FDNY Pierces?

[pgmisfit9]

On a couple of other message boards, there is some discussion about a Pierce Arrow XT being ordered/built for FDNY. I'm not trying to be a rumor spreader, but as a Pierce and FDNY Buff, does anyone have the low down on this??

[Forrest]

I hadn't heard that, but I did read something that hinted that they weren't happy with the E-one Rescues and supposedly a Pierce Rescue was on the way for Rescue 1 to try out. I don't know how true that is. I couldn't find any news about that on Pierce's website.

[OCNYFireBuff]

There has been talk (to the point of blueprints allegedly being drawn up) about purchasing ONE Pierce Arrow XT heavy rescue for evaluation. However, contrary to popular opinion, as of a couple of weeks ago, it has not yet been officially ordered. This from people considered to be very reliable sources. Same people say that the rumor of the order (and possibly the whole story itself) comes from.....the local Pierce rep, of all people!

Now, you can't blame the guy for wanting to get his foot in the door on what could be a potentially lucrative account (FDNY) but is starting and spreading stuff like this a good way to get anywhere? Methinks not.

On a similar note.....for as unhappy as they supposedly are with Seagrave's service lately (numerous units OOS for looooong periods of time awaiting repairs), I wonder if they'd consider checking out an Arrow XT engine as well? Weren't they supposedly meant for big dep'ts with large call volume? I seem to recall wording to that effect in the press release when the XT came out.

[RM7317]

"Now, you can't blame the guy for wanting to get his foot in the door on what could be a potentially lucrative account (FDNY)......."

There is nothing "potentially lucrative" about selling apparatus to ANY department the size of FDNY. The first thing that normally happens is the manufacturer turns it into a "house account" meaning all pricing etc. comes right out of the factory. The factory will TELL the dealer how much they're gonna make on each truck, and trust me in that situation it isn't much. Then you have the monumental pain in the ass of moving that much equipment through your dealership (or field servicing it) and taking care of all of the "little things" that will present themselves.

Trust me, you're much further ahead selling one or two at a time to small departments.

[pgmisfit9]

[QUOTE=RM7317
Trust me, you're much further ahead selling one or two at a time to small departments.[/QUOTE]

We all know about the companies that are nothing but FDNY followers. I'm sure if FDNY started buying Pierces... there's sure to be companies starting to sell off their current Seagrave rigs to move up to the "new" FDNY standard. I wonder if Pierce can even make a truck that simply in form and function?!?!?!?

[11927]

Baltimore now has an all Pierce engine fleet. They also have nothing but problems with their 2 seagrave rearmounts and nothing but praise from their pierce one.

[Bourkes]

"Now, you can't blame the guy for wanting to get his foot in the door on what could be a potentially lucrative account (FDNY)......."

There is nothing "potentially lucrative" about selling apparatus to ANY department the size of FDNY. The first thing that normally happens is the manufacturer turns it into a "house account" meaning all pricing etc. comes right out of the factory. The factory will TELL the dealer how much they're gonna make on each truck, and trust me in that situation it isn't much. Then you have the monumental pain in the ass of moving that much equipment through your dealership (or field servicing it) and taking care of all of the "little things" that will present themselves.

Trust me, you're much further ahead selling one or two at a time to small departments.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't this what happened to MACK fire apparatus supplying the FDNY for many years?

[RM7317]

I've never really dug into what the reasoning was behind Mack getting out of the fire apparatus business, I guess it just never occurred to me to find out.

I do know that after Mack left (or as Mack was leaving) the business that FDNY wrote a set of specs for all of the various apparatus types that they use that would take them "into the forseeable future". Somewhere around here, I've got the entire story of how these new (current day) specs evolved. It's really very interesting reading. I don't remember how many builders actually built rigs to these specs in an attempt to land the contract, but it wasn't very many. They are very "tight" specs, and extremely well written. Notice, if you will, that Ferrera's FDNY rigs look very much like FDNY Seagraves (a lot more so than they look like ANY Ferrera).

I doubt seriously that you will ever see Pierce XT's, Saber's, Dash's, Lance's or whatever plying the streets of New York. At some point in the future (barring any major changes to FDNY specs as currently written) you MAY see Pierce apparatus in FDNY, but they're gonna look a whole lot like the current Seagraves.

I had a Seagrave person tell me that about the only thing that an FDNY Seagrave and a Seagrave built for "Any City USA" have in common is the Seagrave nameplate. While Seagrave is going through a "rough stretch" right now with FDNY, the other side of their business is doing well. They have managed to keep the two sides of their business seperate (as much as possible), and in the end are still building one of the best apparatus available.

The Rescue Company trucks are the exception to all of the above. Those specs have been redone at least twice, and are probably being redone now. You may very easily see a Pierce Arrow XT rescue or two (or five) in FDNY before all is said and done, and they may very well become the new "standard" for those units.

[OCNYFireBuff]

"Now, you can't blame the guy for wanting to get his foot in the door on what could be a potentially lucrative account (FDNY)......."

There is nothing "potentially lucrative" about selling apparatus to ANY department the size of FDNY. The first thing that normally happens is the manufacturer turns it into a "house account" meaning all pricing etc. comes right out of the factory. The factory will TELL the dealer how much they're gonna make on each truck, and trust me in that situation it isn't much. Then you have the monumental pain in the ass of moving that much equipment through your dealership (or field servicing it) and taking care of all of the "little things" that will present themselves.

Trust me, you're much further ahead selling one or two at a time to small departments.

Hmmm.....never really thought about it that way. Does make sense.

As for Mack, I seem to recall they were having issues with the new engines they were coming out with in the early 90's not going to fit into the current chassis, and it was going to be too cost prohibitive to redesign the whole thing, so they gave it up. Can still get apparatus on their commercial Granite and MR chassis, though.

[Bourkes]

I have to admit I miss seeing the "old dog" on the streets of NYC. They had character.
Thanks for the good information,RM7317 & OCNYFireBuff.

[fdnyguy]

Main problem with Mack, was they were bought out by the Damn French (i.e. Renault), Fire apparatus wasnt making enough money, so that was the end of that.. (maybe union issues too???).... CF wasnt going to meet some NFPA regs, (noise, etc) so it was given up. And really, only one buying CF's was Baker. RHI that Mack told Baker to buy a certain number of CF's a year. Baker couldnt guarantee. Since there was no money coming in, why spend to redesign??? (Damn NFPA..lol) Pemfab was selling rigs on Mack Chassis, they shoulda bought the blueprints for the CF (ala Ahren Fox/C), modified it,and woulda been good to go, IMO.

As for Seagrave, Seagrave has to do warranty work for 5 yrs... heres the fun part. If it isnt a Seagrave part,(Detroit, Allison, Waterous), now THEY have to send someone out or the rig goes there.. Seagrave pays their reps 15 bucks an hour.. not knocking those guys, but Seagrave ya get what ya pay for.

nothing for nothin, but the Mack chassis always held up on a NYC street. BRING BACK THE BULLDOG!!!!!!!!!!

[TaskForce]

229 lives....

[CUTTINHOLES]

http://pumpfire.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=units&action=display&thread=1165510085&page=1

RES1CUE Pierce Heavy Rescue Squad....

[SM5279]

With the size of the Rescue Co apparatus, the weight they carry, lots of runs, distances traveled on those runs and the conditions of the NYC streets...can any manufacturer build anything to last in those conditions...just a thought...

[Towerhook]

Below is a story from Firematic.com bases on Long Island about, Pierce & FDNY

FDNY New York, New York
Many people do not realize that Firematic has had a service based working relationship with FDNY for over 30 years. With that in mind that we are proud to have received an order (via GSA - model 289) for a new Pierce Arrow XT™ HDR for FDNY Rescue 1. We know we would not have been given their opportunity to work with FDNY on this project had we not earned their confidence during our past endeavors.

Yes, everyone knows Pierce is the leader in the industry, and yes it is easy to highlight the advantages of the Pierce Arrow XT™ chassis. But in the end, this project is all about providing key solutions to problems as identified by FDNY. This particular rig has over 270 customized options just for FDNY.

Firematic is a seasoned apparatus service provider. We are one of only five companies in the United States to have achieved platinum battalion sales and service levels. Still, providing a rig to FDNY RESCUE 1 is an apparatus dealer's Super Bowl.

People talk about "war" stories in this industry all the time. Well ... no where are there more stories than FDNY. These stories provide a road map to success. We can utilize the previous experiences of the FDNY technical services group as a bench mark, and provide components that FDNY has specified and feels are best in class.

Stay tuned ... we will be unveiling the actual finished product here on Firematic.com. At that time we will provide complete details and specifications for those interested.

These are many rumors floating around regarding this project. If you have a direct question feel free to e-mail phanratty@firematic.com. We will make sure you get the straight scoop!



Check out firematic.com for the same story and photos

[227Assistant2]

I was in Appleton WI, back in I think Nov. and took some pictures of FDNY's new Pierce Arrow XT™ HDR. The thing is CRAZY. If the pic's suck, its because they are from my cell phone.