who would you rather have in ur dept? [Archive] - Firefighter Forums @ The WatchDesk

Vollies Suck

01-04-2004, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Karl Childers
Truth hurt?? :rolleyes:

Of course the truth hurts, Mr. Childers. Nitwits and wackos like itsnotoveryet cannot stand to have someone tell the truth about them and their pathetic little wannabe lives. Instead of addressing what is written about volunteer fire companies it's easier to attack people whose opinions upset them. That's always the way it is with these vollie wackos: if you don't kiss their asses and let them get away with comparing themselves to real (career) firefighters, then they go after you like you are the devil himself.

Over the years, I've found that the surest way to know you are right in a debate is when your opponent can't refute what you say, and resorts to attacking you personally. I take this whole poll and everything written on it as a sign of surrender by the vollie wackos: they are basically admitting I'm right.

Thanks for your support.

Vollies Suck

01-04-2004, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by hazffresq
I have a question for you volliessuck....why do you hate vollies? I have asked this question to many paid guys and I have never gotten a straightforward answer. Is it because there is none? I'm not sure but what I do know is that on the fire ground no one can tell who is a vollie or not except for the unit numbers and the lettering on the unit's/turnout gear.

Hey kid, I will take it easy on you since you are just 16 years old...unless you make some idiotic claim to be just as good as career firefighters.

Now then...If you had taken the time to read my posts before posting your question, you would see that I have never claimed to hate vollies in general. (Although I do not care for some of the wackos on here who apparently are vollies.) Go back and read some of what I have written and you might understand where I'm coming from on this issue.

Now I have a question for you: At your age, just how many firegrounds have you been on to be able to judge just who does what how well?

Mags

01-04-2004, 04:35 AM

I'm gonna go with umm.....huh.....hmmmm.....my dog...yea that sounds good...at least a dog would shut up when you wanted it too...
Good to see you back VS

itsnotoveryet

01-04-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
You know,I challenge you to quote from any post where I have allegedly said "on the record" that I think I'm well-respected.

in ur very own thread about me-

Hell, on some threads I am even highly critical of volunteer systems, and my views are respected -- if not agreed with --

itsnotoveryet

01-04-2004, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
You have a better chance of graduating 8th grade someday than of putting me out of a job.

as i said before i wouldnot want the paycut to personally take ur job. but i prove i could do it with no problem every day. let a few more budget problems hit baltimore and we'll see whos on the street.

itsnotoveryet

01-04-2004, 01:27 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl Childers
[B]Vollies Suck. I have read the majority of his posts. I can't seem to find where he ever put down the volunteers.

are u blind? ill make it easy for u to find. read his screenname.

He is simply trying to tell you how he feels. It is his opinion. As an American, he is more than entitled.

i have never said that vollie sucker does not have the right to spew his anti-vollie union-lovin krap on this fourm.

And being a veteran, be he right or be he wrong, I will stand up and defend his right to his opinion.

agreed. so then why are u giving me shit about voicing my opinion that he is wrong and is just trying to be ignorant to vollies in general?

Maybe if everyone would just take a step back and reread his posts, you may understand.

i understand. hes an asshole and has proved it over and over again. hes so blinded by the union mentality he cannot be rashional.

RUNNINGTHEPIPE

01-04-2004, 01:46 PM

itsnotoveryet,

I have a question for you. Wicomico county has only one paid department and one iaff local. At the moment that local has no negotiating power and very little political influence. So how did you get such an anti iaff and anti paid attitude

Hopewell

01-04-2004, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by itsnotoveryet
let a few more budget problems hit baltimore and we'll see whos on the street. Since VS at one point said he works every 3rd day and Baltimore works 4 on/4 off, I doubt that he's employed by the city. I am though, and I can tell you that there is no way that this city could effectively manage the call volume we receive, particularly in EMS, with any reliance on volunteers. You're going to have a tough time proving that one wrong.

Despite some heated debates on TWD, I don't think I've ever wished someone lose their livelihood.

911ALWYSRMEMBER

01-04-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Karl Childers
Vollies Suck. I have read the majority of his posts. I can't seem to find where he ever put down the volunteers. He is simply trying to tell you how he feels. It is his opinion. As an American, he is more than entitled. And being a veteran, be he right or be he wrong, I will stand up and defend his right to his opinion. Maybe if everyone would just take a step back and reread his posts, you may understand. But from your replies, I sincerely doubt it. :D

Look at his name screename for this forum, DUH!!!!

Karl Childers

01-04-2004, 08:28 PM

it's only a name. You know, sticks and stones can break my bones, but names will never hurt you. For God's sakes, quit being so sensitive. If you want to prove him wrong, then do it. Quit crying about it. This is an issue with no sure winner. Except, for the public. That is what it's truly all about. Paid/vollie/whatever, John Q Public. So instead of spouting off how good you are, just go do it. Make yourself feel better. If you are in this business for a pat on the back, get out now. I have been doing this for over 30 years, the thanks are few and far between. But, I don't care. I am career, but I don't make a big deal out of it. I go to work, treat my patients to the utmost of my knowledge, and then I go home. If I had time, I would probably volunteer too, but time is precious.

So, instead of silly name calling, or reacting to a name, get trained, practice and do the best you can for your community where you serve.:D

LostOnScene

01-04-2004, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
That's always the way it is with these vollie wackos: if you don't kiss their asses and let them get away with comparing themselves to real (career) firefighters, then they go after you like you are the devil himself.

so volunteers aren't real firefighters?

cappy

01-04-2004, 08:53 PM

me personally i would rather take a cadaver that has been on the table to long with a bad odor, at least the cadaver would be easier to stomach!!!

jonnyboy5_12

01-04-2004, 10:51 PM

It is no wonder VS picks on us vollunteers all the time...Look at all the lame excuses and comebacks we come up with...it is downright pathetic. Some days im embarressed to be a volunteer. Not because of our lack of skills, but because of the people who are volunteers that cant get their heads out of their asses. Why is everyone attacking vs? Like i said, its no wonder he hates us. grow up.
Peace out

Bobby Boucher

01-05-2004, 01:45 AM

i take vollies suck because he is loyal.

important trait to me.

whether you agree with his posts, this whole idea is nonsense. you honestly have no idea of either's firefighting ability. you only know you don't like to read what he writes.

problem is, much like my posts, no one can get on here and say that what he writes isn't true. why is that?

guess that truth hurts sometimes, eh? too bad.....

BB

Bullgod

01-05-2004, 03:11 AM

I must say what a thread, but strangely I find myself posting on it?!?

Vollie or not, makes no different, we are all here to do the same job, are we not? Can't we all just get along?

The Daver

IPimpDaShortBus

01-05-2004, 09:09 AM

"Can't we all just get along?"

Come on now, if we all got along TWD would go down the shitter!
:D

Chief1

01-05-2004, 12:58 PM

I would like to start by saying, even though I am posting a reply to this thread, this sort of career v. volunteer rhetoric does more harm than good.

For those of you that are repeatedly offended by posts that describe volunteers as “wanna-be’s”, I would like for you to do a little retrospective research. In my case for instance, I have been a volunteer fire fighter for 13 years and I really wanted to start arguing with ‘volliessuck’, but I couldn’t because back in my hay day I could have been the poster child for what he (vollies suck) describes as the “typical volunteer”. I had a Ford Bronco with more flashing lights on it than the Engine. I carried not only a pager but a hand held as well, and as if that weren’t enough I had a mobile scanner mounted in my truck. I always had a fire t-shirt on. I spent every waking moment at the station just waiting for a call to come in. I prefaced every conversation that I had with anyone from outside the fire service with “I am a fire fighter” conveniently leaving out the “volunteer”. After initially failing the civil service test at the ripe old age of 18 I continually made comments like “only suck asses can get past that test” and “only truly dedicated fire fighters will do it for free”. I was literally a piece of crap vollie wacko. So before you start to fuss at people for thinking the way they do, think back a little, have you ever been one of the people described as a wanna-be or have you seen the kind of people they talk about. I have read posts written by ‘vollies suck’ were he plainly states not all volunteers are wanna-be’s, but “typically” they are as he describes, which I might add is true, I see it all the time. I was one of the lucky ones, when I was 19 the membership of my department elected a retired career fire fighter to be the new volunteer Chief. He remained Chief for 9 of my 13 years and if it weren’t for him I would probably still be a wacko, wanna-be. Just remember, in order to change one’s perception you must first change their perspective. (In-order to change how someone thinks, you must change what they see). Long story short, if you aren’t the “typical volunteer” don’t worry about what others say. If you are ahead of the curve, be proud of that and move on, don’t try to defend those folks that fall into the “wanna-be” category.

Just an opinion
Chief1

P.S. I passed the civil service test at the ripe old age of 20 and the rest is history. :D

burning85

01-05-2004, 10:21 PM

vs-your opinions of volunteer fire fighters are so well known around the watch desk...so if your are so much more educated in every possible way than volunteers why are you so pathetic?? you really must not have anything better to do then sit on the computer and search through forums that you know are volly made and start your same old lame shit!!seriously you need to find a better hobby...since you are god's gift to the fire service why don't you find a forum with other gifts like you and discuss something worth while!

and by the way...the start of this thread was just as childish and lame as the shit v.s. satrts around here!

Vollies Suck

01-07-2004, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by itsnotoveryet
in ur very own thread about me-

Hell, on some threads I am even highly critical of volunteer systems, and my views are respected -- if not agreed with --

I did not say "well-respected", and you have taken my post out of context. Typical tactic for someone like you...

Vollies Suck

01-07-2004, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by itsnotoveryet
as i said before i wouldnot want the paycut to personally take ur job. but i prove i could do it with no problem every day. let a few more budget problems hit baltimore and we'll see whos on the street.

Ah yes, another semi-literate nitwit boasting that he would have to take a pay cut to become a real (career) firefighter. This is of course code language. What it really means is: "I would give my left nut to be a real firefighter, but I cannot pass the test."

I have a news flash for you, babe: most real (career) firefighters earn more than they pay you at Taco Bell.

The only two things I know about Baltimore are that the Orioles are in sad shape and the Ravens lost last weekend.

Vollies Suck

01-07-2004, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by RUNNINGTHEPIPE
itsnotoveryet, I have a question for you. Wicomico county has only one paid department and one iaff local. At the moment that local has no negotiating power and very little political influence. So how did you get such an anti iaff and anti paid attitude

I can answer that question: he got his anti-paid and anti-union attitude when he failed the entrance exam, or the polygraph, or the background investigation, or the drug test, and found out that he could never become a real (career) firefighter. Until that happened we were his heroes...

Vollies Suck

01-07-2004, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by Hopewell
Since VS at one point said he works every 3rd day and Baltimore works 4 on/4 off, I doubt that he's employed by the city. I am though, and I can tell you that there is no way that this city could effectively manage the call volume we receive, particularly in EMS, with any reliance on volunteers. You're going to have a tough time proving that one wrong. Despite some heated debates on TWD, I don't think I've ever wished someone lose their livelihood.

Hopewell, thanks for having read and understood my posts. Stay safe.

Vollies Suck

01-07-2004, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by 911ALWYSRMEMBER
Look at his name screename for this forum, DUH!!!!

Why don't you try reading my posts, DUH!!!!

Vollies Suck

01-07-2004, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by jonnyboy5_12
It is no wonder VS picks on us vollunteers all the time...Look at all the lame excuses and comebacks we come up with...it is downright pathetic. Some days im embarressed to be a volunteer. Not because of our lack of skills, but because of the people who are volunteers that cant get their heads out of their asses. Why is everyone attacking vs? Like i said, its no wonder he hates us. grow up.
Peace out

Thanks for your understanding.

Vollies Suck

01-07-2004, 03:19 AM

Originally posted by Chief1
For those of you that are repeatedly offended by posts that describe volunteers as “wanna-be’s”, I would like for you to do a little retrospective research. In my case for instance, I have been a volunteer fire fighter for 13 years and I really wanted to start arguing with ‘volliessuck’, but I couldn’t because back in my hay day I could have been the poster child for what he (vollies suck) describes as the “typical volunteer”...I was literally a piece of crap vollie wacko...So before you start to fuss at people for thinking the way they do, think back a little, have you ever been one of the people described as a wanna-be or have you seen the kind of people they talk about. I have read posts written by ‘vollies suck’ were he plainly states not all volunteers are wanna-be’s, but “typically” they are as he describes, which I might add is true, I see it all the time....(In-order to change how someone thinks, you must change what they see).

Chief 1, this is one of the most astoundingly honest and forthright things I have ever read anywhere. Thanks for looking past my name, and reading my posts, and understanding what I've been trying to say here.

kptbolt911

01-07-2004, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
I challenge you to quote from any post

I did that on just another post of yours .... where you agree that some volunteers have it together .... so you I guess are full of bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

emsdork

01-07-2004, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
I did not say "well-respected", and you have taken my post out of context. Typical tactic for someone like you...

Posted on WICOMICO County

Vollies Suck
Public Servant

Registered: Nov 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 195

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gerry_58
"Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind..."It should-- as I believe that is exactly the point that was being made about you!! I have a sincere question for you V/S--Do you ever try to contribute something positive to this forum, or do you just travel from thread to thread, seeing who you can piss off and what good discussions you can torpedo with hateful replies Please do not reply with some subversive, vollie-hating statment, as it will just be ignored.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First off, babe, I don't hate anybody. Life's too short for that.

On threads where there is a serious fire service discussion and civil tone, I contribute a lot. Hell, on some threads I am even highly critical of volunteer systems, and my views are respected -- if not agreed with -- because I make my case logically and politely.

But on threads where vollie wackos do little more than post trash talk and bullshit, all the while claiming to be "unpaid professionals," I give it right back to them. Your buddy itsnotoveryet chose to take a shot at me, and to get involved in something on another thread for another jurisdiction that did not concern him, so I started this thread. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Well you said it V/S in WICOMICO County at that. You were rignt not Well respected.

Chief601

01-07-2004, 02:21 PM

V/S What do you mean pass the drug test? Are you serious? Shit, if I only knew that was important.

Vollies Suck

01-08-2004, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by kptbolt911
I did that on just another post of yours .... where you agree that some volunteers have it together ....

That clearly does not include you.

HOOKMAN

01-10-2004, 08:44 PM

vollies suck....my 2 cents to u. hmmmm...well to start off since ur such a bad ass fireman where is the location of ur big "career" dept located...i would love to know where and see how many fires u have been too and how many runs a year your company runs to justify all ur crap u write..sounds like by the way u type ur the one who barely passed the test to get a job and now that u have it u start bashing volunteers...hmmm well i can tell u this much and that is i work as career fireman in one of the top 10 busiest fire depts in the united states...yes i said states. you on the other hand would probably say county....i also am a proud volunteer in a combo dept where the service we provide is very good...ive always said there are both bad career/volunteer fireman...and there is alot of volunteer depts that basically have all career fireman such as kentland vfdin MD which i would say consists of 75% DC fireman, fairfax county and other local jurisdictions...heck there probably one of the most aggressive volunteer companies in the us on top of seeing more fires in a week then u will see in a year or more. so it sounds like ur in a combo dept and u got the job and u cant get along..ahhh u poor baby...if ur such a great fireman then maybe u can work alongside the people u say cant do the job as great as u can and bless them with all ur firefighting skills..cuz im sure ur instructor 1,2,&3 qualified right....well just do ur job and dont worry about what others are doing...didnt ur mama teach u any manners boy:D

BCFD in Philly

01-10-2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by HOOKMAN
vollies suck....my 2 cents to u. hmmmm...well to start off since ur such a bad ass fireman where is the location of ur big "career" dept located...i would love to know where and see how many fires u have been too and how many runs a year your company runs to justify all ur crap u write..sounds like by the way u type ur the one who barely passed the test to get a job and now that u have it u start bashing volunteers...hmmm well i can tell u this much and that is i work as career fireman in one of the top 10 busiest fire depts in the united states...yes i said states. you on the other hand would probably say county....i also am a proud volunteer in a combo dept where the service we provide is very good...ive always said there are both bad career/volunteer fireman...and there is alot of volunteer depts that basically have all career fireman such as kentland vfdin MD which i would say consists of 75% DC fireman, fairfax county and other local jurisdictions...heck there probably one of the most aggressive volunteer companies in the us on top of seeing more fires in a week then u will see in a year or more. so it sounds like ur in a combo dept and u got the job and u cant get along..ahhh u poor baby...if ur such a great fireman then maybe u can work alongside the people u say cant do the job as great as u can and bless them with all ur firefighting skills..cuz im sure ur instructor 1,2,&3 qualified right....well just do ur job and dont worry about what others are doing...didnt ur mama teach u any manners boy:D

Looks like you need a double dose of Lomotil to treat the oral version. Look it up in the PDR.

Hopewell

01-11-2004, 07:50 AM

C'mon Cap, how do you expect folks who write this stuff to even be familiar with your references, much less their content? ;)

For those who are still wondering, the learned gentleman from greater Philly is referring to the Physician's Desk Reference, and if I recall my pharmacology, Lomotil is used to treat profuse diarrhea.

HOOKMAN

01-11-2004, 02:25 PM

BCFD in philly thanx for showing my reply back again i guess this shows that u have alot of computer and office experience and your point was:rolleyes: at the time of my reply to this post i didnt give a crap and right now while im working overtime i still dont give a crap but thanx for wasting your on time by replying back to me as i think im wasting my precious time at even replying to you...bcfd in philly...nice name whats it stand for cuz i hardly doubt u have anything to do with any dept especially in philly...why dont u send me a pm so u can bless me with all your knowledge and experience..see ya zero:D

BCFD in Philly

01-11-2004, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Hopewell
C'mon Cap, how do you expect folks who write this stuff to even be familiar with your references, much less their content? ;)

For those who are still wondering, the learned gentleman from greater Philly is referring to the Physician's Desk Reference, and if I recall my pharmacology, Lomotil is used to treat profuse diarrhea.

Hope,

With all the three letter acronyms flying around behind people's "names" on TWD I thought it would be a slam dunk. Ironically, PDR in Philly (the drug company capital of the country) also refers to the Philadelphia Distance Run - a great half-marathon through center city Philadelphia - that I usually run in September.

Go IGGLES:)

BCFD in Philly

01-11-2004, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by HOOKMAN
BCFD in philly thanx for showing my reply back again i guess this shows that u have alot of computer and office experience and your point was:rolleyes: at the time of my reply to this post i didnt give a crap and right now while im working overtime i still dont give a crap but thanx for wasting your on time by replying back to me as i think im wasting my precious time at even replying to you...bcfd in philly...nice name whats it stand for cuz i hardly doubt u have anything to do with any dept especially in philly...why dont u send me a pm so u can bless me with all your knowledge and experience..see ya zero:D

Uh, yeah I do, but all I had to do was click on the quote button. Forget the Lomotil - I'll just take an over-the counter "Ignore" for your future posts. Good luck trying to find that button. Oh, BTW I'm off on weekends and heading for a private box at Lincoln Financial Field to watch the Eagles-Packers game, using my wireless laptop to respond to your incomprehensible, run-on, moronic, non-sensical non-sentence. Sorry I only give out knowledge and experience to my paying clients. Unless you are willing to pay my weekend rate. PM me and let me know.

HOOKMAN

01-11-2004, 06:19 PM

WOW BCFD IN PHILLY ur really smart and use really big words. i'm really impressed.still absolutley no point to any of your responses on anything which still doesnt change my current opinon that u still are a zero. so tell me what office space u currently occupy in ur FD. im sure ur the pride and joy of ur fire dept thats if ur even a fireman. i pause to wonder that there are really people like u in the fire service. after reading ur replys u make no point as well as no sense to anything. and really wouldnt pay for anything for anything u had to offer...so with that in mind have a great day and i know ur not in a suite watching the game becuz ur to dumb and stupid to make enough money to buy a beer and a hotdog to go to a game, but probably at the moose lodge in whatever township it is u live in in PA drinking ur fat gut away. GO PACKERS:D

HOOKMAN

01-11-2004, 06:29 PM

GREEN BAY 14 PHILLY ''ZERO'' hmmmits only the first half....oh yeah hows the game BDCFD IN PHILLY:rolleyes: ILL GET BACK TO YA DONT WORRY SLIM...:p

Karl Childers

01-11-2004, 07:23 PM

GO PACKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ON THE WAY TO CAROLINA, THEN HOUSTON.

GREEN BAY PACKERS A TEAM OF DESTINY:D

Karl Childers

01-12-2004, 09:29 AM

better luck next year for Green Bay. But, no matter what, they are still the best team. GO PACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Chief601

01-12-2004, 10:20 AM

VS: I just have one question that I would like answered: prior to your gaining employment as a career firefighter, did you serve as a volunteer anywhere? You don't have to say where and trust me, I am not stirring any shit. In my career I have seen alot of carreer firefighters start out as volunteers and remain as volunteers. A few turn and become anti however, most all BCoFD two hatters seem to remember where they came from and still pay the highest regards to their brothers that don't receive a paycheck for what they do.

Vollies Suck

01-12-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Capt621
VS: I just have one question that I would like answered: prior to your gaining employment as a career firefighter, did you serve as a volunteer anywhere? You don't have to say where and trust me, I am not stirring any shit. In my career I have seen alot of carreer firefighters start out as volunteers and remain as volunteers. A few turn and become anti however, most all BCoFD two hatters seem to remember where they came from and still pay the highest regards to their brothers that don't receive a paycheck for what they do.

I have addressed this issue many times...read through my previous posts.

Chief601

01-12-2004, 02:48 PM

VS:
I don't usually follow many posts outside of the BCoFD threads and as much as I would enjoy reading your past history, I couldn't tell you where to look. So, if you don't mind indulging a two hatter, one who isn't stirring the pot, I would just like to know if you got your start there. Trust me, there will be no harsh words coming back. Thanks in advance!

SocialMember19

01-12-2004, 03:19 PM

All I have to say is that Everyone is Equal. We all do the same job whether it comes to Firefighting/EMS Services or even working at a local plant being a chemist. Why I say this is... we work our asses off to get the job done. Thats it.... Whether youre career or volunteer we "basically" do the same job. One gets paid the other is strictly volunteer. Once in a blue moon the career firefighters were volunteering at local fire depts. The station I belong to as a social member has one volunteer firefighter who went to Morgantown to be a paid firefighter. He is still an active volunteer at our fire dept. The people on here who think that vollies don't see a fire, you are wrong. My parents see a lot of fire in their time as a volunteer firefighter. To those who think vollies don't fight fire, go into a burning building or house, you are also wrong. My stepmom, my mom, and my dad are certified maskmen. My dad has been a firefighter for 20 some yrs now. Broke his leg on a scene of a house fire. Fell through the floor into the basement. He risked his life to save a family. What I am saying is Career of volunteer, they both risk their lives for the public. Some of the posts I have read really fucking pissed me off. But I kept my cool and proceeded to read. I don't really speak my mind but when someone's post pisses me off, I'll speak my mind.

All I have to say again is that EVERYONE IS EQUAL!!!!!!!!!!!! SO SUCK IT UP AND BE MEN/WOMEN NOT FUCKING PUSSIES AND BASH CAREER OR VOLUNTEERS WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LostOnScene

01-12-2004, 04:29 PM

my god...why don't we all get over it and move on? everyone has their own opinions lets leave it at that instead of attacking each others opinions?

Vollies Suck

01-13-2004, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by Capt621
VS:
I don't usually follow many posts outside of the BCoFD threads and as much as I would enjoy reading your past history, I couldn't tell you where to look. So, if you don't mind indulging a two hatter, one who isn't stirring the pot, I would just like to know if you got your start there. Trust me, there will be no harsh words coming back. Thanks in advance!

I joined a local VFD in a combination department as a teenager, became a career firefighter at 21. Tried the two-hatter thing for a while and stopped for a number of reasons. As much as I like my career, I had -- and have -- a life outside the fire service, and could not spend my time off hanging around another firehouse. Also, working in a large urban career department really made me see the inherent problems and deficiencies of a volunteer system, and I no longer had the patience to deal with elected officers, junior members, the board of directors, wacko members, waiting for a driver, waiting for a crew, late responses, scratched calls, fundraising activities, and all the other bullshit that goes with any VFD.

Looking back, my VFD experience was a good introduction to the fire service, but with the perspective of 20+ years as a professional firefighter, and having seen firsthand the differences between the two systems, I do not believe it's a good idea to provide an emergency public safety service with pagers and station sirens and people who might or might not be available when needed.

Hopewell

01-13-2004, 12:37 AM

This is an astoundingly accurate and honest account. The paid vs. volunteer debate has been beaten like a rented mule, and to those that wish to keep harping at you with aggravated defenses of how it is where they are, and how they do things in their part of the world, I say you should simply present them with this post to explain why you feel the way you do.

Anyone who has ever volunteered, past or present, can at least in some way identify with this description. If a career service is not feasable in every part of the country, they can at least understand the frustration you have experiened first hand wherever it is you live. It is not a condemnation of volunteer firefighters, it is a condemnation of a system that makes concessions for periodic failures in an arena where there should be room for none.

LostOnScene

01-13-2004, 12:52 AM

your inbox is full

Vollies Suck

01-13-2004, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by SocialMember19
All I have to say is that Everyone is Equal. We all do the same job whether it comes to Firefighting/EMS Services or even working at a local plant being a chemist. Why I say this is... we work our asses off to get the job done. Thats it.... Whether youre career or volunteer we "basically" do the same job. One gets paid the other is strictly volunteer. Once in a blue moon the career firefighters were volunteering at local fire depts. The station I belong to as a social member has one volunteer firefighter who went to Morgantown to be a paid firefighter. He is still an active volunteer at our fire dept. The people on here who think that vollies don't see a fire, you are wrong. My parents see a lot of fire in their time as a volunteer firefighter. To those who think vollies don't fight fire, go into a burning building or house, you are also wrong. My stepmom, my mom, and my dad are certified maskmen. My dad has been a firefighter for 20 some yrs now. Broke his leg on a scene of a house fire. Fell through the floor into the basement. He risked his life to save a family. What I am saying is Career of volunteer, they both risk their lives for the public. Some of the posts I have read really fucking pissed me off. But I kept my cool and proceeded to read. I don't really speak my mind but when someone's post pisses me off, I'll speak my mind.

All I have to say again is that EVERYONE IS EQUAL!!!!!!!!!!!! SO SUCK IT UP AND BE MEN/WOMEN NOT FUCKING PUSSIES AND BASH CAREER OR VOLUNTEERS WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read my post above, please. Also, FYI, you do not do what I do, unless you work a scheduled number of hours fulltime, and perform other duties such as hydrant inspection and light maintenance, fire prevention inspections, fire drills, etc., etc., etc. There are many other differences between career and volunteer FDs, but suffice it to say that you are absolutely not my equal.

Your claim to be my equal is ridiculous on its face: if you have never been a professional firefighter, you have no basis for such a claim. (I, on the other hand, have been a vollie, and therefore have the experience upon which I base my opinions.) Furthermore, your claim is insulting to me, for it devalues my work: You are effectively saying that my brothers and I are not worth what the taxpayers pay us for our efforts, and that you could do the same job for free. (If you work for a living, imagine how you might feel if someone told your boss that he could do your job just as well as you for free.)

I note in your profile that you have just turned 20. I remember being an enthusiastic vollie at your age, but I never, not once, thought that I was the equal of career firefighters. When you are older, I hope you are a lot more mature and a lot less arrogant.

Vollies Suck

01-13-2004, 01:16 AM

Hopewell, thanks for your understanding and insight. BTW, it is a pleasure to read your well-crafted posts.

RED DEVIL

01-13-2004, 11:49 AM

I think the majority of volunteers posting are getting tunnel vision as soon as they read the name " vollie sucks". Yes if a volunteer is truly dedicated he/she can perform to the ability of a career person on the fireground but thats where the similarities stop. Yes there are men/women who only show up to work for a check but the majority show up because its what we love to do. Volunteers do not do the inspections, mandatory training or paperwork requiered on the career side. Ive been on both sides of the fence and know how easy it is as a volunteer to put something off or slide something to the side, well the career side does not have that luxury. You cant be at work and say " we'll get the day care inspection next week, lets go have a beer". But to say vols and paid guys are equal is just wrong. No volunteer can be as dedicated as a man/woman who is doing this to support his/her family.

emsdork

01-13-2004, 12:01 PM

Red Devil,

I agree and respect alot of what you and VS are saying. However, I feel that it is up to the department to set and hold the standards when it comes to Vollies and paid personel and if the vollies do not meet the standards of conduct, training, preformance, and uniformity then their services should not be needed anymore. It is not a right to be a hose jocky or a band-aid pusher it is a privlage. If you as a vollie do not try to hold the same values in the service listed above then get the hell out of my fire and rescue service.

P.S. I am a Vollie

Karl Childers

01-13-2004, 05:43 PM

I believe you got it. Amazing, just amazing. I am impressed. I take back all I said about you. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Have a good one bud.:D

Chief601

01-13-2004, 06:25 PM

VS: OK, got me there. I can't say that I have the same views that you do about people that wish to volunteer their time, energy, money and other things but on the volunteer side...I can't argue about waiting on crews or drivers, fundraising etc... What I can say is that in my combination department we have some dead ass paid guys and we have some dead ass vollies. We have two hatters that are well schooled, paid guys that I'd risk my life for and vollies that I would as well. I really don't care what you say or write about any of them. I really don't care who chooses to pick a fight with you over their own beliefs. My position is that it is better to rate the person as a firefighter than it is to rate the title of vollie or career, and who gets a check and who doesn't. One last point, when we are all standing at the pearly gates or the gates of hell it really isn't going to matter which team we were on as much as it matters that we were all on the same field.

BCFD in Philly

01-13-2004, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Capt621
VS: OK, got me there. I can't say that I have the same views that you do about people that wish to volunteer their time, energy, money and other things but on the volunteer side...I can't argue about waiting on crews or drivers, fundraising etc... What I can say is that in my combination department we have some dead ass paid guys and we have some dead ass vollies. We have two hatters that are well schooled, paid guys that I'd risk my life for and vollies that I would as well. I really don't care what you say or write about any of them. I really don't care who chooses to pick a fight with you over their own beliefs. My position is that it is better to rate the person as a firefighter than it is to rate the title of vollie or career, and who gets a check and who doesn't. One last point, when we are all standing at the pearly gates or the gates of hell it really isn't going to matter which team we were on as much as it matters that we were all on the same field.

The core of the issue is the adequacy/inadequacy of the system charged with delivering the product known as public safety, in this case specifically fire suppression/prevention/education as well as emergency medical care.

It is was delivering laundry then "scratches" wouldn't matter.

If it was volunteering at the local senior center and showing up with 2 people instead of the usual 4 people it wouldn't matter.

Showing up in a timely manner with the resources and personnel does matter when an EMERGENCY has been reported to local authorities who are responsible for public safety.

As areas that once could rely on volunteerism for "fire service" grow and develop into megalopolises and fewer people are able/willing to VOLUNTARILY provide an acceptable level of service
the need for full-time, reliable, professional providers becomes obvious.

Because fire protection is not a "consumer" good that people can try out, try different brands and decide which one they like, it is incumbent on the local government to take the initiative to ensure their well-being before an over-taxed system collapses.

I beleive that is the thrust of VS's point(s).

Vollies Suck

01-13-2004, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by BCFD in Philly
The core of the issue is the adequacy/inadequacy of the system charged with delivering the product known as public safety, in this case specifically fire suppression/prevention/education as well as emergency medical care.

It is was delivering laundry then "scratches" wouldn't matter.

If it was volunteering at the local senior center and showing up with 2 people instead of the usual 4 people it wouldn't matter.

Showing up in a timely manner with the resources and personnel does matter when an EMERGENCY has been reported to local authorities who are responsible for public safety.

As areas that once could rely on volunteerism for "fire service" grow and develop into megalopolises and fewer people are able/willing to VOLUNTARILY provide an acceptable level of service
the need for full-time, reliable, professional providers becomes obvious.

Because fire protection is not a "consumer" good that people can try out, try different brands and decide which one they like, it is incumbent on the local government to take the initiative to ensure their well-being before an over-taxed system collapses.

I beleive that is the thrust of VS's point(s).

Exactamundo...thanks!

SocialMember19

01-13-2004, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
Read my post above, please. Also, FYI, you do not do what I do, unless you work a scheduled number of hours fulltime, and perform other duties such as hydrant inspection and light maintenance, fire prevention inspections, fire drills, etc., etc., etc. There are many other differences between career and volunteer FDs, but suffice it to say that you are absolutely not my equal.

Your claim to be my equal is ridiculous on its face: if you have never been a professional firefighter, you have no basis for such a claim. (I, on the other hand, have been a vollie, and therefore have the experience upon which I base my opinions.) Furthermore, your claim is insulting to me, for it devalues my work: You are effectively saying that my brothers and I are not worth what the taxpayers pay us for our efforts, and that you could do the same job for free. (If you work for a living, imagine how you might feel if someone told your boss that he could do your job just as well as you for free.)

I note in your profile that you have just turned 20. I remember being an enthusiastic vollie at your age, but I never, not once, thought that I was the equal of career firefighters. When you are older, I hope you are a lot more mature and a lot less arrogant.

Excuse me, did I once say I was a firefighter? No..... I am just a measily little social member. I am 20 that is true. One another note I am not arrogant and I am very mature 20 yr old female. I did not once see or hear arrogance in my post. I am sick of the holier than thou career vs vollie pissiness posts that are posted on here. From now on, I am just going to ignore you and these posts. If you think I'm arrogant and immature, just look at yourself. Because I sensed arrogance in all your posts.

Vollies Suck

01-14-2004, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by SocialMember19
Excuse me, did I once say I was a firefighter? No..... I am just a measily little social member. I am 20 that is true. One another note I am not arrogant and I am very mature 20 yr old female. I did not once see or hear arrogance in my post. I am sick of the holier than thou career vs vollie pissiness posts that are posted on here. From now on, I am just going to ignore you and these posts. If you think I'm arrogant and immature, just look at yourself. Because I sensed arrogance in all your posts.

In your original post, you repeatedly used the pronoun "we" as in "We all do the same job..." and "we work our asses off to get the job done..." and "Whether youre career or volunteer we "basically" do the same job." So maybe that's why I thought you were a vollie. Now that you've admitted you are not, your opinions have even LESS validity; in fact they are worthless, since you have not only never done my job, you have never been a vollie either.

I have children older than you, and have been doing this job since long before you were born. You don't think it's a bit arrogant for you to tell me that you are my equal???

You can certainly choose to ignore me if you wish...that's a very typical reaction for someone who is arrogant and immature. I can see you closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears, and shouting "I can't hear you!" at the top of your lungs.

Chief601

01-14-2004, 10:29 AM

Vollie & Philly: I understand about delivering the goods and the timely response etc, etc....I can't argue with your good points. I think that both of you will agree that in your career departments you have some guys that are not delivering the best possible service to your "customers". That is a problem in every profession. We have the same problem where my department is located. Let me give you an example...we have members of our career staff that moonlight with us but are members of the HFD. HFD is touted to be one of the most agressive fire departments in the country. Most of these guys are worth thier weight in gold. We do have a few that can't seem to remember to wear their gear, how to use the on-board computer, have poor tactics etc...they deliver better service to HFD than to the community where they moonlight. There should be no difference. When a department rides the same rigs, is issued the same gear, has on-site, 24-7 combos of career and volunteer, trains on the same field and on the same day, works under the same chain of command, the customer shoud not and does not visibly see any difference in the delivery of service unless it is from one individual that stands out for the better or worse. I agree that a VFD in the city of Philly would be senseless as it would in Balto City, NYC, etc...but in Ass Lick, Tenn. it probably wouldn't make sense to have a career FD. Crews that are busy and see alot of technical and tactical emergencies are going to deliver the best of everything becasue your skills are sharpened every day. Put that same crew in the back woods where you get 3 calls per week and you become a little less on top of your game. It works both ways............career or vollie. You both stay safe!

Chief1

01-14-2004, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
I have children older than you, and have been doing this job since long before you were born...

Damm VS your getting old :D

Chief1

SocialMember19

01-14-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
In your original post, you repeatedly used the pronoun "we" as in "We all do the same job..." and "we work our asses off to get the job done..." and "Whether youre career or volunteer we "basically" do the same job." So maybe that's why I thought you were a vollie. Now that you've admitted you are not, your opinions have even LESS validity; in fact they are worthless, since you have not only never done my job, you have never been a vollie either.

I have children older than you, and have been doing this job since long before you were born. You don't think it's a bit arrogant for you to tell me that you are my equal???

You can certainly choose to ignore me if you wish...that's a very typical reaction for someone who is arrogant and immature. I can see you closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears, and shouting "I can't hear you!" at the top of your lungs.

Now thats conceided..... I have not ever closed my eyes stuck my fingers in my ears and have never yelled anything on the top of my lungs not even when I was younger. To ignore is not arrogant. To ignore is the best thing a mature adult would do. Try it sometime. Oh by the way I was a vollie but since 2 yrs ago going on 3 graduating from high school and going to college in another county, I since resigned as a vollie and I wanted my status to be social helping with fundrasiers and such when I am home. I can not make my 33% in calls for the months and yrs when I am at college. Kudos goes out to you for being in the fire business long before I was born. So was my father and mother and they are still to this day.

NoGun4U

01-14-2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by RED DEVIL
Volunteers do not do the inspections, mandatory training or paperwork requiered on the career side. support his/her family.

How long have you been off the Vol. Fire Force. I am not being rude or trying to start anything I am just simply trying to post the truth and my feelings. My Vol. fire company does training twice a week. no matter the day and time. WE A.) do have inspections, B.) we have to have Manditory Training (Twice a week) and thats after we have all the certs we need as well. C.) Fire Dispatch sends us threw fax are numbers and we do all the paper work of the incident ( the report, times and number and we have to write a report on what each individual did at the fire scene.) I think that we all do the same work and have our responsibilities.

RED DEVIL

01-14-2004, 06:23 PM

I dont see the volunteer depts doing the building inspections, fire prevention details, specilized training or paperwork of the career side. Im not knocking the volunteer service, its just that the time is not available for a volunteer dept to have 100% perticipation like on the career side.

NoGun4U

01-14-2004, 06:32 PM

vollies in paid companies for expample go through the same training and do the same thing as a paid members of the company in a paid company. The only thing that i can say would be different would be that Vollies dont have to be there, but most to all of the time they are. I understand that your not knocking on ayone and nethier am i bc i appreciate the work that paid FF's do, but i am with a dedicated bunch of people in both of my firestations and they put fourth amazing effort that you could compare some of the work we do to the work of a paif firefighter. I think we are both here to do the same job.

HOOKMAN

01-14-2004, 07:19 PM

this is my last reply on this boring ass thread to which i still have no clue why i keep coming back to it. its quite well known that vollies suck is the greatest word for word typer the watch desk has ever seen his posts are so eloquently written that i feel like a special ed hockey helmet wearing fireman compared to him and i cannot take the critisism from this fire eating and breathing dragon that i must stop here...but the real reason for writing this last reply was to say THE PACKERS SUCK ASS:D JUST KIDDING. but to whom ever and how many keep writing on this...if volunteers are that bad and u work with a combo dept go to your career fireman and ask them to work with you and see where u can do things better..im in a city fire dept where obvisously there are no vollies so thats a mute point. but i do still continue to volly in my combo/career fire dept where i do it so i give give back not only to the community but to help other volunteers with a little bit a i know. and trust me i love my job and where im at but dont let a career fireman tell u there the shit and just cuz u get paid to do the job doesnt mean there arent pieces of crap as well as so called loads in the career service who i would trade with any volunteer from my firehouse any day. some may lack alot of experience but ill there hard work and dedication over some fat load collecting a check. REMEMBER U NOT NEED A DEGREE FROM HARVARD FOR THIS JOB SOME JUST GOT LUCKY AND WENT THRU A PROCESS..HECK LOOK AT ME I GOT THE JOB:p PEACE

BCFD in Philly

01-14-2004, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by HOOKMAN
GREEN BAY 14 PHILLY ''ZERO'' hmmmits only the first half....oh yeah hows the game BDCFD IN PHILLY:rolleyes: ILL GET BACK TO YA DONT WORRY SLIM...:p

Hook:

This isn't fair. You said you would get back to me and now you say you are not going to post on this thread anymore. Oh well.

I was hoping you would post an update on the Eagles-Packer game.

HOOKMAN

01-14-2004, 10:07 PM

WELL BCFD IN PHILLY:rolleyes: I WAS IN MY VEHICLE heading home thinkin that my lead was secure and i could boast proudly when the fatal interception happened...i couldnt bare coming back to the watch desk and see myself being humiliated so i drove my 1984 pacer off the road to end it all...NO seriously i didnt do that i know u all beleived i did that but i swear no game would drive me to that...i will tell u if my true team the patriots freaken blow it im goin to due a trench cut on my torso when i check my ladder truck out the tour after the super bowl:p geez bcfd all i was doing was keepin everyone up to date on the score and the reason i couldnt write back to u sooner was that my cat urinated on my laptop and now it wont work so im taking my pc to the vet and getting it checked and the cat too. well i think we all know who won the game...now as far as u sittin in the suite for the game..hmmmm i believe u went to the game but ur a fireman and u dont make alot of money granted u do work part time but i do believe u know vinny the hot dog vendor who let u in the back door and that once in the stadium u walked past a suite on ur way to a couple empty seats u sat in.:D

SECURITY

01-14-2004, 10:43 PM

I HAVE RETURNED. ONE QUESTION HAVE YOU GUYS EVER THOUHGT THAT "VOLLIES SUCK" ISNT A HATEFUL NAME BUT RATHER A PROPOSITION

HOOKMAN

01-15-2004, 08:50 AM

hey security do u really LIVE IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER:D

Vollies Suck

01-15-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by SECURITY
I HAVE RETURNED. ONE QUESTION HAVE YOU GUYS EVER THOUHGT THAT "VOLLIES SUCK" ISNT A HATEFUL NAME BUT RATHER A PROPOSITION

It's an informed opinion based on personal observation.

Karl Childers

01-15-2004, 02:03 PM

you can't blame the loss on Favre. If Sherman would have gone for it on 4th down, the rest would have been history. But, like the old saying goes, if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass everytime he jumps.:cool:

HOOKMAN

01-15-2004, 08:58 PM

yeah karl that one play did them in...i just hope brett favre is no pete rose...i just dont want to hear favre ever say mr tagliabue i never bet on a nfl game:D

Fghtng5thFemale

02-29-2004, 04:31 PM

Posing as someone else on here is not only old, but extremely childish. Argue with him all you want to, but knock off the highschool bullshit.

Hopewell

03-02-2004, 12:16 AM

Hey Fghtng5th, what song is your quote from?

FireGurl5

03-02-2004, 01:36 AM

Fighting Fifth's quote is from Christina Aguleria's (sp?) song duet with Lil Kim.
I know the name but am having a brain cramp.

Since I am already posting-

1. This thread is a ridiculous waste of time and energy to read. (To those would-be smartasses out there, I have a ridiculous amount of time to waste right now or I wouldn't be here.)

2. Vollies Suck- Don't agree with you 100% but you have valid points, solid arguments and intelligent posts- rare on TWD.

3. Please, PLEASE do not try to rebute what other TWD posters are saying by making illiterate, nonsensical claims. (Hint: if any part of your profile, name or quote has the words "baby girl" in them, or if you fail to demonstrate even an eighth grader's grasp of the English language, you are not helping to prove your point.)

Personally, I am not going to weigh in on the "who's better" portion of this thread, but will only say that there are carrer and vollunteer firefighters out there and sometimes we have to [gasp!] work together- like it or not. If you have a hostile attitude toward the other, by engaging in these sophmoric battles you are only exacerbating the problem.

Vollies Suck

03-02-2004, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by FireGurl5
1. This thread is a ridiculous waste of time and energy to read. (To those would-be smartasses out there, I have a ridiculous amount of time to waste right now or I wouldn't be here.) 2. Vollies Suck- Don't agree with you 100% but you have valid points, solid arguments and intelligent posts- rare on TWD.
3. Please, PLEASE do not try to rebute what other TWD posters are saying by making illiterate, nonsensical claims. (Hint: if any part of your profile, name or quote has the words "baby girl" in them, or if you fail to demonstrate even an eighth grader's grasp of the English language, you are not helping to prove your point.)
Personally, I am not going to weigh in on the "who's better" portion of this thread, but will only say that there are carrer and vollunteer firefighters out there and sometimes we have to [gasp!] work together- like it or not. If you have a hostile attitude toward the other, by engaging in these sophmoric battles you are only exacerbating the problem.

Thanks for the compliment and for a well-thought-out post. I agree 100% with your points.

Fearless_371

03-02-2004, 02:46 AM

Definately VS.

He is arrogant, abnoxious, and annoying, just like me. Sit him in a meeting and the two of us would probably go at it, then go out to get a cup of coffee and shoot the shit.

He speaks his mind, always keeps to the same story, and as far as I have seen in the posts that I have read none of you have ever been able to twist his words around to make him a liar. Yes he and I have had our words no we will never 100% agree to everything, but that would just be boring.

Oh, and by the way, yes I do believe he is truely laughing at you all when you get all hot and bothered when someone you dont even know or ride/work with goads you into vulgarity and stupidity.

Pick and chose your battles.
Never let your opponent know your upset, because if you do, he has already won.

Fghtng5thFemale

03-02-2004, 08:47 AM

The name of the song is "Can't Hold Us Down."

ember

03-03-2004, 11:19 PM

vollies suck
I am a vollie to start off with and am proud of that fact. I can see your side very clearly and agree with you. Where I live we only have one career Fire Department. So my area relies on us vollies to take care of about 85-95% of the county. We dont have much of a choice hear. I tell you what if I were able to be a career firefighter I would be. I have no problems with eithor but do have to agree with ya on one aspect of it all that as vollies a lot of us (not myself) but a lot of us do have that problem of saying that "I am a firefighter" and leaving out the vollie part. I dont know who eithor of you are but if you are good at what you do and want to work side by side with me i would work with ya.

Seagrave Driver

03-05-2004, 11:00 AM

Vollies suck, Just to put my 2 cents in, I have been a VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER for 23 yrs. I started at 16 yrs old. I always wanted to be a FF or a Police Off. Just so happened the Police Dept. hired me first. I had to stop the processing for the fire dept because I couldn't miss time from the police academy to go to my interview, physical ect. I often wondered if I was making the right choice.
But then I decided if I stayed with the Police Dept and continued to volly I could do both.
I never did claim to be a paid FF and I never had lights or stickers on my personal vehicle and I only wore my fire dept uniform at the fire house. also I always thought of the guys who did that stuff as "squirlly". But I ALWAYS WAS AND STILL AM DAMN PROUD TO BE A VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER. And you childish screen name and holier than thou attitude will never change the feelings of myself and other vollies.
I just recently learned of TWD and today was the first time I saw the uncensored forum, but it is apparent that you need a hobby. Would you like an application to the firehouse?

Real firetrucks are red!

PimpOnDuty

03-05-2004, 11:47 AM

I agree with whoever it was that said you have to look beyond his name at what he says. It's like an initial test. If you can force yourself to quell the rage you get when you hear that "Vollies Suck" from someone, and read what he says (which is actually cannon and solid debate material.)

So many people dislike him, but I've yet to see a valid argument come out of it without someone throwing personal attacks. I don't blame him for not telling us where he's from. Knowing half the wacked out people on this board, I wouldn't be suprised if harrassment wouldn't come from it.

Kind of reminds me of Douglas Gantenbein. (The writer of Smoke and Mirrors: Stop calling firefighters "heroes." A very controversial article from October on Slate.com) Mr. Gantenbein offended thousands, and someone put his home information up on the board. He was then tormented for weeks by pissed off, and I will even say childish "firefighters" because he made an article that was rock solid. I didn't agree with it, but with the information he used, (obviously doing his homework) I couldn't prove it wrong.

TWD is just a giant debate team. Reminds me of high school. I was team captain. It's all about using cannon information to prove the other wrong. Show me that person, and I would think that VS would respect them. Affiliation or not.

oh, ::throws two pennies on the table::

No limit baby, consider me "all in"

ohfrmn89

03-05-2004, 02:08 PM

i'm kinda new to this site also so i'm not going to make any remarks on whos better vollies or career. i will say i agree with what bullgod said in here back in january "were all here to do the same job". my self i'm not career as in full time. i do however work part time on station and also run vollie for my dept. here in ohio. my opinion is we do just as good as our neighboring carrer dept. if not better at doing our jobs. we have medics on the scene or the first out truck on fire runs in average of 3-5 minutes from time of dispatch. none the less our district covers only 2 square miles but we have a major interstate and very busy roadways through our area. most (at least 90%) of our firefighters are at least ff1 certified. at least half are also medics. so like i said before i'm not knocking anybody career or volunteer. we're all here to protect our citizens to the best of our ability whether we our getting paid to be on station or come from home.

ember

03-06-2004, 03:49 AM

I think that we all need to see past the name vs and past his views and opinions and realize that he has the right to speak his mind as well as we all do. we should all respect him for that and be respected about our opinions. I do agree with him on alot of the aspects of being a vollie and yes I will state again that i am a vollie and love it but at the same time hate it. I know a few people that do have the lights and all that stuff and think they are totaly out of there mind. My hubby is a paid and a vollie and he loves both. He is sick of alot of the vollies tellin him that he needs to spend all of his spair time there and not with his family. He once told them what u gonna do fire me go a head the pay isnt that good any way. I myself do not spend every waking moment at the station but am there when i can.

vs i beleve that you have gotten to that point and said that the paid aspect is the best thing for you i see your point and maybe now some others will to.

Vollies Suck

03-07-2004, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by Seagrave Driver
Vollies suck, Just to put my 2 cents in, I have been a VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER for 23 yrs. I started at 16 yrs old. I always wanted to be a FF or a Police Off. Just so happened the Police Dept. hired me first.

Wow, what a coincidence. I wanted to be a cop too, but they disqualified me when they found out my parents were married.

Vollies Suck

03-07-2004, 03:50 AM

Reply to PimpOnDuty and Ember: Thanks for reading past my name and actually paying attention to some of what I have written, also for respecting my right to speak my mind. Ember, those people that you think are out of their minds are the ones who inspired my name.

Pimp, it was funny you mentioned that article by Gantenbein...I read it and could not deny that he made some very good points, even though I cringed at reading much of what he had to say. I also thought he was pretty gutsy writing what he did, knowing that he was gonna piss off so many people.

To ohfrmn89, I'm really glad your VFD has its act together, but in a lot of places that isn't the case at all.

PimpOnDuty

03-07-2004, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
Reply to PimpOnDuty and Ember: Thanks for reading past my name and actually paying attention to some of what I have written, also for respecting my right to speak my mind. Ember, those people that you think are out of their minds are the ones who inspired my name.

Pimp, it was funny you mentioned that article by Gantenbein...I read it and could not deny that he made some very good points, even though I cringed at reading much of what he had to say. I also thought he was pretty gutsy writing what he did, knowing that he was gonna piss off so many people.

To ohfrmn89, I'm really glad your VFD has its act together, but in a lot of places that isn't the case at all.

After reading the responses, Gantenbein got, and TRYING to defeat his post. I had to talk to him. I ended up having a 2 week long E-Mail conversation about his views on Journalism, Firefighting, and "heroes." As much as I also cringed when I read it, he turned out to be an okay guy. What can I say, I'm an EMS major and a Journalism minor at Drexel University. No one said it was gonna be easy.

Seagrave Driver

03-08-2004, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
Wow, what a coincidence. I wanted to be a cop too, but they disqualified me when they found out my parents were married.
What is that supposed to mean?

I doubt you could do my job, seems like your a coward.

Vollies Suck

03-09-2004, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Seagrave Driver
I doubt you could do my job, seems like your a coward.

Yes, I am a coward...scared to death I might fall off one of those slippery stools at Krispy Kreme!

Lighten up, babe, are you really that thin-skinned?

FireGurl5

03-09-2004, 06:34 PM

I don't agree with, but I understand, your problem with volunteer firefighters. But disrespecting Police Officers? Wow. I don't care how your phrase it or what your reasons are. That is just ignorant.

Fearless_371

03-10-2004, 01:44 AM

and calling a man of whom you have not clue as to is ability to work a job that has just as many risks a coward, is that not just as ignorant? Cops and firefighters have and always will bust each others balls. Respect is earned not given to someone because the have a badge, and that goes for all.

Vollies Suck

03-10-2004, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by FireGurl5
I don't agree with, but I understand, your problem with volunteer firefighters. But disrespecting Police Officers? Wow. I don't care how your phrase it or what your reasons are. That is just ignorant.

Firegurl, I am the son-in-law of a cop, the brother of a cop, two of the guys in my wedding were cops, I have a number of other close friends who are cops, etc., etc., etc....

Like Fearless said, we bust each others' balls all the time. Lighten up, for heaven's sake....

FireGurl5

03-10-2004, 02:39 AM

VS-

Just re-read your post and originally overlooked the last line.

Sorry about that.

P.S. Fearless- Taken at face value, the two comments made were sterotypical. They had nothing to do with Seagrave Driver personally. How would you like it if someone said on a PO Forum that they couldn't be a firefighter because they didn't like to sleep all day or some other dumb generalization. That was my point. Nothing more.

Fearless_371

03-10-2004, 03:04 AM

firegurl,
I have been called and I quote, "an overweight lazy spagetti dinner eatin' good for nuthin' load of a fire fighter." and that was from an ass crack showing, overpaid, underqualified, money grubbing master plumber. Who happens to be a pretty good friend. Yes the are all for the most part stereotypical comments, and when it is made in jest it is fine. It one of the things that make us all able to do what we do. No harm no foul, most of us here have tougher skin than we type out to have.

Bobby Boucher

03-10-2004, 11:06 PM

pardon me for interrupting, but what is this thread even discussing?

i would love to jump in here, so VS where do you need me?

BB

Fearless_371

03-11-2004, 12:04 AM

You just had to jump in to stir the pot didnt ya BB?

LOL
Be Safe All!

Bobby Boucher

03-11-2004, 12:08 AM

you know me!

funny thing is, i was just on another thread saying how calm things on here have been. i am such a hypocrite!

in a way though, i do miss checking on here to see what people had put on here to rebut what i said.

guess i will have to join VS's fight to get any action going for myself?

well?????

BB

Fghtng5thFemale

03-11-2004, 05:38 PM

I think VS is pretty good at handling his own battles.

ohfrmn89

03-11-2004, 07:50 PM

vs thank you for the compliment on my dept. we are a combination paid and also on-call dept. state of ohio laws require anyone that is working part time on station to have a minimum of 72 hours (used to be called 1-b...now ff1) since alot of our people that work on station part time also run from home alot of us got ff1 training. to just run from home period and not work on station you're required to have a minimum of 36 hr training which really ain't crap. all of our officers and some of our part timers too are trained ff2 which was equivalent to the old 240 hr course ohio said you had to have to work full time. we also have medics on station 24/7. i guess our one big advantage over everything is we are primarily a residential/ small industrial area covering just over 2 square miles. we also have good working relationships with our neighboring depts and automatic dispatches on most fire related calls to help make up for lack of manpower especially during the daytime hours. i do agree with you though some vollie depts aren't worth a crap i saw one while traveling through virginia that couldn't put out a house fire it seemed if there life depended on it. but i guess like your sign off says you get what you pay for.

Vollies Suck

03-12-2004, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Bobby Boucher
pardon me for interrupting, but what is this thread even discussing? i would love to jump in here, so VS where do you need me? BB

I'm okay, thanks! This thread started out as a serious slam at me, but it's generated some interesting comments and discussion. No problemo, as Ahnold would say...

Seagrave Driver

03-13-2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by FireGurl5
I don't agree with, but I understand, your problem with volunteer firefighters. But disrespecting Police Officers? Wow. I don't care how your phrase it or what your reasons are. That is just ignorant.
Thanks firegurl for taking up for me. But my feelings are not hurt. I have been a Police in a large city Dept for 12 yrs and hear much worse every day.
All my friends are also Police, Career FF's, Vol.FF's or some combination of 2 of the 3.
It is true we bust each other's balls all the time. I do think Mr VS crosses that line with some of his post's and it puts people on the defensive. I admit I dont like seeing the Vol. with the stickers all over his car and helmet in the window ect.
This is why I only read this site for a year or so before I posted on it. There is so much stupid bullshit written on it. and this thread is the worst. I told myself I wouldnt get into this stupid back and forth bickering. So I think I will go back to my countys thread and stay out of the name games with certain people. A little ribbing is fun, but some other comments on here are not worthy of a reply.

FireGurl5

03-22-2004, 04:05 AM

Originally posted by Fearless_371
firegurl,
...and that was from an ass crack showing, overpaid, underqualified, money grubbing master plumber.

Funny you should pick that profession- my husband is a plumber.

medic5

03-27-2004, 04:29 PM

HAZWOPER

04-02-2004, 12:42 AM

I chose VS because he's a good speller and utilizes proper grammer in his sentance structure. He, at the very least, appears educated.

aardvark

04-02-2004, 03:28 AM

HAZWOPER,

Who's gonna' help ya'll with your grammar !!!???

Gosh darnit

HAZWOPER

04-05-2004, 01:10 AM

That was a typo...nobody's perfect.

Vollies Suck

04-05-2004, 01:44 AM

Rumor has it that VS is really a volunteer asst. chief in Baltimore County!!!!! Hot off the press from some of his co-workers. Seems like he jumps names from WalterWinchel to Alfred E Newman, and now this. Perhaps someone from Balto County Station 41 can help me out on this one.

Rumor -- or is that fact? -- has it that Medic 5 is an egomaniacal pervert who takes photos of dead people and gets thrown out of various volunteer fire companies. His problems started when he sat in the church and played with himself while his parents got married.

Word to the wise: Don't believe everything you read on TWD.

Vollies Suck

04-05-2004, 01:46 AM

I chose VS because he's a good speller and utilizes proper grammer in his sentance structure. He, at the very least, appears educated.

Hazwoper, thanks for the vote of confidence. FYI, I'm a lot less educated than most of the rest of you. I just paid attention back in the Dark Ages when my teachers were beating the English language into me!

HAZWOPER

04-07-2004, 11:52 PM

So, you're the other one!

medic5

04-09-2004, 12:46 PM

VS... if you're going to spout, get it right shitstain. I took a picture of one body, it was one fire dept. thrown out of. One would think that the almighty wise one such as yourself would have been able to read that statement over a year ago when you decided to use the same bash. Wow, I'm so hurt T.C.

P.S. When my parents got married, I was still swimming. Unlike you, I don't have a heritage of bastards to follow such as your family. And with that said, I'm sure you wouldn't have to worry about a wedding in your mother's plans, didn't you appear on Maury Povich with her to do paternity tests for 7 different men?

By the way, how do you like being a dispatcher in Carroll County?

JR

Vollies Suck

04-09-2004, 12:57 PM

Roberts, you're not only a sick pervert, you're not even very entertaining or original. Nobody even laughs at your silly writing, you know. In fact you've become kind of pitiful.

Your posts reek of a desperate need to lash out, and reveal to everyone that you have a lot of bottled-up hostility. You seem to need some really serious couch time with a shrink. Get some help.

BTW, I've never been in Carroll County. Keep guessing, jerk.

medic5

04-09-2004, 06:01 PM

Sure you haven't been to Carroll County. It's ok, I won't tell the boys from Station 4 that you need to have some phone calls made to you again. Got you to stop posting under your last 3 names.

Hopewell

04-10-2004, 12:50 AM

Sure you haven't been to Carroll County. It's ok, I won't tell the boys from Station 4 that you need to have some phone calls made to you again. Got you to stop posting under your last 3 names.What in the world are you talking about? What other names? :confused:

If you're going to call out someone, it's only fair you be able to prove it.

Vollies Suck

04-14-2004, 11:56 AM

What in the world are you talking about? What other names? :confused:

If you're going to call out someone, it's only fair you be able to prove it.

He can't help it; he's been off his medication lately.

Axesr4choppin

05-25-2004, 11:12 PM

Hey VS, what's going on here??? I see you and security are tied!! What a disservice to you! Lol! :D

Vollies Suck

05-27-2004, 01:16 AM

Hey VS, what's going on here??? I see you and security are tied!! What a disservice to you! Lol! :D

Democracy is a beautiful thing! LOL!

paramedic 35

05-27-2004, 04:31 PM

Vollies Suck unlike many vollies on here, your name does not offend me. It is simply you exercising your rights allowed by the Constitution. I can't say that I agree with everything you say, which is my right, but I respect your opinion.

While I have been a vollie for about 17 years, it is not because I have not tried to go paid. After passing the test 3 times and being in the top ten all three times I was passed over by the only paid dept. in my area. They seemed to prefer wet behind the ears paramedics, with or without fire training, so they could teach them to do things their way, rather than someone with many years experience.

After three times I gave up and settled for a career as a paid Paramedic, and now, a Supervisor.

I still volunteer as both a Firefighter & Paaramedic in a county where there are no paid companies. The closest paid dept. is across the state line and they do not leave their city limits unless it is for a "gut bucket" mutual aid run (It's a money issue). I am proud to be a volunteer and have never been one to pick and choose what calls I wanted to respond on. Unfortunately the same can not be said of the volunteer services, as a whole.

Everyone comes out for a good call (fully involved structure, mvc with entrapment, water rescue, etc..). Many will roll over and go back to bed when the high temp at the Nursing Home comes in. It seems like those of us, so called, old-timers are a dieing breed. The younger generation, for the most part, are not as dedicated to the service as we were at their age. They "want" but don't want to "give". This, in itself, is leading to the erosion, and possibly, the demise of the volunteer fire service. In many rural areas it is already evident in EMS. Paid companies are taking over more and more areas in an effort to provide the service the people need. Luckily for them the ambulance business is a money-maker, if run properly.

Some of you younger members out there are going to read this and say that I don't know what I am talking about. Do Not get me wrong. I have met and worked with a lot of young, dedicated volunteers. Many of them are still very active. Just as many have washed out, burned out, or been run off by the internal bickering that is present in many vol. companies.

The message I am trying to get across is that the younger members are the ones who have to step up to the plate and show their dedication, not only to their companies, but to the ever-changing technologies and challenges before the firefighters of today. Paid or Volunteer, it should not matter. I know some paid guys who are in it for the paycheck and the many days off only. This is no different than any other job. In the fire service, though, the "oh well, I don't need to learn anything new" attitude can get you and everyone around you killed.

Paid firefighters have the advantage of being able to train when they are on duty, and getting paid. This does not justify volunteers not getting the training they need to stay in the game and stay competetive. It all comes down to dedication. The various volunteer companies I have ran with over the years have been so different. They have ranged from one that was lucky to have 1 working fire per year in their first due area, to one that had 3 working fires in a week. Unfortunately the one that ran the fewest fires was the one that trained for it the most, and did the best job when the need arose.

Again, it all comes back to dedication.

In closing, and on the record, I may not agree with you on everything, but your honesty and passion for your convictions are impressive. I would take a few like you in my station, anytime.

Vollies Suck

05-30-2004, 09:19 PM

Vollies Suck unlike many vollies on here, your name does not offend me. It is simply you exercising your rights allowed by the Constitution. I can't say that I agree with everything you say, which is my right, but I respect your opinion.....In closing, and on the record, I may not agree with you on everything, but your honesty and passion for your convictions are impressive. I would take a few like you in my station, anytime.

Paramedic 35, thanks for your kind words. Thanks even more for your careful reading of what I've said (rather than simply reacting to my name) and your well-considered and very well written response.

Your post illustrates many of the problems facing the volunteer fire service in the US today. Modern fire and EMS systems are so busy, even in rural communities, that it is very difficult to rely on volunteers to perform those services. It is not fair to the citizens who need help, or to the vollies themselves, to assign such awesome responsibility to people who might or might not be available when needed. And when they are available, it is extremely unfair, in the case of EMS, to dispatch an ambulance manned by volunteers on a call, and then as soon as that call is cleared, send them on another call and another and another, as if those people have no lives, no jobs, etc., etc. Yet that happens all the time, in many jurisdictions.

What keeps volunteer systems in place is not that they work well -- truth to tell, many if not most do not work well at all -- but that they are relatively cheap to run. The single biggest expense in any professional fire department is salaries and benefits, typically eating up more than 90% of the budget. Using volunteers saves money, no question about it. The only problem is that the volunteer system cannot do the same job as a career system.

Changing a volunteer system is difficult. VFDs in many communities are centers of social and political power, and springboards to election for some people. For other people they are a source of prestige and ego enhancement. Still others have figured out how to make money being vollies, by selling goods and services to their individual fire companies. While people volunteer for many reasons, the bottom line is they are loathe to give that up, and will fight tooth and nail any suggestion for reform or change. Part of that effort to resist change involves denying publicly that any problems exist, even while conceding privately that change is desperately needed. This, of course, confuses the public, and has the effect of masking the need for change.

Politicians are a huge part of this problem too. It is they who set policy for the FDs in their cities or towns, and they who ultimately are responsible for the failure of existing systems to provide a proper level of fire and EMS protection. But they will do anything to avoid raising taxes, and as long as volly leaders assure them nothing is wrong, they can avoid taking the heat for the failures of their systems. It's a vicious cycle that usually ends only when some serious tragedy occurs and whacks people over the head.

What you describe is happening all over the US, not just in West Virginia. Hang in there and continue to do your best. Thanks for your dedication and your service to your community. I hope they appreciate it.

omahaorange

05-31-2004, 10:10 PM

I agree with a lot of what Vollies Suck has to say, realizing you have to read his posts to get his point. As a real world example of what he just said, I managed an EMS station in a rural area, with one truck and one crew on duty 24/7. This station was taken over from the local VFD. Our general rule at that time was it took 1000 calls per year per crew to break even. When I was transfered there the call volume was about 450 per year. Through expansion of the service area, including a second area given up by another VFD (still using only the one crew) the call volume peaked at about 730 per year, averaging about 600 per year during my ten years there. This station lost approximately $300,000 per year. Payroll and insurance cost were roughly the same $300,000 per year. A volunteer station would have broke even, but without the support of the large EMS service the expansion would never have occurred, the call volume would have remained at about 300-350 per year, the population would not have gotten an ALS crew on every call, and responses were not delayed or scratched waiting for personnel to answer/arrive at station. This station, at the time I was transferred to another area, covered approximately 99 square miles with a population base of about 8500 people.

paramedic 35

06-01-2004, 09:35 AM

omahaorange, I understand where you are coming from. It is very hard to make money, much less break even when all you run is 911. I do not know the geographics of your area, but, if feasible, I might suggest getting into the convalescent business. The company I work for has 6 stations in 3 states. 1 of them has a 911 first due area and they struggle financially. My station is contracted with both of the hospitals in our area. We do both convalescent and inter-facility transports and consistently show a profit.
I know that this would mean adding more crews but, if feasible, might be the answer to your financial woes.

omahaorange

06-01-2004, 07:33 PM

paramedic35, I agree with you completely. You may have misunderstood my post, although you are right in what you say. I work for a non-profit company running 10 stations. We run both 911 calls and routine transfers. The station I referred to was just an example of how tough it is for the volunteers to make a go of it, as Vollies Suck stated in his last post. We were given this area by the local VFD, and subsequently a neighboring department also gave up its area to us. Out of those 10 stations, three actually make money, one breaks even, and six lose varying amounts. As a service we are currently solvent, but only because of the size and scope of our system. We average between 50,000 and 60,000 calls per year.