses. Her husband, has NEVER been in charge of how the money was spent. According to the court papers there is less than 50,000 left at this time.
Second, because Michael is tired of the allegations, when Terri passes an autopsy WILL be performed!

[hog]

Tonight on the news they gave a breakdown of the money that Terri's husband won in the malpractice suit. First and foremost it should be said that they money was immediately turned over to a JUDGE, who has dispersed it for Terri's care and legal expenses. Her husband, has NEVER been in charge of how the money was spent. According to the court papers there is less than 50,000 left at this time.
Second, because Michael is tired of the allegations, when Terri passes an autopsy WILL be performed!
they had to give her drugs for pain.....according to the nurses who take care of her...........so all you folks who feel it is ok to kill her by starvation and hydration......what do you think now??????????

[Emtmom]

they had to give her drugs for pain.....according to the nurses who take care of her...........so all you folks who feel it is ok to kill her by starvation and hydration......what do you think now?????????? Since they can NOT prove without doubt that there is no pain, they give the Morphine, it's to be sure she does not suffer. It's not as her parents say to kill her! SO tell me Hog, if her parents are so worried, why are they refusing to go be with her? The family spokeman said tonight on the news that they will not go to see her now. OH WAIT, that's right, it's because her husband who supposedly doesn't care refuses to leave her side!

[hog]

Since they can NOT prove without doubt that there is no pain, they give the Morphine, it's to be sure she does not suffer. It's not as her parents say to kill her! SO tell me Hog, if her parents are so worried, why are they refusing to go be with her? The family spokeman said tonight on the news that they will not go to see her now. OH WAIT, that's right, it's because her husband who supposedly doesn't care refuses to leave her side!
so if you can`t prove she isn`t having pain why would you starve her to death???????????????

[Emtmom]

so if you can`t prove she isn`t having pain why would you starve her to death???????????????
IF her parents or her parents Dr. could ahve proven that the therapy would help, don't you think a judge would have court ordered it?
Don't you think if she had enough brain function left they would have ordered the tube put back in? OR do you think everyone except her family wants her dead? Out of 9 Drs. there is only 1 who claims she can get better, the one her parents are paying. As long as they keep paying him, he will keep saying it! Nuerologists who are not even connected to the case, but have seen the Cat scans said that there is NO Therapy taht can help her. They said there is hope in the begining, but if no improvement is made in the first 6 months it is not likely that any will be. After 15 years it is CERTAIN that she will NEVER recover. This is NOT a rare case, it's just in the news because her family wants it there, and because they are fighting so hard to make people feel sorry for them.
WELL, we do, we feel sorry for them, that they can't come to grips with reality, and let their daughter go. Let her be in peace.
I'ts an awful thing to see a loved one sick, and dying, it's worse to keep them here, because you can't stand the thought of losing them.
I truly feel sorry for her family, and I pray for them to find peace once she passes.

[hog]

the problem is 5 years after her accident is when her husband said she wanted to die.................funny it was like 2 months after the money rolled in.................plus that money which was supposed to be her medical coverage for 50 years was spent on his lawyers?....hmmmmmmmmmmm funny ...no wonder he wants her dead

[Hopewell]

the problem is 5 years after her accident is when her husband said she wanted to die.................funny it was like 2 months after the money rolled in.................plus that money which was supposed to be her medical coverage for 50 years was spent on his lawyers?....hmmmmmmmmmmm funny ...no wonder he wants her dead
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, NOT funny. There is absoulutely nothing remotely amusing about her life, or death and the people it has affected.

No one wins in this situation, and I can't believe that you can be so glib in your delivery, or so petty as to think that this is about money. I would change your tone, if I were you.

[hog]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, NOT funny. There is absoulutely nothing remotely amusing about her life, or death and the people it has affected.

No one wins in this situation, and I can't believe that you can be so glib in your delivery, or so petty as to think that this is about money. I would change your tone, if I were you.
you must of misunderstood.....i think she should be left alive not starved to death.....my post was facts pretaining to the asshole husband

[Hopewell]

you must of misunderstood.....i think she should be left alive not starved to death.....my post was facts pretaining to the asshole husbandI don't think I misunderstood you. You have your opinion and I respect that.

I know what I would want if I were to be living in a persistive vegetative state, and that is for someone to cease my vital brain stem functions. I've dealt with many patients from a specialty hospital that deals with severe brain injuries and have seen their suffering first hand.

I feel my life ends when I can no longer make cognitive associations with the world around me, or interact and grow and learn as a human being. I do not know if these were Terri Schiavo's wishes, and can not speculate on them.

I can say that I did not care for how you addressed your post in relation to those who have cared for her. If you think her husband is an asshole for removing the tube, so be it. But I doubt he takes any pleasure or profit from her death. I think the day she leaves this earth will be a relief to some, maybe her, maybe not, but it will be a day of sadness for all, including her husband.

[mohican]

I don't think I misunderstood you. You have your opinion and I respect that.

I know what I would want if I were to be living in a persistive vegetative state, and that is for someone to cease my vital brain stem functions. I've dealt with many patients from a specialty hospital that deals with severe brain injuries and have seen their suffering first hand.

I feel my life ends when I can no longer make cognitive associations with the world around me, or interact and grow and learn as a human being. I do not know if these were Terri Schiavo's wishes, and can not speculate on them.

I can say that I did not care for how you addressed your post in relation to those who have cared for her. If you think her husband is an asshole for removing the tube, so be it. But I doubt he takes any pleasure or profit from her death. I think the day she leaves this earth will be a relief to some, maybe her, maybe not, but it will be a day of sadness for all, including her husband.
Hopewell, I may not always agree with you, but you are always reasoned and reasonable

Carry on

[Emtmom]

Schiavo Dies After Feeding Tube Removed

1 minute ago U.S. National - AP


By MIKE SCHNEIDER, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman whose 15 years connected to a feeding tube sparked an epic legal battle that went all the way to the White House and Congress, died Thursday, 13 days after the tube was removed. She was 41.



Schiavo died at the Pinellas Park hospice where she lay for years while her husband and her parents fought over her fate in the nation's longest, most bitter right-to-die dispute.


Her death was confirmed to The Associated Press by Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, and announced to reporters outside her hospice by a family adviser.


Brother Paul O'!!!!ell, an adviser to Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, said the parents and their two other children "were denied access at the moment of her death. They've been requesting, as you know, for the last hour to try to be in there and they were denied access by Michael Schiavo. They are in there now, praying at her bedside."


Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 after her heart stopped because of a chemical imbalance that was believed to have been brought on an eating disorder. Court-appointed doctors ruled she was in a persistent vegetative state, with no real consciousness or chance of recovery.


The feeding tube was removed with a judge's approval March 18 after Michael Schiavo argued that his wife told him long ago she would not want to be kept alive artificially. His in-laws disputed that, and argued that she could get better with treatment.


During the seven-year legal battle, Florida lawmakers, Congress and President Bush tried to intervene on behalf of her parents, but state and federal courts at all levels repeatedly ruled in favor of her husband.


After the tube that supplied a nutrient solution was disconnected, protesters streamed into Pinellas Park to keep vigil outside her hospice, with many arrested as they tried to bring her food and water. The Vatican likened the removal of her feeding tube to capital punishment for an innocent woman.


The Schindlers pleaded for their daughter's life, calling the removal of the tube "judicial homicide."

[Jaws]

As a married man, I think if I ever were put in the situation this man faced I do'nt know if I could bring myself to do it. It takes more courage than most possess to make the decision regarding the fate of your loved one. Hog, if you knew all of the facts of the case, you would know that a law firm not too long ago offered Michael Schiavio a large sum of money to walk away from his wife and not look back and let custody go to her parents. He refused. He has always stuck to the simple statement that she did not want to live this way. Now, try to picture yourself in this state. Without proof lets look at it in two ways. If she could see and was aware of her surroundings and had the abilty to think to herself but is unable to move or speak how would you like to be left that way for 15 years? If she wasn't aware of what was going on around her and couldnt see as well as everything else, well ask yourself, would you want to be left that way? Yes, she was an innocent woman as the vatican put it. No she didn't deserve to die. But in light of her present state she is better off without the suffering. I can only hope she was'nt aware of what was going on cause that is more punishment than death. I know I would not want that. My suggestion to everyone is to make a living will so this doesnt happen to you. There is no reason to take sides here because in the end, no one won.

[burning85]

god bless everyone involved....

[STEALTH MODE]

She is in a better place now - rest in peace girlie! :)

[hog]

She is in a better place now - rest in peace girlie! :)
she shouldn`t be........keep death row inmates alive and kill her

[Chia6004]

That made no sense hog.

[STEALTH MODE]

That made no sense hog.
HAHAHAHA CHIA OK, I know this is off topic here, but I have to say - when I looked at the main "thread" page and saw that you were the last to post on this thread, I was like "ohhhh CHIA, here we go with the longgggg post" - but, my GOD - simple, short, sweet, to the point... WHAT IS HAPPENING TO YOU!? I love it... (I am adding to your reputation!) :D

P.S. I agree, HOG - that makes NO sense! You gotta start using more words, puncutation, etc... :confused:

[Chia6004]

lol, EDIT: opps wrong topic.

[Hopewell]

Hopewell, I may not always agree with you, but you are always reasoned and reasonable

Carry onLikewise, my friend. As a smart man once said, "I got your six."

I hope Ms. Schiavo is at peace, and to my faith be true, I believe she is. It's us poor souls among the living that need prayers. May God as you know him, be with us all.

[Rackin A Round]

actually I agree with Hog, it made plenty sense to me....They can keep the most horrible murderers, rapists alive, but kill terri schiavo. Right said hog, but she is in a much better place now...God rest...

[Mad Co Citizen]

A much better place, may I add.

[hog]

actually I agree with Hog, it made plenty sense to me....They can keep the most horrible murderers, rapists alive, but kill terri schiavo. Right said hog, but she is in a much better place now...God rest...
that is exactly what i mean.......makes me sick .........i do agree she is in a better place but i don`t agree how she got there

[No Fear]

It was sad ordeal all the way around, even at the end, and unfortunately will continue.

[hog]

It was sad ordeal all the way around, even at the end, and unfortunately will continue.this will go on for a long time.....

[mohican]

she shouldn`t be........keep death row inmates alive and kill her
I have the impression her soul was with the Lord a long time ago. Just a shell kept alive artificially.

[FireChic87]

just happened to be checking around the watchdesk and came upon this thread. The Terri Schiavo case has been going on for quite some time. Even with her death, it will continue to be apart of the legal system. Now the fight is over her remains. How sad? Well all I can say is, rest in peace Terri Schiavo. I am sure she's in a better place now not suffering and being kept alive by a machine that kept her nutritionally sound.

[Flashover21]

Im sick of hearing about this, its a horrible thing to happen but life goes on, they over play to much stuff. Now if only a LODD in the fire service could get this much media attention........

[Hopewell]

I have the impression her soul was with the Lord a long time ago. Just a shell kept alive artificially.If we don't always agree, we agree now. Well said, PFD3501. May we all find such peace.