Non-credential'd fire ground officers

[nudefirefighter]

I've been reading the threads posted on the Stafford County (Virginia) web page and have done some research to check their authenticity. Stafford has a Fire Chief at one of their companies who has zero fire credentials (or EMS for that matter). This Chief is known to routinely take command of fire and accident scenes both in and out of his first due area. I have a problem with that. The County web page documents other Fire Chiefs and company officers in this county with the same frustration but apparently the county cares to do nothing about it. The profession we are in is far too dangerous to put a person in charge without the requisite training and certifications. I would never allow my men or women to take direction from a scene commander who does not hold the credentials to command. Am I being one-sided? How do you feel?

The Stafford County web page is: http://co.stafford.va.us/ems/

Donna,
Captain, AFD:eek:

[regs1]

Donna:

The question I have is “what qualifications do you need” I know this is a stupid question, but this is a volunteer chief we are talking about, correct? He was elected to this office, I hate to ask why?

In reading some posts on this issue, the county has some requirements to be a chief, but this person does not meet them;

why was he even permitted to run for this office?

There seems to be more to this issue than a unqualified officer.

To have the county step in and remove him, maybe a good idea, but the volunteers will band together and cry about the interference in running their departments

[Joeyknuckles]

Just because he has no training doesn't mean he's a complete window licker. Although time and experience will help an individual, training is a plus in any job you have.........

[towaladda124]

I agree, some people just have natural talent. But I also think that you should have the training to back it. The only question I have is where are all the other Chief officers when this guy is taking command? Ecspecially in someone else's area.

[EL TORO]

Donna:


One word:

MOVE.

[aardvark]

I'm sure that he's elected thru a volly dept, right ???

El Toro, great answer....Donna should move to a PAID department area.


At least have her buy 200 smoke detectors so she ( and her family ) can get out..................

[Blueknot]

While I don't agree with officers having little or no credentials, I remember something my volly company did one time a few years back. I was at work at the time and missed the election but...
In order to spite the so called establishment (whom the members were tired of) they voted in a chief from the rank and file who had no specific training for the job. Oh my GOD!!!
The guy turned out to be one of the most capable chiefs the department ever had...he held office for 5 consecutive years and only gave it up due to moving away. Sometimes all is not what it seems.

[porkchop33]

Being a member of a volunteer fire dept. since I was 16, I'm now 21 and employed with The Baltimore City Fire Service, yeah I know I have loads of time under my belt, we have always required Chief level officers and or EMS Capt to have a certian amount af traning and years as officer prior to being elected or opointed to office. While I aggree that class room instruction is not every thing, and a certian amount of field time should be a much needed requirment, I've found that a good mix of both give you your best results.

[Lt BPB]

Well Put, Chop!

[regs1]

To bad porkchop33 idea is not really the reality in many cases in both paid and volunteer departments.

[porkchop33]

Yeah, too bad one thing doesn’t work for all our problems, officers, the brass, bean counters trying to run the fire dept, and people getting suspended for voicing their opinion about public safety. Oh and incase anyone is looking from the BCFD, I'm off duty.

[regs1]

has BCFD tried to prevent acess to the twd site yet, they are trying to do that in the city 30 miles south of you.

[Joeyknuckles]

All this controversy over TWD.
I think it's funny people have there under shorts all up there ass over this place.........
This isn't because the GAY folks is it?:confused:

[porkchop33]

To my knowledge, no. However we have been encouraged to not post anything on TWD while we are on duty. Lt. BPB might be able to answer your question better since I'm just a bottom feeder.

[Joe Fireman]

thewatchdesk has a bad reputation
in the county im from in PA
its hard to get rid of a bad rep once
something has one

[esfmmk]

One of the major problems with the volunteer service is the election process. I am a proud member of my vol dept. We run 1100+ calls per year. So we are fairly busy as they go up here. We have a min. training requirment for all line officers and chiefs. As well as time served requirment. I don't feel we are strict enough. However I understand in a vol dept their is only so much time for training. Most vol elections turn out to be nothing but populairty contests. Who bought the most pops the night before.... Which means "usually" if you do your job as a good officer, keep your troops in line, push training, keep rigs clean and expect proffesionalism all the time you have a tough time getting re-elected or a promotion, usally a demotion comes.

I think some people are in too much of a hurry to "get to the top spot".

This is my opion only...

[fireelfemtp]

Well if most volunteer departments vote like the ones near me, it has nothing to do w/qualifications, experience, know how, ect. It is all in who's buddy you are or who's butt you kiss.

[CT606LT]

Although our line officers are elected, we maintain a minimum eligibility standard for line officers in our department, despite the attempts of those who want ot make it a popularity contest. Lieutenants have to be Fire Officer 1/EMT & 3 years: Captains and above add Fire Instructor 1 or EMS instructor & 5 years I believe. There have been years where some positions went vacant due to lack of qualified personnel, but those vacant positions meant that we would not just give out the white hat and let anybody ride the seat.

[Resq19]

The problem as already stated and I'll agree........Officers in Volunteer Companies are elected mostly in part because of who's buddy-buddy with who - who campaigned harder, and various other Horse-Shit ways to get in office. - Training, knowledge, and expirence raley has anything to with becoming an officer in the Volunteer System.

Now in the Career System we have to take written and sometimes physical examinations to even be considered for a promotion to an officer spot.

Now before I ruffle any feathers I'm not starting a Career/Volunteer Pissing Contest {I hate that Bullshit } - But how is it that paid personnel have to test for an Officer Spot and must have skills, training, and knowledge and in most {I'm not saying all} Volunteer Companies all we have to do is make sure we buy the right person a few beers in the TV Room after a meeting ????

I don't get it.

[EMT/FF99]

Coming from both a Paid Dept (at one point) & a Volly Dept, I had to incur 2 Chiefs niether of which had any type of Training (Officer nor Fire). However, the Chief from the Paid Dept "knew" his shit, simply because he took the time over the years & learn from each call as he moved up thru the ranks.
As for the Volly Chief,,well trust me,,after running there 2 years,,it was a pain in the ass everytime this "Chief" would show up on scene. Chiefs from other Depts would try to take command & this Chief would totally screw a simple Natural Gas Call up!!!!! No training in anyway shape nor form, refused outright to listen to his Jr Officers & the Members. He was voted in by the Life Members whom never show up for fundraisers, calls & so forth (Yes I know they put their time in & I respect that fact) but when Elections came around then,,the Life Timers would show up & vote this moron in!!! (Why, because he would take them out for Dinner (Damon's, Hoss's & where ever else) prior to the elections.

If the person does not have the training by the street smarts, he can do just as good if not better, but on the other side of the coin, either can get someone killed or hurt real quick from stupid decision making in a heart beat.

[BigGreasy]

Actually i havent seen anything in the city saying anything about twd but, their have been a few times where things were said on local forums and brass read it and tried to punish. So much for freedom of speech we dont have it here.

[BCFD in Philly]

Actually i havent seen anything in the city saying anything about twd but, their have been a few times where things were said on local forums and brass read it and tried to punish. So much for freedom of speech we dont have it here.

I believe you are mistaken. Freedom of speech was exercised by posting in a public forum. There is no such thing as "freedom from consequences of your actions".

[hog]

I believe you are mistaken. Freedom of speech was exercised by posting in a public forum. There is no such thing as "freedom from consequences of your actions".
i am not sure what was said or done but.......Freedom of speech is just that,,,,,,if consequences happened then we all might as well live in a communist country.....we can say whatever we want even if it pisses the "high brass" off

[BCFD in Philly]

i am not sure what was said or done but.......Freedom of speech is just that,,,,,,if consequences happened then we all might as well live in a communist country.....we can say whatever we want even if it pisses the "high brass" off


we can say whatever we want even if it pisses the "high brass" off is the essence of free speech. Along with the freedom of speech comes bearing responsibility for what is said, ergo the the consequences.

If someone considers what is said on TWD to be injurious, slanderous, libelous etc. he or she may seek redress in the courts - aka the consequences.

If the "free speech" involves the work place then the employer is entitled to enforce what ever rules were agreed upon as part of the terms of employment - ergo the consequences.

This is a public forum open to all. However the owners of TWD have the right and exercise it to not allow what they consider inappropriate postings - the consequences aka deleting posts.

In a communist country the existence of the avenues to exercise free speech, i.e. a free press and forums like this are what is suppressed. In those countries, for those who insist of exercising free speech the consequences are far more severe - lenghty imprisonment, banishment and/or death.

Everything said has consequences. Learn to gauge the severity of the consequence before equating known, reasonable consequences with draconian ones.

[hog]

we can say whatever we want even if it pisses the "high brass" off is the essence of free speech. Along with the freedom of speech comes bearing responsibility for what is said, ergo the the consequences.

If someone considers what is said on TWD to be injurious, slanderous, libelous etc. he or she may seek redress in the courts - aka the consequences.

If the "free speech" involves the work place then the employer is entitled to enforce what ever rules were agreed upon as part of the terms of employment - ergo the consequences.

This is a public forum open to all. However the owners of TWD have the right and exercise it to not allow what they consider inappropriate postings - the consequences aka deleting posts.

In a communist country the existence of the avenues to exercise free speech, i.e. a free press and forums like this are what is suppressed. In those countries, for those who insist of exercising free speech the consequences are far more severe - lenghty imprisonment, banishment and/or death.

Everything said has consequences. Learn to gauge the severity of the consequence before equating known, reasonable consequences with draconian ones.
like i said i don`t know what happened

[BigGreasy]

I cant remeber exact words but basically just disagreement with brass and saying so. but then again now with all the bs we have going on in the departmant the M.O.U. s are ignored and anything management wants they do.