CAFS...Fad or Fact...

[LtDad]

Compressed Air Foam Systems....are they worth the cost or are they just a fad...Kinda like "Rescue engines"....as if they were to become a real Heavy Rescue apparatus....

[HillbillyHeaven]

Have seen some guys down in NY use it. Works vey good. If you use class A you will be impressed how much better a CAFS works.

Don't think it is a fad. The boys out west have been using it for years with great success. We are just slow to use it on this side of the country.

Hope this helps.

[Towerhook]

I'm not sure on what type of foam, but about 10 years ago Salem FD had a live burn for (I think Elkhart), it provided quicker knockdowns, but the heat remained with small-obstructed fires. One instructor received burns to his hands. You should contact them. The one thing that impressed me was that the foam, out in the lawn lasted about 20hrs until it was washed away. But it is a hefty price, I think its about $25.000. But like HillbillyHeaven said the west had been using it for years. You should contact some of them. Good luck and keep us posted.

[MTFD515]

Quaker Hill in waterford just placed their new engine with CAFS in service. they conducted a live fire training with CAFS and had some positive findings.

[wsfd44]

In my humble opinion, I have this nagging thought that CAFS is kinda like high pressure fog, water conservation and some other fads we have had over the past several decades.... We are cyclic in the fire service. Yes, the wildland folks have had excellent results with CAFS. However, unless you have it on all your apparatus, or guarantee that the CAFS engine is first in, the value diminishes exponentially. A neighboring agency of ours has been trying to fix theirs for at least two years.

[HillbillyHeaven]

I would say you are correct about some fads. A CAFS is much different than the high pressure system of saving water. It is made to save water but the way it does is much different than high pressure. If you do not have a CAFS you can do some training with, watch some training videos and see how quick it can put a knock on a fire. There are also many articles on CAFS in all of our trade magazines.

I think the older systems were not designed that well. With anything, over time R&D will make it better. The newer CAFS are much better than the older ones. I don't think you need to have a FH full of CAFS pumps. Yes if you are system with mult. stations and apparatus the chances that one engine is first in will be slim. For smaller departments one engine can work just fine.

My department has been using class A for over 10 years with great results. A department next to us has been using class A for 7 years and has nothing but problems. Some of it comes down to training and knowing how the system works. Not using it has probably given them a lot of the mechanical problems. They can't figure out why our system always works and works well. With anything we use in our job, we must know how it works and use it. CAFS is the same way. Many people are reluctant to use it because they truly don't know how it works or its benefits.

[jackas93]

cafs, If you use at a fire , It's either foam or water . You can't have one dept sparying foam and one sparying water. Max injection pressure on the foam system is 150, so if your pump is pushing 150 for high demand it won't work. LTDAD if you want to see it work ask the dept next door

[wsfd44]

Don't misinterpret my comment...CAFS certainly has merit.. However, the added initial cost and upkeep has not impressed me that much. We carry Class 'A" on two pumps, but they are eductor driven. We have worked with the neighbor when their CAFS WAS working, and I can tell you that it makes a neat application out of the 'Scope as well as handlines. They have had multiple problems with their CAFS apparatus and have yet to find a solution from the builder, and run it as a standard engine.

[CAF ATTACK]

As you can see by my name, I am very much in favor of CAFS. We have had our system three years, and it has been nothing but great for us. The reduced water use(were averaging about 700gal on residential fires since starting with caf) is only one aspect. The decreased weight of the line (1 3/4" line 150' weighs about 30#), the reduced surcface tension (10dynnes cm2). A 3 second blast in a fully involved room will usualy knock it down. Our rekindle rate is 0% using cafs. I'm from PA and it took a while to be accepted in my county. When we bought ours it was only the second unit, now there are 6, and more are considering. Anyone with questions about it feel free to email me.

[jackas93]

Rekindle rate of 0% with cafs is good but we can do that with water, But the rest of the information is right

[Boris]

You have all probably seen these already but just in case....

http://www.cafsinfo.com/St._Johns_Burn_Photo_file.html

http://www.cafsinfo.com/Creosote-lumber-fire.html

http://www.cafsinfo.com/

[justtruckin']

keep it in the woods were it belongs. Not enough fires anymore to justify the cost.
If you need foam to do overhaul and stop rekindles, then your dept is a joke.

[LtDad]

Amen........

[seagrave24]

ill say it over and over...


Go Seagrave or Go Home

[HillbillyHeaven]

Not on here to bash anyone but I don't think anyone said the only reason for CAFS is so we don't have rekindles or so we don't have to do overhaul. There are other reasons for the CAFS in the fire service.

Justtruckin', do you know how many FFs had the same attitude about equipment that you probably use on every job, unless you ride in an open cab and wear a rubber rain coat! If there is not enough fires anymore, then why are we spending more money for fire suppression equipment than ever before. I'm sure the home or business owner that has a fire would be happy if thier property had less heat and water damage from a CAFS system.

Not saying it is the cure all. Just like anything we carry it is another tool but you need to know how to use it and use your FF common sense.

[jackas93]

The only reason the prices are so high now is homeland money

[HillbillyHeaven]

Down here not much grant money being spent. Large tax base and standard of service is increasing. The tax payer wants everthing they are entitled to.

[justtruckin']

cafs is just another money maker for fire equip dealers

also making fire service weaker

Try to do a search in a house full of foam

this is a rich man's fad

[HillbillyHeaven]

How is CAFS making the fire service weaker?

CAFS does not fill a house full of foam, it is not high expansion. Do you have experience doing a search when CAFS was used? I would really like to hear of your experience.

Full PPE, radios and lightweight SCBA was a rich man's fad at one time too.

[jackas93]

.05% foam + 50gpm= mess . What did you do 20 years ago , Let shit burn because you didn't have foam . I think it should be left at the airports.