Who's for who? Bush or Kerry

[DFM]

After reading the two threads in the General Discussion section thought it would be interesting to start a poll to see who supports who. Personally I support President Bush, even though I am IAFF member. I have my own reasons for this and they go beyond union issues.

[xploded]

I am for sure a Bush man. We have a man who is willing to stand up to these terrorist and make them pay the price for their actions. While the other guy wants to plead for restraint and permission from the dupes at the UN. Who cares what France, Germany or the rest of them think of us for kicking ass. If they were threatned the first phone call would be to Pres. Bush for help. It is great to have a man to be proud of in the White Houise. Mr. Kerry seems to try and say whatever he thinks his audience at the time wants to hear. There is no way to have solid bedrock principles when your only trying to please everybody. Take a stand for something and let the voters decide. My opinion.

[Chief 24]

BUSH ALL THE WAY

[Rumorville]

I'd rather have a president who is not afraid to step up to the plate, no matter what the deal is (our business or world business, it all affects us) ; not one who tells you one thing just to please some voters.....Bush all the way.....

[ENGINEDUDELT]

Just what we need here, a thread to argue politics. BUSH all the way. Typically Democrats are concerned with US and Reps foriegn policy, but right now, today, we need to be concerned with foreign policy to kill those bastards, terrorists that is.

[Joeyknuckles]

I'll go with BUSH, just because his name is BUSH.
I really don't like a hole lotta BUSH, as long as it's trimmed up a little, But then again I love a little BUSH............:p

[Engineer]

Bush is a Jack Ass!

“The fact is Bush’s actions have resulted in fire stations closing in communities around the country. Two-thirds of America’s fire departments remain under-staffed because Bush is failing to enforce a new law that was passed with bipartisan support in Congress that would put more fire fighters in our communities. President Bush’s budget proposes to cut Homeland Security Department funding for first responders by $700 million for next year and cuts funding for the FIRE Act, a grant program that helps fire departments fund equipment needs, 33% by $250 million. In addition, state and local programs for homeland security purposes were reduced $200 million.

From
IAFF Press Release
For full story: http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=41&id=27048

[xploded]

So we should vote for Kerry so he can raise our taxes, then you think there are too many cuts in Homeland Security now. Wait till Kerry guts it to fund his social give aways to buy votes. He doesn't, along with the other liberal politicians, believe that we should take care of ourselves in National Security but get permission from the UN. Look how bad defense was cut under Clinton. I am afraid we would be in for the same or worse. Electing a man with no backbone would send a pretty sad message to the terrorist that we will just cut and run. My opinion

[towaladda124]

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion but come on. Since when could you believe a politician?? Kerry says that he is going to do so much for the fire service, but me personally, I have a hard time believing a man that says something different every time he makes a public appearance. Yeah President Bush may not be the friendliest Pres that've had towards the fire service in regaurds to money, but take a look at the BIG picture. He is standing up and defending the entire nation by hunting down those bastards responsible for terrorizing the nation and killing 343 of our brothers!!!! So me, I'd rather have someone in the white house that I can be proud of and feel safe with because I know he's gonna protect our country, rather than a pussy that would sit on his ass, raise taxes, and maybe.....just maybe pad our pockets alittle.

[HAZWOPER]

I totally agree, we need a president that will continue to stand up to terrorists, not rollover for them. I don't think Kerry would have the balls to start a war, no matter what happened. GO Bush

[BIOHAZARD]

As a lifelong republican, I dont trust anyone anymore! Where's Ross Perot when you need him?:eek:

[DFM]

Hey Engineer don't believe everything the IAFF spoonfeeds you. Keep the faith Biohazard. Remember all Perot did was take votes away from the republicans. This year Kerry will be in all sorts of trouble if Nader stays around.

[Forcing Entry]

No matter what I will NEVER vote for a man who burned an american flag when he returned from Vietnam.

He touts his silver star, funny how he never burned that!

Keep up the fight President Bush!!

[Vollies Suck]

There are other choices besides Bush and Kerry, you know.

Although I voted for Bush last time around, for a lot of reasons, this year I will probably vote for Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Party candidate.

Kerry is out of the question...so phony it isn't even funny.

[Vollies Suck]

[QUOTE=Forcing Entry]No matter what I will NEVER vote for a man who burned an american flag when he returned from Vietnam.[QUOTE]

I cannot stand Kerry, but I like unsubstantiated rumors even less. Please document your claim that Kerry burned an American flag. I have never heard that about him and doubt that it is true.

[burning85]

who is Michael Badnarik? and where can i find some info to see what he is about? i absolutely don't want to vote for Kerry...although my vote was for Bush last time around i'm not sure i want to go his direction again this time.

[ENGINEDUDELT]

Didn't Bill Clinton And His Democratic Stay In The White House Prove That The Democrats Don't Have A Clue. He Allowed 911 To Happen By Not Re-acting To The Terror Threat When It Appeared Long Ago. *but Now, Everyone Wants To Bash President Bush For Taking The Fight Head On To The Terrorists. John Kerry Is Just Like Bill Clinton, Clueless!!! Remember This Threat Is Tree-hugging Liberals Vote Kerry Into The White House. Union Or No Union Support, Bush Will Prevail With The Biggest Threat That This Country Has Ever Faced.

**even Though You Guys Make Me Mad, Be Safe My Brothers!!! :d

[Albert'sFriend]

I voted George Bush. He has made some errors and poor decisions...but haven't we all? I cannot in good conscience vote for John Kerry, who has so many beliefs that are in direct conflict with my own.
Democrats are notoriously more for the "blue collar guys", including unions. But, as someone already pointed out, what good is a union if your entire country has been blown to smithereens?
I don't feel like any great strides were made under Clinton for the average Joe Blow. In fact, I have seen more money and better tax breaks under George Bush, and I am not wealthy.
I am sure there are better candidates than either that is running at the moment. But, in good conscience, I can only vote republican. I'm just a right wing kinda girl. :D

[All4one]

If you were a piece of !!!! terrorist, who would you vote for in the 2004 election? Enough Said.

They did it in Spain and they are trying to do it here. Only though the efforts of the current administration have they only been able to exploit targets on foreign soil.

FBI deffinition of Terrorism:The unlawful use of force or violence committed by a group or individual against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian popluation or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

They did it in Spain... dont let them do it here.

[Vollies Suck]

who is Michael Badnarik? and where can i find some info to see what he is about? i absolutely don't want to vote for Kerry...although my vote was for Bush last time around i'm not sure i want to go his direction again this time.

You can find out more about Badnarik and the Libertarian Party at www.lp.org

[burning85]

Thank you.

[allpro]

Bush isn't as tough as he appears to be. He is the same guy who's daddy protected him by using his connections with the National Guard and got him a spot as a pilot. I think most politicians are full of crap. They tell you what you want to hear just before the election, then you don't hear from them for another 4 years. Bush is a weak man with strong people around him.

Over the past year a couple of his staff members have resigned. Rice is refusing to stand before congress publicly. Colin Powell has admitted that the evidence used to justify the attack on Iraq last year is flawed. I think Bush used what happened on 9/11/01; and preyed on the emotions of the country to do as he pleases.

[Vollies Suck]

Bush isn't as tough as he appears to be. He is the same guy who's daddy protected him by using his connections with the National Guard and got him a spot as a pilot. I think most politicians are full of crap. They tell you what you want to hear just before the election, then you don't hear from them for another 4 years. Bush is a weak man with strong people around him.

Over the past year a couple of his staff members have resigned. Rice is refusing to stand before congress publicly. Colin Powell has admitted that the evidence used to justify the attack on Iraq last year is flawed. I think Bush used what happened on 9/11/01; and preyed on the emotions of the country to do as he pleases.

I'm not especially a fan of Bush's either, but fair is fair, and some of your allegations should be addressed or clarified. First, I do not know if it was his father's connections that got him into the Guard; what is your source for that claim?

Second, just FYI, nobody, no matter how well-connected, gets to fly military airplanes unless he is well-qualified and has his !!!! together.

Third, if Bush can be criticized for anything, I think he is a bit too strong...that's why so many Europeans dislike him.

Fourth, the only major Bush staffers I am aware of resigning have been spokesman Ari Fleischer and adviser Karen Hughes. Both wanted to return to private life after experiencing the pressure cooker of public life...how can you fault them for that, or hold it against Bush?

Fifth, Condoleeza Rice is due to testify before the 911 Commission this week.

[ILUVPOLITICS]

For those of you who like to quote IAFF press releases check out the following link:

www.NewsAndOpinion.com

Look for the article by Linda Chavez, "Devious unions are using new ads as an excuse to Bush-whack".

[allpro]

I'm not especially a fan of Bush's either, but fair is fair, and some of your allegations should be addressed or clarified. First, I do not know if it was his father's connections that got him into the Guard; what is your source for that claim?

There was a investigative report done when bush was running for office. I think 20/20 or 60 minutes. Daddy bush had some connection with the commander of the Texas Air National Guard. With that he kept his boy home while other less fortunate young men to a long trip to hell.

Second, just FYI, nobody, no matter how well-connected, gets to fly military airplanes unless he is well-qualified and has his !!!! together.

It was also reported that they quickly made junior a captain, because only officers can become piolets.

Third, if Bush can be criticized for anything, I think he is a bit too strong...that's why so many Europeans dislike him.

Don't confuse strength with arrogance. He is a guy who caught the wave of oppurtunity. Clinton was done (2 terms), and the voters were in need of something different (republican or demorcrat)

Fourth, the only major Bush staffers I am aware of resigning have been spokesman Ari Fleischer and adviser Karen Hughes. Both wanted to return to private life after experiencing the pressure cooker of public life...how can you fault them for that, or hold it against Bush?

I don't remember if there was anyone else, but they jumped ship at a strange time. The stories will be interesting after this term.

Fifth, Condoleeza Rice is due to testify before the 911 Commission this week.

She refused to speak in public initially. It wasn't until there was pressure and the apperance of hidding somethng that she decided to cooperate. Maybe she forgot her appointment was by a public official.

[BCFDTRUCKMAN]

This union man is voting for Bush. Who wouldn't want to vote for a god loving, gun toting, family orienteted oil man? I don't trust those Democraps at all. As far as the IAFF backing John "F"-ing Kerry, when did they poll the membership for that? I don't remember telling them I wanted them to back Kerry. Do you? Who in the IAFF made that decission? The city I serve is dominated by democraps and they are not friendly to my union at all. Them dems are closing companies, cutting man power, and demoralizing the dept all in an effort to funnel money to the police department.

[CAPTFBFD]

Wow.. I never thought that I would say this but I agree with Vollies Suck.

No matter what Bush did in the Guard he did serve. As a Current Military Pilot I fully support him. You don't just get your wings because you know someone. I am currently a flight instructor and we have had a few students show up who have some pretty important and powerfull parents and not all of them have made it throught the flight program.

As for Kerry, No matter what he did while he was in the service he washed that all away when he came back from Vietnam. I am pretty sure that anyone who has spent any time in the service will pretty much feel the same way.

By the way.... Don't forget that our last. Pres sure as hell didn't serve his country!

[Vollies Suck]

Allpro, careful readers will note that you did not answer my critique of your previous post. Telling us that you saw some investigative report that you "think" was on 60 Minutes or 20/20 hardly qualifies as proving your point.

I am also confused by this idea that serving in the National Guard is somehow not an honorable thing to do. Bush served his country, but for you that didn't go far enough, because he wasn't in Vietnam? Only a true Bush-hater or partisan Democrat would make such a claim. By the way, since you are so obsessed with those "less fortunate young men" who made a "long trip to hell", what do you think of Kerry's association with Jane Fonda? Care to address that? Specifically, what do you think Kerry and Fonda did to the morale of our young men in Vietnam?

Most presidents who get the job are beneficiaries of luck, of being in the right place at the right time. (That's how Clinton got elected, and re-elected for that matter.) As with the other elements of your reply, that proves nothing bad about Bush.

Fleischer and Hughes "jumped ship at a strange time"? When would you have preferred they resign? Why use the term "jump ship"? Are they not entitled to resume their private lives? And you didn't explain how that reflects negatively on Bush.

At the time of your initial post, Rice had agreed to testify...why can't you admit that you were simply wrong when you wrote that she "is refusing to testify"? And you are wrong in your latest post too: She did not refuse to speak in public, in fact she spoke in public a lot about this, and was interviewed last week on 60 Minutes. And she testified under oath in a private session of the 911 Commission. She did initially refuse to testify before a public session of the 911 Commission, citing the precedent that would be set -- no National Security Adviser has ever done such a thing before -- but that hardly forms a basis for your idiotic claim that she acted like she had something to hide.

Give up, Allpro. You are simply either a partisan Democrat, or you are following the IAFF line on this, but your arguments are silly, and you are unable to make your points.

[FireYeti]

I am sick and tired of people complaining about how horrible life is here. Senator Kerry is the biggest one of them all. It is obvious that democrats "want" to fatten our pockets, and improve our benefits, etc. . and that is it. Our current president is trying his hardest with balancing our lives and maintaining world peace. We are not just our own little country anymore. We are a model for the world, and it is selfish of us to keep to ourselves and "stay out of each other's business". I have a roof over my head, a healthy family, a secure job, food on the table, what more could I ask for? Ohh, if we could return to the mid 1800's when firemen like ourselves were called off to defend our beliefs. Irish firemen especially at that. A people whom although not near in numbers and attrocities to the African slaves, still suffered racism and persecution and would soon take up the reigns of the deadliest jobs and lead the country. I pray that every soldier stays safe, and that they realize that if not for personal reasons, that they are fighting to bring freedom to one more nation. Let's not vote in an incumbent that desires to make us "richer", yet sat aside Jane Fonda soon after his return from Vietnam. Just the thought of that makes me barf. Backin' bush for 04'!!

[Exposure]

I'll go with Kerry, I beat he can spell and speak without stuttering.

[DA SHOCKER]

I'll go with Kerry, I beat he can spell and speak without stuttering.


HE MIGHT BUT IT DOESNT LOOK LIKE YOU CAN :)

[NTERIOR]

Although I voted for Bush in the last election, he has lost my vote this time around. I am satisfied with the response Bush made to the Taliban and Al Quieda after 9/11, but that's about it. I believe he has a poor policy to economics, and has been an outright enemy to the fire service. He stood at ground zero and made all kinds of promises to the fire service and has since tried to kill or gut every piece of legislation to help us do our jobs. You can start all the wars you want, but you must still help and prepare the fire service to respond to events that can (and I believe will) happen on US soil again. And I think it is disgusting that Bush tried to use 9/11 to help justify the war in Iraq. My vote this year will be for Kerry, he's not perfect, but he's the lesser of two evils. This will be only the second time that I haven't voted republican.

[Nightmare]

Exposure, I "beat" your the official Kerry speech writer.

[allpro]

VS;

First the report I saw was about 4 years ago.

Next, there is nothing wrong with serving in the guard. It's obvious that the guard was a good place to hide instead of getting drafted. I don't hate Bush, and I'm not a democrat. "Obsessed"? I don't care about Kerry's association with Jane Fonda. I think it was horrible for ANYONE to treat the veterans like crap. At the same time this is America, and we do have a right to free speech. The constitution doesn't say anyone has to like what you say. Vietnam was a very unpopular war. It's hard to justify so many lives and so much money, and for what? The fear of the spread of communism. As you can see; nothing has changed in that part of the world. Here we are 30 years later doing it all over again. I support every person in the armed forces. I have a brother who has been in the Army for 17 years. That doesn't mean I have to agree with the politics behind it.

Clinton served two terms. Now how did this happen if he digusted so many people? After his first term why didn't all this Republicans who couldn't stand him (draft dodger, emorale, etc) come out and vote for someone else? Maybe those same republicans agreed with his policies and secretly voted for him.

He appointed them, don't they owe him some loyalty?

She did refuse to testify, you just admitted it yourself. A 60 minutes interveiw is a little different than being questioned before a Senate panel. You know what; precedents are set all the time. The truth is there was pressure from the familys from the victims of September 11.

We will see how silly this is in a few months.

[15/16 tip]

Bush 2004 !!!

If you want to focus blame for Iraq lets start and end with Saddam. He ignored 12 resolutions. He was warned. He ignored the warning. Kerry has no solutions. He simply criticizes the Presidents pollicies. That's fine to oppose President Bush policy's however he offers no alternate plans.

In regards to the fire service issues - How is this a national issue ? Fire service issue need to be solved at the local level. Many local leaders cannot step up the plate and do the right thing. There are several Democrats running major cities and Counties. If they truly cared about the fire service they would solve the problem. Not the President.

Democrats feel Government solves all problems. More Government more problems !!

[Truck123]

My vote will go with GWB. People are worried about the economy, but are also against the war. Hmmmm, planes strike the WTC, the Pentagon, crash one in Shanksville, PA... and we are to let this go? Osama will eventually go down, and Saddam already has. Once Osama is captured, and hopefully killed, the terrorist organizations will slowly be taken out. It will be a long drawn out war, much of what was not expected, but well worth it. Everyone saw what 9/11 did to our country economically. France and every other nation that did not back us up can kiss my ass. When the !!!! gets started in their countries, who's doorbell will be rang first??? Yep..the White House.

I pray that nothing goes down in N Korea in the next few years...however...if it does, I feel that China will back us up on this one...and hopefully...it will be resolved before any major combat.

Bush has my vote. Even if you do not support our president, support our troops!

PS. If you want to know what Clinton screwed up...look at Somalia!

I am a democrat..who will vote republican...again this coming election.

[gerry_58]

.....Clinton served two terms. Now how did this happen if he digusted so many people? ..... .


Easy!-- Perot splitting the Conservative vote on the first go-around, and the Republicians sending up an unelectable canidadate the 2nd time, just because it was "his turn"....

[gerry_58]

...In regards to the fire service issues - How is this a national issue ? Fire service issue need to be solved at the local level. Many local leaders cannot step up the plate and do the right thing. There are several Democrats running major cities and Counties. If they truly cared about the fire service they would solve the problem. ....

Agreed. Look what a Democratic mayor is doing to the fire service in Baltimore-- how is that Bush's fault?

[ILUVPOLITICS]

If you want to know why so many people of other nations hate us consider this:
Of those who fall below the American "poverty" line:
1) Greater than 75% own at least one vehicle, many own two
2) More than 40% own their own homes
3) More that 80% have internet, cable and other entertainment in their homes
4) The majority, despite what the democrats want you to think, are employed.

After all of this, when our poor are living the upper middle class of foreign countries, we still have the nerve to complain.

Being born in a certain country doesn't entitle you to be rich. Even hard work and dangerous jobs don't gaurantee you'll ever be rich. The way you live your life determines if you'll be wealthy, which means when you die, you'll leave behind someone who remembers you foundly for your good deeds, not how big the checks were that you wrote!

As for the IAFF not consulting its membership before endorsing Kerry, I can't believe anyone is surprised. Unions historically endorse the Democratic candidates because they fight for getting paid more for doing less!

[paramedic 35]

Coming from a strong Democratic family (I had an aunt who was the county president of the central committee) I was told that I had to register the same way. Being the young, brash, rebel that I was in my youth, I naturally decided to register REPUBLICAN. While my reason for doing so was not sound, I have never regretted my choice.
I would hate to see where we would be right now if the Florida election would have went the other way. Despite the fiasco that it presented, I think the country came out ahead with Bush. While I will admit that he is not the most articulate politician I have ever seen, and he will probably never be able to pronounce Nuclear, He has proven that he will not take any !!!! from other countries. He reminds me, a little, of Reagan. Some of you might remember when he sent the bombers over to Libya and dropped a present in Khadafi' sliving room. It was just a shame that he was not home at the time.
I don't think Mr. Kerry has a set of balls that big, and even if he did, he would not know how to get them back together after they have been dangling over both sides of the fence for so long.

The bottom line...... BUSH in 2004!!!!!!!!!!

[Loo for life]

Nterior,

Let me see how much money did the US government give to the firemen of this country PRE-Bush... nada none zip so that arguement sinks like heavy turd!
Look I am a proud Union Member, but some of you, my fellow Union Brothers/Sisters and Schaitburger have got to stop whining and crying about how President Bush doesn't love us and he stood on the site and said all of that stuff yada yada yada...:

a) He stood there trying to boost our spirits, which is what a President is
supposed to do!

b) He has spent just quite a few dollars on us, more than anyother President

c) He gave this Country pride again, something I will promise you
Kerry will not he has said He will wait for UN Approval to act...
MY ASS that is the same cowardly bullshit Clinton did...

Economic Policy, Economic policies are not immeadiate the So -call Clinton Boon was as a result of the President Reagan years economic policy.... It was delayed by the read my lips and Clinton first years tax increase.
This recession we were in is because of the same Daddy Bush and Clinton economic policies and the raising of TAXES... The current up swing of economic news is due to President Bush Tax cuts and putting more of OUR money back in our pocket which has staved off an even larger recession! ECONOMICS 101

Last but not least let's stop calling this the Bush War the only thing this President has done is what should have been done to begin with let me take you back to Clinton years both he, CONGRESS and the UN stated that the Iraqis had WMD this went on for 8 years even when they kept inspectors at arms length they flaunted the so called toothless resolutions and threats that the UN and Bubba kept touting. All Bush did was put the teeth back in the USA, unlike Ford, Carter and Clinton who pandered to these simply put evil fucks over the years. regardless of the real name of each one or their country of origin.

Believe what you want, say what you want but as for (Kerry Labor Secretary)Schaitburger Paaaaleeeese he is in it for himself and to a degree what he believes is good for the "Career Firefighters" of this country but this is one dues paying IAFF Fireman who will proudly cast his vote for the current occupant of 1600 Penn. AVE, PRESIDENT G.W.BUSH and not that long face lying, can't decide which side of the fence I am on LIBERAL from Taxachussets...

Have a nice day ;)
John P

[FireYeti]

Thanks to Loo for Life, who made sure the first lady wanna be's maiden name was included. Lately, it was brought to my attention that Mrs. Kerry was speaking at an event, and she finally exclamated something to the point that there were too many Wal-Marts' going up, and they were ruining our communities! However, the writer noted how Wal-Mart, although on the brink of merging into neighborhoods and disturbing them, has not yet done so. It has simply created more jobs, and provides competitive prices which lures shoppers, and because of the prices, puts more money into their pockets. Aren't all these benefits those that her husband touts as selling points to his presidency? The killer was, that supposedly she owns approximately $1 million in stock of the company :rolleyes: Go figure!
Perhaps President Bush has a spending issue in the eyes of many, however he has bolstered the greatest morale over any president within the past few years. He has raised our soldiers pay right from the get go, which was a HUGE morale booster. He encourages us to be proud of where we are from, and will be very blunt in admitting that these are hard and trying times. If Kerry were to envision these events occuring during his administration, he would simply shove it in the closet and pass daisies out to everybody. As far as the Jane Fonda statement I made earlier, someone else mentioned that it didn't bother him/her. Well, I can say that I was not around during that era, but any person that is going to seem comfortable with a woman who posed with charlie and our freedom fighting soldiers all pinned up. . .isn't even worthy of his seat in senate! I'm all for love and peace when it's possible, but I aint gonna kiss ass with a woman just because she shares my views and looks hot. What she did is flat out wrong.
There's that saying that many Vietnam Veterans tout, "We'll forgive Jane Fonda, when the Jews forgive hitler."

[Forge]

I'll go with Kerry, I beat he can spell and speak without stuttering."I'll Beat"

[Captain Slacker]

As a lifelong republican, I dont trust anyone anymore! Where's Ross Perot when you need him?:eek:

I agree, bring back Perot. Can he do any worse?
Kerry may not be the right choice, but is Bush? How long can he ride on daddy's coat tails???

[ChainSaw69]

The people that hate Bush for various reasons will hate Kerry in 3 - 4 years for similar reasons should he get elected. You cant make everyone happy. Im with Bush

[Bartender]

The people that hate Bush for various reasons will hate Kerry in 3 - 4 years for similar reasons should he get elected. You cant make everyone happy. Im with Bush
I'll bet that, since he is the most LIBERAL senator in congress, it doesn't take 3-4 years for him to show his true colors. But, that isn't going to matter, look at all the wonderful things that having a one party City has gotten for us and still, we continue to shell out money to insure that, that evil right wing doesn't get elected and treat us poorly!
But I may be bias.

[KMA]

Bush is the man for the job. In regards to the FIRE act..if I told you I'd give you $100 and then said, ya know what, all i have is $80. Am I a jerk?

Why does the Federal Govt have to ante up to local jurisdictions that have failed to allocate adequate resources (MONEY) for public safety? I agree that more money should be spent but I have serious problems with Federal bailouts.

[Micksman]

There is really no choice, BUSH is the ONLY sane choice. We are at war and maybe one day the rest of the world will realize it. The UN is useless and the people we are fighting are religous fanatics.I think Kerry's run for President is a smokescreen for "Hillery" to jump in at the last minute...just a nagging thought.

[Firescrapper96]

If Bush wasn't in office now, I think that we as public safety would be dealing with emergencies like they are in Spain, Israel, and so many other countries. We can't let Kerry win this election!

[Fireshark]

[QUOTE=Forcing Entry]No matter what I will NEVER vote for a man who burned an american flag when he returned from Vietnam.[QUOTE]

I cannot stand Kerry, but I like unsubstantiated rumors even less. Please document your claim that Kerry burned an American flag. I have never heard that about him and doubt that it is true.


This appeared on page 1.... the only thing that I could find that he must have been referring to was John Kerry's opposition to a bill that banned protesting by flag burning in the United States, hence desecrating the American flag.
Further, I was able to find a quote by Kerry...

"Kerry, through a spokeswoman, said he believes the flag amendment violates free speech principles.
"If I saw someone burning the flag, I'd punch them in the mouth because I love that flag," Kerry said. "But the Constitutiton I fought for preserves the right of free expression."


It seems to me that Kerry is simply being careful about what he says here, so as to be able gain the highest amount of support. Just like a typical politician. If you were to ask me, I'd say that not supporting this Constitutional Ammendment in question is just like the act of burning a flag. In a position which Kerry serves (U.S. Senator), it is his responsibility to have pride in his nation and in his flag. Of course, this country is not perfect, but damned if I'd live anywhere else besides right here in the land of the red, white, and blue.

[Chuga]

Plain and simple "Kerry is scary"

[ENGINEDUDELT]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Come on and get some damn common sense. BUSH supports "1 nation under god!", hates, hunt and kills terrorists and hunts and likes to fish, he is the man. Kerry will be just like Clinton, DA HUH!!

[shenanigans]

Nader All The Way!!!!!!!!!!!! :d

[OCFFChris]

Bush is a Jack Ass!

“The fact is Bush’s actions have resulted in fire stations closing in communities around the country. Two-thirds of America’s fire departments remain under-staffed because Bush is failing to enforce a new law that was passed with bipartisan support in Congress that would put more fire fighters in our communities. President Bush’s budget proposes to cut Homeland Security Department funding for first responders by $700 million for next year and cuts funding for the FIRE Act, a grant program that helps fire departments fund equipment needs, 33% by $250 million. In addition, state and local programs for homeland security purposes were reduced $200 million.

From
IAFF Press Release
For full story: http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=41&id=27048

Atleast Bush will make a decision though.

Vote Bush - 2004

[Mad Co Citizen]

The IAFF (former member, here) position is a classic case of a president using an organization to get a position in the Kerry administration. Kerry can't keep his opinions straight. He ia a classic politician. Here is a scary statement: I would vote for Ted Kennedy before I would vote for Kerry (only if they were the only two on the ballot, of course.)

Vollie Suck - YOU SUCK. You get what you pay for is a great statement, but you cannot make a blanket statement like that. I will guarantee that there is at least 1 volunteer firefighter out there that is better at the job than you.

[DiablO]

I will Vote For Bush Again

[sinu8]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Come on and get some damn common sense. BUSH supports "1 nation under god!", hates, hunt and kills terrorists and hunts and likes to fish, he is the man. Kerry will be just like Clinton, DA HUH!!
Kerry wishes he could be just like Slick Willey! Sad to say but he makes Blow-job Bill look like an ultra conservative!

[Truck123]

Bush all the way.

Whether you like him or hate him, support our troops.

Gob Bless the men and women who are fighting day in and day out to protect our country from the evil across the oceans.

[Vollies Suck]

Vollie Suck - YOU SUCK. You get what you pay for is a great statement, but you cannot make a blanket statement like that. I will guarantee that there is at least 1 volunteer firefighter out there that is better at the job than you.

I love it, another vollie bugwit who hasn't read any of my posts but is going to insult me -- without knowing anything about me -- only because of my name.

Let's see now: First, I can make any statement I want, blanket or not. Do you understand the definition of the word "opinion"? And also by definition, your second statement is wrong: No volly can be better at "the job" than I am since vollies don't do "the job", they practice a hobby. Get it?

[PrideOfPigTown]

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit (Michigan) there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's one American city, folks--- about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq!

[explorer305]

No matter what I will NEVER vote for a man who burned an american flag when he returned from Vietnam.
I would have to agree with you. I don't like Bush, but I Kerry lost all my respect when I found out he burned a flag.

[Vollies Suck]

I would have to agree with you. I don't like Bush, but I Kerry lost all my respect when I found out he burned a flag.

I don't like Kerry even a little bit, but fair is fair. Yes, he protested the Vietnam War and tried to make a name for himself as a member of VVAW, but how do you know for sure that he burned a flag? Is this something you saw on some old news coverage somewhere, or something he admitted to, or is this just something you "heard" from somebody who "heard" it from somebody who "heard" it from somebody...in other words, are you just spreading a rumor or can you cite the source for what you posted on here?

[ericp278]

Everybody says about Kerry protesting the war and burning Flags, and associating with Hanoi Jane, and throwing his medals at the Capitol Building. Geuss what HE did all that. But Hear this at least he went to war and served his country in the military.I think he deserved the right to protest a war that he did his civil duty in. He did his duty(he stated he didnt like what he did but he did it cause he has a civil duty just like any other American to Serve his Country)and returned home with an opinion against the war. At least he didnt run to Canada or dodge the draft and sit around and smoke dope and try to crusade Peace and Love. trust me i dont like anyone burning the flag out of hatred towards the Goverment but at least he earned the right to protest and show he disagreed with the War. I am no where near a Kerry lobbyist or a Bush Lobbyist. All Politicians are Crooks and would lie to get into Office.

[Loo for life]

Look I agree to a certain extent that all politicians are fabricators, but I will take President G.W. over that flip flooping, whinny, french speaking, michael moore movie watching, liberal, tax increasing, Kennedy(Mary Jo Killing) loving piece of garbage from Taxachussets John Fricking Kerry anyday...

Let's see did I leave anything out hhhmmm don't think I did could be wrong.

:p

[xploded]

Look I agree to a certain extent that all politicians are fabricators, but I will take President G.W. over that flip flooping, whinny, french speaking, michael moore movie watching, liberal, tax increasing, Kennedy(Mary Jo Killing) loving piece of garbage from Taxachussets John Fricking Kerry anyday...

Let's see did I leave anything out hhhmmm don't think I did could be wrong.

:p
I couldn't have said it better myself. AMEN

[kep.ctc]

Can we think back to the election of 2000 and just imagine had Gore been elected President. When the horrid events of "Sept. 11, 2001" occured what would have been his action? Bush decided to make a trip to New York City to view the wreckage of the two land marks. He did this agaist the advice of the Secret Service. In my opinion I feel that he went above and beyond his offical duty. Gore on the otherhand may or {would have} coward in the oval office and issued a statement of so called sorrow.
I see Bush as a stand up man. When he states a goal he follows through on it. His administration has single handily removed two tyrants from power.
What happened to the senate and house [reps. and dems.] when they were joined together after the events of 9-11? That disappeared without a trace.

[kep.ctc]

2008 bring on NYC Retired Mayor Guliani I hope I spelled his name right

[Vollies Suck]

2008 bring on NYC Retired Mayor Guliani I hope I spelled his name right

Now this is an interesting idea! I'd vote for Rudy in a heartbeat if he ran!

This year reminds me of the election of '72. (And yes, I voted in that one, I am that old.) A lot of people hated Nixon, didn't trust him, called him Tricky Dick, thought he was a liar, suspected he was tied up in Watergate (turned out he was), didn't believe he was running the Vietnam War correctly, BUT:

They just could not bring themselves to vote for George McGovern, who was so far left of center in so many ways.

I think W. is an honest man, a decent man, but I think this whole Iraq invasion was a very bad idea, and I am afraid that in many ways it will prove to be disastrous for our country. It was such a bad idea, IMHO, that Bush does not deserve to be re-elected. However, on every major issue that matters to me, Kerry is all wrong, and I cannot even consider voting for him. So, like those Nixon voters in '72, I can either hold my nose and vote for the President, or I can make the symbolic gesture of voting for a minor party candidate.

I feel like a guy at a dance with no one to dance with.

[HAZWOPER]

IMHO? What does that stand for? I consider myself an intelligent person but when it comes to online acronyms, I'm not that savvy. I agree with vs about Kerry, he's way to left. Kerry as the president would be disastrous. But, I'm glad we went into Iraq and removed Saddam from power. I believe that needed to happen a long time ago. Anybody who rapes and tortures his own people is definitely a menace to world order. I think Saddam was a threat to our national security and if left alone would "eventually" be responsible for a deadly CBR attack in America. Once him and his sons were neutralized we could've left with the knowledge that there will never be peace in that region of the world. That part of the world has been plagued by war for thousands of years they're not going to stop fighting no matter who's in charge over there. Once we leave they'll start fighting with themselves again and I say, "let 'em."

[DiablO]

VOTE BUSH IN NOVEMEBER :o

[Snowman]

Perot received 19% of the vote in 1992, and 8% in 1996. Forget the Green Party, Libertarians, and all of the other splinter groups. Focus on voting for one of the two main candidates. If this would have happened in 1992, "Slick Willy" might not have gotten his first term.

The only plus I see about Kerry winning is his pushing Senator Clinton out of the race for at least 8 more years!!!! Maybe she'll have given up by then. :)

[BCFD in Philly]

Perot received 19% of the vote in 1992, and 8% in 1996. Forget the Green Party, Libertarians, and all of the other splinter groups. Focus on voting for one of the two main candidates. If this would have happened in 1992, "Slick Willy" might not have gotten his first term.

The only plus I see about Kerry winning is his pushing Senator Clinton out of the race for at least 8 more years!!!! Maybe she'll have given up by then. :)

Whoa! Kerry winning (God forbid) would set him up for rerun in 2008 and he would have (holding my nose) Hillary as his VP running mate, putting her in the limelight for 4 years, setting her up for her first presidential run in 2012. Deep six that idea!

Our sworn enemies want Kerry in. Don't even hint at helping them out.

[Snowman]

Maybe I was unclear in my last post. I, IN NO WAY, SUPPORT JOHN KERRY'S CANDIDACY. A friend of mine pointed out that if Kerrry did beat GW this year, it would virtually eliminate Hillary from running until 2012. Hopefully, she will show her true colors over the next 4-8 years. That would be the most positive thing coming from a Kerry victory. Also, I don't see Kerry having a running-mate now that he knows is a lame-duck from the start. But, then again, who really understands the workings of the liberal mind. God bless Texas!!

Even though the context of the times is different, I saw a quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson that is relevant today. This isn't a direct quote, but I believe it was very close to, "Democrats are actually Republicans that have yet to see the light."

[Eng166]

In my honest opinion ther is no choice, Presedent Bush,HOORAH!!!!!!

[Iceman]

I'm voting for Bush. Mainly to be sure that a certain labor organization head that has his nose up Kerrys ... does not get what he wants - Secretary of Labor.

[Vollies Suck]

IMHO? What does that stand for? I consider myself an intelligent person but when it comes to online acronyms, I'm not that savvy. I agree with vs about Kerry, he's way to left. Kerry as the president would be disastrous. But, I'm glad we went into Iraq and removed Saddam from power. I believe that needed to happen a long time ago. Anybody who rapes and tortures his own people is definitely a menace to world order. I think Saddam was a threat to our national security and if left alone would "eventually" be responsible for a deadly CBR attack in America. Once him and his sons were neutralized we could've left with the knowledge that there will never be peace in that region of the world. That part of the world has been plagued by war for thousands of years they're not going to stop fighting no matter who's in charge over there. Once we leave they'll start fighting with themselves again and I say, "let 'em."

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion.

There is much truth in what you say, Hazwoper, but here is the problem about us going into Iraq: The US is not supposed to be the world's police officer or liberator. Most countries are not nearly as free as we are, and some are a lot worse than Iraq under Saddam. (Saddam was a regional threat, but lacked the weapons or ambition to be a true global menace. For a real honest-to-God threat to our national security, China and North Korea are far worse.) I am not cold or uncaring about the suffering of Iraqi citizens, but it is not our job to save people from dictators.

That's not what this is about, anyway. If this really was a mission to liberate an oppressed people, why have we not invaded China or North Korea, or Somalia, or the Sudan, or Zimbabwe? Because it's not about liberation, that's why.

We are in this war to show the world that we can do what we want to anybody who threatens us. We also got into it so we could remove our military bases in Saudi Arabia, which were an irritant to Muslims. And we are in it so we can establish a permanent military presence in the Middle East (away from Mecca) to ensure the free flow of oil in years to come.

I love our country deeply, but I wish we would follow the advice of Thomas Jefferson, who wanted the US to "avoid foreign entanglements"...they are nothing but trouble.

[Loo for life]

You are correct in hindsight VS, there have not been WMD's as a whole found in Iraq... However the whole world read into this the all mighty and powerful UN (ooooo aaaahhh), several intelligence organizations ours and other nation's, our President and our Congress all were convinced that they existed.

We can no longer follow our fore fathers advice to not get involved in the problems of other nation's b/c they brought those problems too us on September 11, 2001.

If this was about oil do you really think our price for petroleum would be over 2 dollars per gallon, I think not what you have is a President who has shall I say Character and compassion can we just attack another country NO but this one made it so easy to show that we are not affraid of anyone or anything.

We rolled thru lands of Afganistan when they bogged the Soviets down for years,

We freed a group of oppressed people who we all knew should have been freed in 1991

Was the WMD information flawed YES
Do I believe we should have our troops there in my opinion NO
Is it to have a base of operations in the Middle East YES
Am I glad our military is there kicking ass and helping out now YES

Did we try under the last Person occupying the Oval Office to be the worlds policeman YES lest we not forget we went to Rawanda, Somalia and Bosnia to should we have Hell NO

Didn't we under the last person to occupy the oval office launce a missle or two at an Iraqi WMD plant hhhmm aaaahhhhh YES

So it is a war of conflictions, none the less we are there so let's do what we do best and that is support G.W. and get our troops back home as safely and quickly as possible.

[jkelly2]

Say, whatever happened to the news of the sarin bombs that were found in mid-May? It was 3-4 liters, but as we should know from our Domestic Preparedness Training, a single drop is deadly. The soldiers that encountered the bombs did become sick. Three to four liters of this sarin is too much in the first place.

Was the WMD information justified? YES.

[Nicholson]

:mad:

http://www.firefightersforkerry.com/images/1112.pdf

[Vollies Suck]

Loo for Life, you sound as conflicted as I am. I think this war was a bad idea, but now that we are there, I want us to win decisively, stabilize the situation, and get our boys home.

I like W as a man, I voted for him, and I agree with many of his policies, (and I could never vote for Kerry!) but I think Bush really screwed the pooch on this one, and I am afraid of the longterm damage this war will do to our country.

BTW, watching the coverage of President Reagan's death this past week made me long for the good old days of the '80s...now THAT was a president!

[Loo for life]

This being my 100th Posting on the TWD, I believe this is truly the most fitting use of it....


GOD BLESS AND GOD SPEED PRESIDENT RONALD WILSON REAGAN and THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING

[PrideOfPigTown]

Ted Sampley, a former Green Beret who served two full tours in Vietnam, spotted Kerry and his Secret Service detail at about 9:00 a.m. Monday morning at the Wall. Sampley walked up to Kerry, extended his hand and said, "Senator, I am Ted Sampley, the head of Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, and I am here to escort you away from the Wall because you do not belong here."

[PrideOfPigTown]

Democrat Senators Ream Gore for Attacking Miami's Mayor

Sore loserman Al Gore is caught up in such a frenzy of hatred that he's even attacking members of his own party, but his fellow Democrats are pounding him right back.

Florida's two U.S. senators, both Dems, are furious at Gore for calling Senate wannabe Alex Penelas "treacherous and dishonest" during the 2000 election. Gore is still seething that Penelas, mayor of Miami-Dade County, didn't abet him in his failed coup attempt.

[hog]

BUSH........Kerry is a freaking traitor.....tell him to go with Jane Fonda ......she is the only person worse than him......God Bless The USA and all our troops and veterans

[eyeofthestorm]

bush all the way man, john kerry is nothing but a hypocrite and a weak leader. he says that hes for one issue and then the next day he says a different thing. he keeps attacking bush's war in iraq and the patriot act and homeland security, but of you look at his voting record in the senate, HE VOTED FOR ALL OF THOSE THINGS! go bush!!!!

[Cheatin' Death]

Gotta go for Bush, can't imagine Kerry winning this election. He's a phony.

[207ff38]

Bush needs to learn what the fuck hes doin...hes just in iraq because he wants to finish what his dad didnt finish when he was president.......KERRY ALL THE WAY BABY..

[hog]

207ff38....i was a sailor under Reagan....guess what nobody gave us any crap.....we would kick their asses........look what Clinton did to our military....shut down bases.......cutbacks....etc.....guess what no matter what anyone thinks of this war....(my opinion it needed to happen) we need a strong military and Kerry the traitor he is will just make it weak

[Scorpion]

Gotta go for Bush, can't imagine Kerry winning this election. He's a phony.

Who stood behind us before & after the 9/11 attacks? Bush. Who made sure that America's unity was stronger than ever? Bush. Who sent troops over to Iraq to kill the SOB's that tried to kill us? Bush. Who, after some US troops were killed, made a public worldwide statement saying how bad he felt about the troops dying but stood behind that their deaths weren't in vain (they died doing what they love, serving their country?) Not Kerry. Who organized Operation Iraqi Freedom & won over Iraq w/in a matter of 51 days?

Ok, one last question...who captured Iraq President Saddam Hussein & ended his reign of terror? Bush

Clinton couldn't do it, Gore wasn't going to do it & come to think of it...this guy Kerry hasn't shown up until about 2 months ago, a total of 6 months before election time. Does he really have the American people's good will in mind?

No, Kerry doesn't, but George Bush does. He ran a helluva good election against Gore & won; he stood behind us after 9/11, reassuring America that we were going to safe & he orchestrated Operation Iraqi Freedom, which led to the capture of Saddam Hussein & the continued freedom of the Iraqi people. Some may say he did what his father couldn't do, now he should move on. I say he's doing a great job, the best he can do, & we want the best.

I want a President who's for America. I vote for George Bush. (That's my story & I'm sticking to it.)

[Scorpion]

WhoO! Way to go towaladda124! Nice post! I had to copy it to show it off again. Made me laugh, so true so true...

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion but come on. Since when could you believe a politician?? Kerry says that he is going to do so much for the fire service, but me personally, I have a hard time believing a man that says something different every time he makes a public appearance. Yeah President Bush may not be the friendliest Pres that've had towards the fire service in regaurds to money, but take a look at the BIG picture. He is standing up and defending the entire nation by hunting down those bastards responsible for terrorizing the nation and killing 343 of our brothers!!!! So me, I'd rather have someone in the white house that I can be proud of and feel safe with because I know he's gonna protect our country, rather than a pussy that would sit on his ass, raise taxes, and maybe.....just maybe pad our pockets alittle.

[Scorpion]

"God knows that we want peace and freedom in the whole world, but now we are ready for the 1st war of the 21st century. We are going to finish that evil whose mission is to destroy our peace and frredom. We will do whatever it takes to smoke them out of their holes. We will get them running and we will bring them to justice. WE WANT JUSTICE. God bless America!"- George Bush, September 14th 2001

[DFM]

And did I hear right that the French man said he would cross the same Police picket line in Boston if they were outside the convention that he wouldn't last week ???

[xploded]

And did I hear right that the French man said he would cross the same Police picket line in Boston if they were outside the convention that he wouldn't last week ???


I am sure he will flip-flop that decision a thousand times!!! :mad:

[Vollies Suck]

I am sure he will flip-flop that decision a thousand times!!! :mad:

Kerry the advocate for "sensible gun control" was shown on the news today doing some clay pigeon busting with a nice over/under shotgun. This is intended to kiss the asses of those on both sides of that issue.

It's just like everything else with this guy: He stands for whatever you stand for. And tomorrow, or maybe later today, he will stand opposed to you. Pro-choice on abortion, goes to church and takes communion. Loves the working man, and wants to raise taxes. Man of the people married to a billionaire...etc., etc., etc...

[xploded]

Kerry the advocate for "sensible gun control" was shown on the news today doing some clay pigeon busting with a nice over/under shotgun. This is intended to kiss the asses of those on both sides of that issue.

It's just like everything else with this guy: He stands for whatever you stand for. And tomorrow, or maybe later today, he will stand opposed to you. Pro-choice on abortion, goes to church and takes communion. Loves the working man, and wants to raise taxes. Man of the people married to a billionaire...etc., etc., etc...


Just like earlier this year he told auto workers that he has and drives SUV's---later to enviromentalist he didn't own them. WTF????? I sure hope the voters are smart enough not to fall for this crap. What a let down if this weasel is elected. I am sure he is the candidate prefered greatly over Pres. Bush by the terrorist because they know he is going to bow at the altar of France and the UN.

[Scorpion]

VS- Bush may have "screwed the pooch", as you so eloquently put it, w/ his decisions as President, but what really f*cked up America was the 9/11 WTC attack. Bush did, w/ America's best interests @ heart, what he thought was right. We're certainly not perfect & we can't expect our President to be.

To me, it's Bush all the way! He's got us this far! Why bring someone else in to change the tide? Yeah, things could get better... but they could get a whole hell of a lot worse! We've uncovered some truths to some matters that were plaguing a few American's minds. Now, we're heading into this election w/ a strong President who has America's best interests at heart. Kerry has belittled Bush up one side & down the other, in order to look good in the eyes those who aren't for Bush. What Kerry didn't plan on is he needed to say something to keep their interest, a plan that would produce good things for America; promises he would keep. He has done nothing but express his opinion like Michael Moore & y'know what? :mad: Talk is cheap.

At least President Bush has talked & stood behind his word. :cool:

(BTW, I miss Reagan, too.)

[bcressler]

Bush did what he felt was the right thing to do that is why 51% of americans elected him because we give him the power to do what we/he feels is right for us at the time... 9/11 bush reacted as any american would. Bush went after who was responsible.
Today i will be in York, Pa showing my respect for the President of the United states at his rally. You do NOT have to respect the Man, but you MUST respect teh postion he is in.

[DFM]

I watched President Bush's speech from York yesterday. It was awsome to see the firefighters there in uniform supporting our President. Bet seeing that pissed off the lap dogs of General ("I want to be Labor Sec.) Harold!!!

bcrssler did you make it to the speech?

Now we need to make a good showing at the IAFF-MDA "Night at the Ballpark" Oriole game on July 24th. Wonder if we'll be allowed to anyone will say something if you show up with a Bush/Chaney pin on my IAFF shirt?

[outlawfirefighter]

WWW.FIREFIGHTERSFORBUSH.COM


I Bought a T-Shirt!! Gonna weart it proud!! To hell with the IAFF Backing Kerry
They never asked me or anyone I work with who they wanted to vote for!
NO POLL from them...............

Bush is DA MAN!


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[bcressler]

Yes i had the opportunity to make it to the speech yesterday, i thought it went well but you could not get very close to the stage to see the president. There were approx 10K supporters in attendence so the standing crowd was too think to get close. The president was not all about bashing his opponent although he did make a few comments. in general his speech was very positive. And the Kerry supporters/ idiots in protest out front made for some good entertainment whil sitting in traffic waiting to leave.

[Scorpion]

Now we need to make a good showing at the IAFF-MDA "Night at the Ballpark" Oriole game on July 24th. Wonder if we'll be allowed to anyone will say something if you show up with a Bush/Chaney pin on my IAFF shirt?

Hell yes, I'm wearing a f*cking Bush/Chaney pin on my firefighter shirt. I can't wait for opinions & glances to fly. Gonna be an interesting night... PM me if you want to carpool. :D

[DFM]

I let you know. I still need to get tickets. I only found out about it today when I got to work. The deadline said the 8th.

[Scorpion]

Received from email, intially from an AOL source.

OAK RIDGE, Tenn. - President Bush defended his decision to invade Iraq even as he conceded on Monday that investigators had not found the weapons of mass destruction that he had warned the country possessed.

Allowing Iraq to possibly transfer weapons capability to terrorists was not a risk he was willing to take, Bush said.

"Although we have not found stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, we were right to go into Iraq," Bush said after inspecting a display of nuclear weapons parts and equipment, including assembled gas centrifuges for uranium enrichment, from Libya.

The hardware was shipped here in March as part of an agreement with Moammar Gadhafi to end his country's nuclear weapons program.

"We removed a declared enemy of America who had the capability of producing weapons of mass murder and could have passed that capability to terrorists bent on acquiring them. In the world after September 11th, that was a risk we could not afford to take," Bush said.

The president offered a broad new defense of the March 2003 invasion of Iraq three days after the release of a Senate report that harshly criticized unsubstantiated intelligence cited in the run-up to the war in Iraq, a crucial battle in the war on terrorism.

The key U.S. assertions leading to the 2003 invasion of Iraq — that Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons and was working to make nuclear weapons — were wrong and based on false or overstated CIA analyses, a scathing Senate Intelligence Committee report asserted Friday.

Intelligence analysts fell victim to "group think" assumptions that Iraq had weapons when it did not, the bipartisan report concluded. Many factors contributing to those failures are ongoing problems within the U.S. intelligence community, which cannot be fixed with more money alone, it said.

Without directly acknowledging the intelligence was flawed, Bush said a wide array of government leaders, from members of the Clinton administration to lawmakers to the U.N. Security Council, had studied the same intelligence and "saw a threat."

During the Clinton administration, official U.S. policy toward Iraq became "regime change" — a stance that sought the ouster of Saddam Hussein, he noted.

But Saddam refused to open his country to inspections, Bush said.

"So I had a choice to make: either take the word of a madman or defend America. Given that choice I will defend America."

Bush has used similar rhetoric in speeches for months, but the words took on added significance in light of the latest report condemning the Iraq intelligence.

Bush's trip to Tennessee was designed to showcase a victory in his administration's campaign against weapons of mass destruction.

Bush was shown nuclear weapons parts and equipment from Libya, and called them "sobering evidence of a great danger." It was the White House's second effort to shine a spotlight on the Libyan victory. Several months ago, the White House arranged a tour for journalists of the equipment.

Bush said Libya's decision to scrap its nuclear ambitions and do away with its long-range missiles was the result of "quiet diplomacy" by the United States, Great Britain and the Libyan government. But it also was the result of outspoken public denunciations of nations that seek to threaten the world with nuclear and other weapons, he said.

He said the world knows that doing so carries serious consequences and that the "wise course is to abandon those pursuits."

And Bush said his administration was doing everything possible to avert the attacks he said terrorists are now plotting.

[Hopewell]

For a great laugh, conservatives and liberals alike, click on the following link. It's a political parody by JibJab called "This Land."

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/this_land_af

Hilarious equal opportunity skewering!

[Pride of Port]

That video is a riot!

[Scorpion]

If America had to vote TOMORROW, Bush would win. If you want statistics, give me a couple of days to round 'em up. I'm sure Kathy would assist me, or beat me to the punch. ;) Think about it, though: if tomorrow was Election Day & everyone voted (who wanted to vote- no delays per traffic, etc.), Bush would win.

Sorry, Democrats!!! :p Better luck next time!

By the way, your opinion: did the publication of The 9/11 Report help or hurt Bush? If he's hurt now, will he heal in the long run or vice versa?

[JustoneVoice]

I' m for bush I love bush, that designer shaved stuff don't like it. OOps were talking about the President than what do you think "America what a Country we got Bush in the White House"

[allpro]

If we as a country are so concerned about other countries weapons, why do we always go after the countries that we know are not a real threat?

North Korea, India, and other nation have weapons of mass destruction, and we have yet to invade them. Cuba(communist country) sits 80 miles off the coast of Florida and we dare not touch them. Why? Next someone is going to say that Iraq was funding Al-Quada. So were other countries and businesses. Don't forget we are the only nation to ever drop a nuclear bomb on another nation, and we killed innocent people in the process.

[1014engine]

Don't forget we are the only nation to ever drop a nuclear bomb on another nation, and we killed innocent people in the process.
This is exactly the kind of stick your head in the sand thinking that helped set the stage for 9/11 in the first place.

We should've gone after these terrorist bastards a long time ago: After the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 - 270 killed; after the first WTC bombing in 1993 - 6 killed, over 1000 injured; after suicide bombers attacked United States Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998 - 224 people killed including 12 Americans; or after the 2000 U.S.S. Cole bombing -17 American sailors killed, 39 injured.

If we had been strong and taken care of business then, maybe they would have thought twice about attacking and murdering 3,047 innocent Americans, on U.S. soil, on September 11, 2001.

Dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was necessary to end World War II and actually saved many times more lives than were lost by eliminating the need for a U.S. invasion. We needed the awful destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to make Emperor Hirohito surrender. The estimates were that it would take 1 million American lives if the U.S. had invaded Japan. It would certainly have taken far more Japanese casualties. The atom bomb actually saved lives, American and Japanese lives.

[BCFD in Philly]

Don't forget we are the only nation to ever drop a nuclear bomb on another nation, and we killed innocent people in the process.

Flash: Civilians are killed in all wars - whether it be intentionally or un-intentionally. Approx 32,000 civilians were killed in London during the blitz in WWII by Hitler's V-2 rockets.

Care to comment on this behavior: Flying fully-fueled high-jacked civilian airliners with passengers on board into civilian targets in a country that is not at war with the perpetrators. Who would commit such a heinous act? And surely that is much more justifiable than dropping a nuclear weapon to end a war that had going on for almost 7 years and had already taken hundreds of thousands of lives.

At least you are consistent in all your posts. Cherry pick your facts and leave out other salient information that make your statements look silly.

[allpro]

"We should've gone after these terrorist bastards a long time ago: After the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 - 270 killed; after the first WTC bombing in 1993 - 6 killed, over 1000 injured; after suicide bombers attacked United States Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998 - 224 people killed including 12 Americans; or after the 2000 U.S.S. Cole bombing -17 American sailors killed, 39 injured."

Why didn't we?

"If we had been strong and taken care of business then, maybe they would have thought twice about attacking and murdering 3,047 innocent Americans, on U.S. soil, on September 11, 2001."

I don't think it would have caused them to hesitate at all. They were and still are aware of our capabilities.

"Care to comment on this behavior: Flying fully-fueled high-jacked civilian airliners with passengers on board into civilian targets in a country that is not at war with the perpetrators. Who would commit such a heinous act? And surely that is much more justifiable than dropping a nuclear weapon to end a war that had going on for almost 7 years and had already taken hundreds of thousands of lives."

Just because I'm an American doesn't mean I have to accept everything our government does. I'm also not blind to the fact that our hands are not clean when it comes to world affairs. Was the killing of thousands of innocent people terrible? Hell yes. At the same answer your own question. Who would commit such a heinous act? And why?

It's not as simple as; they are jealous of our freedom, they just hate Americans, or anything else you read in the paper or see on t.v. There is a history of facts that lead up to that horrible event.

[kep.ctc]

"56 minutes of bull*&^%" "gunboat 4 times" Tomorrow I was not on that gun boat that day we burned the villages. LOL :mad:

[closet ff]

The main reason for the terrorist is Islamic nations in the middle east. They teach their childern to hate the west mainly america, so their citizens wont reliese how crappy their life is and over throw the dictators of their nations. The governments of the middle east want power and riches for them selves and nobody else, and they feel that freedom threatens their rule, which it does. That is why they let their nations be free havens for the terrorist, so they can keep the west and freedom from being infuences in their nations. And John Kerry won't due a damm thing about it, except go to the U.N. and cry to them and ask permission to defend ourselves. :p

[BCFD in Philly]

"We should've gone after these terrorist bastards a long time ago: After the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 - 270 killed; after the first WTC bombing in 1993 - 6 killed, over 1000 injured; after suicide bombers attacked United States Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998 - 224 people killed including 12 Americans; or after the 2000 U.S.S. Cole bombing -17 American sailors killed, 39 injured."

Why didn't we?


With the exception of the Pan Am 103 bombing all these events took place under an administration that presided over the gutting of our intelligence services, vastly reducing our military preparedness and worrying what the political consequences of really going after these thugs would bring. Clinton stocked the federal agencies (military and non-military) and the federal courts with politically correct administrators and judges in the name of "diversity".

Just as this bogus "nirvana" of employment practices demoralizes and divides entire workforces, I know first hand from relatives and friends who work(ed) in some of these agencies that the personnel practices had a direct bearing on the level of productivity and quality of job performance by all. Across the board were stories similar to those heard today in the fire service:unable to do the job, rampant incompetence unaddressed for fear of political fallout, "loads" that play their cards as needed, your job at risk if you speak up truthfully about the REAL problems etc.

As evidenced by 9/11, a recipe for disaster, just as the fire service is now finding out.

[Flinger]

Politics these days are a big testosterine show. How can insult the other party the worst. So sick of these jerks these days I just might vote for Santa.
Maybe it is time we get a well educated person who was brought up in the ghetto without a fat checkbook who knows the reality of the other side.

[1014engine]

For those of you who may not know, John Kerry was the former leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). He didn't make his mark in Vietnam nearly as much as he did by returning home to dishonor his country by marching in the streets under the enemy Viet Cong flag, even as the war was being fought. He stood proudly beside Jane Fonda in denouncing America.

His book was called "The New Soldier" and it was published in 1971. John Kerry co-authored the book with the VVAW organization. Don't look for it your local bookstore, though. Even today it is hard to find this infamous book. It's out of print, and reprints are blocked by the author. Used copies are rare and expensive ($420 and up on eBay.) The dust jacket of Mr. Kerry's pro-Hanoi book, "The New Soldier," features a photograph of his ragged band of "hippies" mocking the legendary image of Marines raising the American flag at Iwo Jima with our flag hung upside down - the ultimate symbol of sedition and treachery to all veterans who have ever rallied behind our flag in battle.

Iwo Jima is the Pacific island where nearly 7000 marines died in World War II. Six marines were immortalized in the famous photograph as they raised the American flag over the island. Only three of the six ever lived to go home again. The image of the flag being raised at Mt. Suribachi was further immortalized as the Marine Corps Memorial at Arlington Cemetery.

Kerry not only allied with the likes of "Hanoi" Jane Fonda, but before the United States senate in 1971 he went as far as to belittle the bravery of embattled troops by generalizing their every action in Vietnam as an "atrocity" and calling them "cowards" and "baby-killers." North Vietnam incorporated Kerry's exploits into it's propaganda machine. The communist newspapers gleefully published photos of him speaking to demonstrators and boasted that the marchers displayed Viet Cong flags and a banner depicting Communist Party leader Angela Davis, herself on record as stating, “I am dedicated to the overthrow of your system of government and your society.”

Even as Kerry turned his back on his fellow servicemen and sided with the enemy, some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons. Former POW, Sen. John McCain revealed that his North Vietnamese captors had used reports of Kerry-led protests to taunt him and his fellow prisoners.

Retired Gen. George S. Patton III angrily charged that Mr. Kerry's actions as an anti-war activist had "given aid and comfort to the enemy."

When Mr. Kerry pontificated at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on Veterans Day, a group of veterans turned their backs on him and walked away. They remembered Mr. Kerry as the anti-war activist who testified before Congress during the war, accusing veterans of being war criminals.

After getting hit in the arm by a piece of shrapnel during a firefight, Kerry badgered Lt. Cmdr. Grant Hibbard to put him in for a Purple Heart. Hibbard objected before relenting, and now admits, "I've had thorns from a rose that were worse." Mr. Kerry then went on to lie about throwing what he then claimed were his war medals onto the steps of the United States Capitol; he later admitted they weren't his. Now they are displayed on his office wall.

[careerfemff]

As a IAFF member and supporter, I will again, as my constitutional right allows vote Bush! :D

[TwnshpFF]

Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush
Need I Say More?

[Medic63]

If you are sick of the US being independently governed and want to hand control over to the UN, vote Kerry. :rolleyes:

Otherwise, vote freedom, vote Bush!

[Scorpion]

Vote for Freedom, Vote for Bush! I like that! :D

Here's something I found interesting. http://www.presidentmatch.com/Main.jsp2

It came with: "Your presidential match- who do you share the same interests with? Find out who would make your ideal President."

Of course, Bush won on me!!!

p.s. 1014engine, good find!

[HAZWOPER]

i really hope he wins but outside the fireservice there are sooo many liberals who hate bush.

[1014engine]

From Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/politics/ny-nypols093924274aug09,0,5221213.story?coll=ny-nycpolitics-headlines), NY:

Uniformed firefighters in Bush camp?

BY WILLIAM MURPHY
STAFF WRITER
August 9, 2004

The city's firefighters union has not made an endorsement for president.

The union representing fire officers has endorsed Democrat John Kerry, and the parent union of both, the International Association of Fire Fighters, is a strong Kerry backer.

So with the Republican National Convention coming to town in a few weeks, where does the Uniformed Firefighters Association and its 8,800 members stand?

No one seems to know. The union isn't saying. And in that information vacuum, a rumor has spread in labor and political circles that it will endorse Republican George W. Bush.

"We are not going to comment on that today," union spokesman Tom Butler said Friday.

The chances of it happening are slim, but the potential benefits to the union are so great it is hard to dismiss it out of hand.

The union has been unable to get an agreement with the city on a new contract. The basic term of the contract that the city has vowed will set the pattern for all workers - 5 percent over three years - would be impossible to get past the rank and file.

The city says it does not have the money for higher raises, but the federal government has deep pockets that could be tapped for Sept. 11-related aid, freeing up other money for firefighters.

What's in it for Bush? A convention endorsement from the firefighters who were on the front lines on Sept. 11, 2001 would be stunning.

A photo-op at Ground Zero could be arranged. Maybe a presidential lunch in a firehouse kitchen. Karl Rove would think of something.

That would blow the parent union off the election stage, maybe help re-elect a president, make union president Stephen Cassidy an instantly important person and get the mayor off the hook on one of his many problems. Other than that, there's no good reason for it to happen.

:D

[NBVFD41604]

I like what Bush has done, But some issues I definately disagree with. Politics is not my thing. But it seems as though when things start to calm down, such as over in Iraq, more issues arrive. Did we approach the situation correctly?

[Scorpion]

B etter
U nited
S tates
H ome

I'm not even going to waste my effort on a creative way to express what Kerry means to me. He means nothing. Why would I want a hypocrite in the White House? True, I may not agree with everything Bush does, but he is more of a President than Kerry ever will be.

That's my story- I'm sticking to it- and I'll have words with anyone else who says otherwise.

[Buffy]

You definitely wont see any Kerry stickers on me or my car either. ;)

[Scorpion]

The news has definitely gotten one thing sure-fire 100% correct-

Election 2004 is definitely a TIGHT RACE!!!

[hog]

Kerry is a traitor and liar

[1014engine]

It's absolutely scary to think that this guy has a shot at the White House. And no, I'm not a political guy either, but I truly believe we as a country are in trouble if he wins. Here's a little something I found from the Chicago Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn29.html) that illustrates the point well:

Saturday, August 28, 2004
Mark Steyn

Who's to blame for nation's Vietnam wounds? Kerry

So when John McCain sternly warns the swift boat veterans of ''reopening the wounds of Vietnam,'' it's worth asking: Why is Vietnam a ''wound'' and why won't it heal? The answer: not because it was a military or strategic defeat but because it was a national trauma. And whose fault is that?

Well, you can't pin it all on one person, but, if you had to, Lt. John F. Kerry would stand a better shot at taking the solo trophy than almost anyone. The ''wounds'' McCain complains of aren't from losing Vietnam, but from the manner in which it was lost. Today Sen. Kerry says he's proud of his anti-war activism, but that's not what it was. Every war has pacifists and conscientious objectors and even disenchanted veterans, but there's simply no precedent for what John Kerry did: a man who put his combat credentials to the service of smearing his country's entire armed forces as rapists, decapitators and baby killers. That's the ''wound,'' Sen. McCain. That's why a crummy little war on the other side of the world still festers. ... Because Kerry didn't just call for U.S. withdrawal, he impugned the honor of every man he served with.

In his testimony to Congress in 1971, Kerry asserted a scale of routine war crimes unparalleled in American history -- his ''band of brothers'' (as he now calls them) ''personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads . . . razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan.'' Almost all these claims were unsupported. Indeed, the only specific example of a U.S. war criminal that Kerry gave was himself. As he said on ''Meet The Press'' in April 1971, ''Yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I used 50-caliber machineguns, which we were granted and ordered to use.''

Really? And when was that? On your top-secret Christmas Eve mission in Cambodia? If they'd taken him at his word, when the senator said ''I'm John Kerry reporting for duty,'' the delegates at the Democratic Convention should have dived for cover.

But they didn't. So Kerry is now the first self-confessed war criminal in the history of the Republic to be nominated for president. Normally this would be considered an electoral plus only in the more cynical banana republics. But the Democrats seemed to think they could run an anti-war anti-hero as a war hero and nobody would mind. As we now know, a lot of people -- a lot of veterans -- do mind, very much. They understand that, whether or not he ever mowed down civilians with his 50-caliber machinegun, Kerry is responsible for a lot of wounds closer to home.

[crash_&_smash]

I'm voting for Bush. I see a lot of Hillary Rotterdam-Clinton's "go to hell" attitude in Mrs. Heinz-Kerry. And I don't agree with Former "Pres." Mrs. Bill Clinton using the pulpit at the Riverside Church in New York on Sunday Aug. 29, to talk politics. The church leader should be ashamed!!! Go to the link below for more info
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040829/w082940.html
PS....what do you think of the photo???

[hog]

Mrs.Heinze Kerry has done nothing .....except marry the late and great Sen. John Heinze......she says things and then when confronted she abuses people who don`t agree with her and tries to embarass them....she is a wacko

[Vollies Suck]

..she says things and then when confronted she abuses people who don`t agree with her and tries to embarass them....she is a wacko

Unlike you, of course, you model of civility and culture and good manners!

[hog]

vollies at least i am not a coward like you........wondering if vollies ever did anything for this country besides give oral to Bill Clinton???????

[Vollies Suck]

vollies at least i am not a coward like you........wondering if vollies ever did anything for this country besides give oral to Bill Clinton???????

As I suggested in my PM to you, you really should seek help for your obvious psycho-sexual problems. In about a dozen private messages to me, and now in a public post, you repeatedly bring up the subject of homosexual fellatio. Clearly, you are obsessed with it, and that isn't healthy.

Or maybe you are just an ignorant, uneducated nitwit who is so totally devoid of imagination that this is the only insult your puny mind can conjure...

[hog]

well my little boy maybe you ought not hide behind a computer screen......you are nothing but a loud mouth coward who isn`t even a firefighter

[hog]

another thing there vollies does the truth hurt?

[Vollies Suck]

another thing there vollies does the truth hurt?

Well, apparently it does.

Ever since I pointed out that you seem obsessed with homosexual fellatio, and opined that you should seek professional help to find out why (just a thought: maybe it is one of the reasons your woman left you) you have sent me a series of Private Messages -- six or so in the last half-hour alone --insulting my manhood, professionalism, career, etc., etc.

It would seem I struck a raw nerve in you. If so, please understand that I meant no insult when I suggested you get help. It's pretty clear that you have some really serious sexual identity problems -- you might even be a repressed homosexual yourself -- and if you saw a qualified therapist and figured it all out you might be a much happier person.

[hog]

vollies suck do you even fight fire?....seems to me all you do is talk smack out of your mouth

[X-Log 5]

I am for Bush all the way. Can never trust Kerry.

Vollies Suck. Why do you hate vollies so much. Where I live we do the same training and fight the same fires as paid firefighters do. I know of some paid guys I would never want to have to trust in an emergency. The reason is that they think they are getting paid, then they are better than everybody else. But they never have proven themselves on the field of fire.

[1014engine]

Remember, you heard it here first... :D

Congratulations to the Uniformed Firefighters Association (IAFF Local 94 representing FDNY Firefighters) and President Steve Cassidy for backing the right guy and having the balls to break ranks with Schitberger, the IAFF Grand Poobah and would be Kerry Administration bigwig.

From Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--firefighters-bush0901sep01,0,4469350.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire) :

New York firefighters to endorse Bush

By MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN
Associated Press Writer

September 1, 2004, 6:46 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- The union representing the city's 8,600 firefighters was to endorse President Bush on Wednesday night at a social club in Queens, bolstering the Bush campaign's efforts to focus the nation's attention on his leadership following the Sept. 11 attacks.

Uniformed Firefighters Association president Steve Cassidy said he would announce the union's endorsement while standing beside Bush at the Italian Charities of America hall in Elmhurst. Cassidy said he and Bush would share pizza and sodas with about 100 firefighters and watch Vice President Dick Cheney's address to the Republican National Convention.

"The reason we're supporting President Bush is leadership," Cassidy said. "Post-9/11 we needed someone who had the courage and the integrity to do what was right for this country. The president said he would take the fight to the terrorists, and he has done that."

The endorsement has a symbolic importance out of proportion to the union's relatively small size. The Fire Department of New York lost 343 members on Sept. 11, 2001. One of the most enduring images of Bush has come from footage of him standing on the rubble of the World Trade Center on Sept. 14 addressing rescue workers through a bullhorn with his arm around a firefighter.

The union, which has traditionally backed Republicans and Democrats in local and state elections, did not make an endorsement in the 2000 presidential race.

This year, the Bush campaign has been working to evoke Bush's response to the attacks without opening the campaign to criticism that it is exploiting a tragedy for political ends.

Bush was scheduled to arrive in New York on Wednesday and address the convention Thursday night. He was expected to visit two firehouses Wednesday night.

The firefighters' union is locked in a bitter contract dispute with Mayor Michael Bloomberg; it sent Bush a letter last month asking him to intercede and help the firefighters win higher pay. Bloomberg said even increased federal funding would have no influence on city workers' pay rates.

The International Association of Fire Fighters and the union representing the city's 2,900 fire lieutenants, captains and other officers have endorsed Democratic Sen. John Kerry.

[jkelly2]

Sen. Kerry says he has a better plan for handling the "quagmire" in Iraq. If he has such a plan, why must we wait to hear it? Why must another American serviceman die while we wait to hear Sen. Kerry's solution? If he knows how to handle Iraq better than President Bush, then certainly he should divulge such information through the proper channels, so no more parents have to be visited by a chaplain or telegram!

[kep.ctc]

That's just it there is no plan. OH wait a minute maybe there is:

CUT and RUN, flip flop, and side step

Bush
Kicking ass taking names.

MEDIA= Propaganda can we agree LOL

Why do we only hear and see bad images from IRAQ. =MEDIA

Let's hear some good news for once oh thats right were losing.= media

[Blondiemed2004]

BUSH ALL THE WAY!!

All I have seen Kerry do is change his opinion to suit the "majority" and bash our President. How can you talk S**T about someone when you have never walked in thier shoes?

[1014engine]

Sen. Kerry says he has a better plan for handling the "quagmire" in Iraq.
Want to know how John Kerry would fight the war in Iraq? Ask the swift boat veterans (http://www.swiftvets.com/) who served with him in Vietnam, or read the book Unfit for Command (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260174/002-2331409-6556865?v=glance)…the title sums it up well.

Look at his military record. John Kerry flew the coop after an abbreviated tour of 4 months in combat, on a rule that allowed him to request reassignment after acquiring 3 Purple Hearts, even though none of his required hospitalization. Kinda like one of those guys who suddenly develops an “SCBA problem” and bails out, leaving his crew to face the fire while he stands outside in safety. :eek:

Or look at Kerry’s voting record in the senate, he voted against virtually every defense weapons program. As Sen. Zell Miller said, “This is the man who wants to be the Commander in Chief of our U.S. Armed Forces? U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?”

Senator Kerry even voted against spending to buy the best available body armor for troops in Iraq, against additional combat pay and against better health care benefits for reservists called to active duty. That’s the bill Kerry referred to when he said "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.” :mad:

And if the past is any indication, he’d sit down to have tea and crumpets with the enemy even as the war was being fought, and then defame the soldiers who fought the war, accusing them of being war criminals, murderers and rapists.

But Kerry did say he’d run a “more sensitive war.” Wow. That should have those terrorists shaking in their sandals, huh? Oh wait, that’s right, he doesn't want to use the word "war" to describe our efforts to fight terrorism. Well, to quote Maryland’s own Lt. Governor Michael Steele – “I don't want to use the words "Commander-in-Chief" to describe John Kerry.” :D

[hog]

John Kerry =- coward ...i am a vet and i can not stand what he did in Vietnam....tell Kerry to screw Jane Fonda

[Scorpion]

Democrats Urge Kerry to Turn Up the Heat

By ADAM NAGOURNEY and JODI WILGOREN, The New York Times

(Sept. 5) -- President Bush roared out of his New York convention last week, leaving many Democrats nervous about the state of the presidential race and pressing Senator John Kerry to torque up what they described as a wandering and low-energy campaign.

In interviews, leading Democrats - governors, senators, fund-raisers and veteran strategists - said they had urged Mr. Kerry's campaign aides to concentrate almost exclusively on challenging President Bush on domestic issues from here on out, saying he had spent too much of the summer on national security, Mr. Bush's strongest turf.

As the Labor Day weekend began, Mr. Kerry appeared to be heeding the advice with an aggressive attack on Mr. Bush's economic leadership. But many supporters also said they wanted to see Mr. Kerry respond more forcefully to the sort of attacks they said had undercut his standing and to offer a broad and convincing case for his candidacy.

"He's got to become more engaged,'' said Harold Ickes, a former political lieutenant to President Bill Clinton who is now running an independent Democratic organization that has spent millions of dollars on advertisements attacking President Bush. "Kerry is by nature a cautious politician, but he's got to throw caution to the wind."

Senator Bob Graham of Florida, a former rival of Mr. Kerry for the Democratic nomination, said Mr. Kerry still had not settled on a defining theme to counter what Democrats called the compelling theme of security hammered into viewers of the Republican convention.

"The people are there, the candidate is there; it's the reason to vote for the candidate that's still a little out of focus," Mr. Graham said.

Gov. Edward G. Rendell of Pennsylvania said Mr. Kerry "has got to start smacking back."

And Senator Christopher J. Dodd, an influential Democrat from Connecticut, said his party's standard-bearer had "a very confused message in August, and the Republicans had a very clear and concise one."

.

Mr. Dodd was one of several Democrats who said they now thought Mr. Kerry had made a mistake at his convention in July by talking mainly about his history as a Vietnam War veteran and criticizing Mr. Bush's policies, without offering a vision of what a Kerry term would be like.

"We did not adequately lay out the contrast, compare and contrast what a Kerry administration would do and what the Bush administration has done," Mr. Dodd said of the Democrats' convention in Boston. "That was a mistake. Vietnam, in terms of John Kerry's service, that was a good point to make, but making it such a central point sort of invited the kind of response you've seen."

If nervous about the state of play going into Labor Day, Democrats were far from ready to concede defeat in a contest that typically does not engage until the start of September. They pointed to polls showing continued unhappiness with the direction of the country and Mr. Bush's mediocre job approval ratings.

And not incidentally, they invoked Mr. Kerry's history of getting more focused on a contest only when he was faced with the prospect of imminent defeat; that is what happened when he ran for re-election to the Senate from Massachusetts in 1996 and when he won the Iowa caucuses this year after many Democrats had dismissed his candidacy as finished.

"John Kerry had a great July and George Bush had a good August,'' said Gov. Tom Vilsack of Iowa, one of a handful of Democrats who said they were not concerned by the turn of events. "It doesn't mean a thing. This battle starts right now."

Still, Democrats said Mr. Bush's convention, combined with an aggressive advertising effort by former Vietnam veterans with ties to Mr. Bush's supporters to discredit Mr. Kerry's war record, had turned this contest away from a referendum on Mr. Bush's presidency and into a referendum on Mr. Kerry's character, war record and stand on Iraq.

Some Democrats described this as an ominous development that Mr. Kerry had to address.

"What they did is they lost control of the ball," said Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, who was a senior political adviser in the Clinton White House. "They allowed the election to not be about George Bush but to be about themselves. They have to get back on their game."

And Mr. Graham said, "It's become a referendum on the challenger."

The remarks suggested something of a reassessment by many Democratic leaders who had, almost unanimously, praised Mr. Kerry's convention when he left Boston in July.

Their concern has mounted as Mr. Kerry has fended off an attack on his Vietnam record, and seem to have come to a head after a convention in New York where the Republicans systematically sought to take advantage of what they saw as lapses in Mr. Kerry's own convention. Those included the decision by Mr. Kerry and his aides to focus almost entirely on promoting his biography, for the most part avoiding the kind of sharp attacks on his opponent that were a dominant theme of Mr. Bush's convention.

"If you give me a hundred dollars, I couldn't tell you a single policy thing they talked about,'' Ed Gillespie, the national Republican chairman, said. "They gave us a huge opening, and we jumped on it.''

Mr. Kerry's situation is complicated by the fact that because the Republicans scheduled their convention so late, there is relatively little time to turn things around.

The questions about Mr. Kerry's campaign came as the candidate has beefed up his staff, bringing in some longtime party veterans, and shown signs of what aides said would be a new aggressiveness on the stump and on television. In a break from tradition, Mr. Kerry held a rally at midnight soon after Mr. Bush accepted his nomination to lash into Mr. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney for questioning his combat record, noting that both Republicans had not served in Vietnam.

"You're seeing a different John Kerry," Mr. Vilsack said. "He was up at 12 o'clock at night. He was saying, 'I am ready to rock and roll.' "

Kerry is taking today off at his wife's farm in Fox Chapel, Pa., to celebrate the 31st birthday of his eldest daughter, Alexandra. Some of the criticism of Mr. Kerry's campaign was cosmetic. Several Democrats said they were not happy to see news photographs of Mr. Kerry windsurfing in the Atlantic waters off Nantucket during the convention, suggesting that it underlined the very image of Mr. Kerry - as a wealthy, culturally out-of-touch liberal - that the Republicans were trying to convey.

"I might have gone windsurfing - you certainly have a right to clear your head,'' said Mr. Rendell, a former head of the Democratic National Committee. "But I'm not sure I would have taken the press with me."

Mr. Kerry's aides defended their strategy, saying the campaign would change, as planned, in tone and substance now that the Republicans were finished.

"There are stages in this race and the fall has always been about painting stark difference between the two candidates," said Stephanie Cutter, Mr. Kerry's communications director. "You're just going to see an aggressive campaign that will go right at the real issues in this race."

And while taking questions in Ohio on Saturday, Mr. Kerry said he was not worried about how the campaign was going.

"We're doing good," he said. "They are going to get a bounce out of the convention. But we'll be coming back."

And Democrats said all of this would be forgotten at what was shaping up as the next critical moment of the campaign: the two or three presidential debates, starting at the end of September. Aides to both sides said the encounters could be decisive, suggesting that many more undecided voters would watch them than had seen Mr. Kerry or Mr. Bush at their conventions.

In questioning the Kerry campaign, some Democrats offered challenges to some of its most fundamental strategic decisions.

Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana said Mr. Kerry had spent too much time talking about national security, including his own views on the Iraq war, and overplayed Mr. Kerry's Vietnam war experience, inviting the attacks that have dominated debate in recent weeks.

The focus on security was calculated to erase Mr. Bush's advantage on the issue. But Democratic leaders said the Kerry campaign had become ensnared in a debate that played to Mr. Bush's strength, and diverted him from challenging Mr. Bush on his domestic record.

"He needs to define this election," Mr. Bayh said of Mr. Kerry. "So much of the convention was focused on national security - if that's where the election is, I don't think he can win."

Most of all, Democrats were perturbed with what they described as the Kerry campaign's unsteady response to the Vietnam veterans groups making unsubstantiated charges about the combat medals Mr. Kerry won while in Vietnam.

They expressed sympathy with the political dilemma Mr. Kerry confronted in trying to determine whether to respond to such charges would serve only to draw attention to them, but said they were astonished to see him struggling with what was supposed to be his strength.

"All of a sudden Kerry is on the defensive about his service and Bush is on the offensive about his service," Senator John B. Breaux of Louisiana said. "It's absolutely amazing."

Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm of Michigan said: "I think it is very critical that you don't answer a tuba with a piccolo. If he's hit, and he will be, he needs to stand up and fight."

Mr. Rendell said the mood of Democrats had swung sharply since Mr. Kerry's nominating convention.

"I think there is real concern," he said. But he added, "Everybody has a level of optimism that it can turn around and will turn around."

Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont who lost the Democratic nomination to Mr. Kerry, said Democrats were overreacting, noting Mr. Kerry's come-from-behind victories against William Weld in the 1996 race for Senate in Massachusetts and Mr. Kerry's decisive defeat of Dr. Dean in Iowa.

"They've been very aggressive and they've really turned withering fire on John Kerry and clearly we have to respond to that," Dr. Dean said. "I tell you, I'm the one person in America other than Bill Weld that knows John Kerry can respond."

[Scorpion]

By the way, Vollies Suck is still pissed from his last suspension. All I got to say to him is can't be right all the time-you should know that by now.

[PROVIDENCE]

Go Bush!!!

[Rogue22]

After watching the news this evening, I just have to say that I would love a President who can make up his mind about things. (I'm not saying Bush can't, hear me out...)

Updates on the news say that Kerry is "one step too little too late" when it comes to the economic issues plaguing our communities. He focused too much on horseshit, & "generous affection" w/ his brother, that now when serious issues arise, he doesn't have a strong leg to stand on. He disapproves one thing, then a week later approves it, only to disapprove it once again tonight.

Bush knows what's best for America. At least when Bush makes a decision, he doesn't try to play both sides of the fence. He says what he wants, and he stands behind it. Since what he wants is the best for America (and he has proven that numerous times), America will stand behind him.

Hey, KERRY! You say that "W" in George W. Bush is for "WRONG?" Well, you're WRONG, sir!!! That "W" in George W. Bush is for "WINNER!"

...and John Kerry, a winner is something that you will never be, as long as I got a voice and I got a vote.

Bush for President! God Bless America!

[Rogue22]

How can you talk S**T about someone when you have never walked in thier shoes?

So true, Blondie...so true. I just wish Kerry would make up his mind about his answer to that question.

"All of a sudden Kerry is on the defensive about his service and Bush is on the offensive about his service," Senator John B. Breaux of Louisiana said. "It's absolutely amazing."

What's so amazing about that? Kerry has been a joke, a sham, a fake from the start. The whole time, Bush has had America's best interests at heart. Kerry's defensive strategy is slowly crumbling, and I'm going to love it when Bush attacks Kerry from both sides

...and still takes care of America.

[BCFDTRUCKMAN]

Here's a glimpse at what a hypocratical ass kerry really is...KERRY COSPONSORED BILL BANNING GUN HE WAVES

Was Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry seen this weekend waving a gun which would have been banned if legislation he co-sponsored became law?

Kerry co-sponsored S. 1431 last year (“The Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003) which would have banned a "semiautomatic shotgun that has a pistol grip.”

Opponents of the bill successfully argued how nearly all guns have "pistol grips," inluding millions of Browning Auto-5 shotguns produced since 1903.

Photos show Kerry's hand resting on the "pistol grip," as loosely defined in the bill. [Section SEC. 2; (H) (ii) and (b)(42): "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip."]

Kerry was presented with the semiautomatic shotgun during a Labor Day stop in Racine, West Virginia.

"I thank you for the gift, but I can't take it to the debate with me," Kerry told a cheering crowd as he held up the device.

But Kerry's gun bill would have also banned any "gift" transaction!

[It is not clear if Kerry completed the required paperwork (Form 4473) before he claimed the gun.]

[Bubba B. Bubba]

I can not understand why anyone would vote for Bush.
Especially anyone who is:
not earning in the top 1% of the population (i.e. Fortune 500 CEOs)
not white
not male
not interested in keeping their rights
is not in favor of someone who directed their boat toward the enemy, grabbed a machine gun and in a Rambo like move, charged up the hill killing the enemy.

Just my 2 cents.

[1014engine]

...not in favor of someone who directed their boat toward the enemy, grabbed a machine gun and in a Rambo like move, charged up the hill killing the enemy.
Most Special Forces troopers would reject the "Rambo" stereotype outright but just to humor you...

VIETNAM VET THANKS JOHN KERRY

Don Bendell is a former Green Beret captain, who served in Vietnam on an A-Team and in the Top Secret Phoenix program in 1968 and 1969, as well as in three other Special Forces Groups. He is a best-selling author of 21 books, with over 1,500,000 copies of his books in print worldwide, and a seventh degree black master in four martial arts, who was inducted into the International Karate Hall of Fame in 1995 and Martial Arts Museum of America in 1996. e-mail: don@donbendell.com (mailto:don@donbendell.com)

Thank you, John Kerry, for helping make us Vietnam veterans war heroes now, but you also were the primary reason that the American public grabbed sturdy unbending brooms of judgment and swept us into the closet of silence and shame for so many years. Now, with your latest unreported insanity, you are getting ready for our society to grab those same stiff brooms and sweep our brave, noble young men and women fighting against the War on Terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, ! into that t cold, dark cell of heartbreak and betrayal, like we Vietnam veterans had to endure in silent dignity. I cannot and will not watch this country go through that again.

The hardcore America-hating, Israel-hating, jihad-spouting Muslim clerics in the mideast are very excited and passing around a front page newspaper story from the very anti-American TEHRAN TIMES in Iran. In the country that is home of the world's toughest theocratic dictatorship, an e-mail from Presidential nominee, you, John Forbes Kerry, sent to the paper by your campaign committee, although they deny sending it, was printed word-for-word on the front page of Iran's main newspaper.

Your message states emphatically that, if elected President, you, John Kerry plan to travel to the mideast and elsewhere and apologize for our actions and the actions of President Bush in the War on Terror. You are already apologizing.

It says that you plan to apologize to friends and foes alike. That is right, folks. John Kerry will say he is "sorry," and in his mind, all those jihad extremists, who have vowed to kill all Americans wherever we are, will simply forgive us, hold hands with Kerry, start singing "Kumbaya," and all will be right in the world. This is insane! You have also made statements you will do these actions within 100 days of becoming President.

Senior writer Kenneth R. Timmerman in the March 1st edition of INSIGHT, tells about the massive campaign contributions to the Kerry-for-President campaign by three Iranian businessmen living in the US, who are lobbying for the US lifting of sanctions on Iran and accepting the anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-American Tehran regime and the close ties of one to the chairman of Mobil Oil. "Pro-democracy dissidents" in Iran are shocked and appalled at your remarks, and have reported that in Iran and other Mid eastern countries, that all the extremists and anti-west mullahs who strongly supported the attacks on the World Trade Center, Pentagon, USS Cole, Marine Barracks, and anyplace Americans congregate, want you to become our President, but they are scared to death of George W. Bush. Just think, The Democratic candidate for President, you, John Forbes Kerry, is endorsed by the Al Q'Aida, Hezbollah, PLF, and Hamas.

But on February 27, 2004, in a speech at UCLA , you, while trying to talk tough, despite voting against all major weapons systems for the past 18 years, stated that you will continue the War on Terror, but would use our police forces, and especially those in foreign countries, and you would also put our troops back under the powder blue flag of the United Nations. You recently made comments about Bush making troops fight without Kevlar vests, but you, Senator Kerry, voted against buying them while you were in the Senate. Senate Bill 1689. Passed 87-12. You were one of the 12. Remember?

Like the Kama Sutra, Senator, you change positions constantly. You're not going to end the War on Terror, but instead use police to handcuff terrorists and read them their rights; then a week later, you are going to end the War on Terrorism and apologize to everyone we have offended, such as Iran. What is it going be next week, John Kerry? You flip-flop more than a beached tuna on steroids.

You convinced TV reporters Chris Wallace on Fox and NBC's Tim Russert that a photograph circulating the web and news showing you a few rows away from Jane Fonda at a September, 1970 Anti-War Rally at Valley Forge, was simply a coincidence and that you and Hanoi Jane barely knew each other. But, in fact, Senator, there were only 8 speakers that day, including Fonda, Donald Southerland, and Bella Abzug, and Hanoi Jane funded that rally, and the keynote speaker was you, John Forbes Kerry, executive committee member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

We must be Americans first, and think about our political parties after that. Sometimes we lose sight of that. I have six grown children and two are democrats. I voted for Jimmy Carter. This is not about politics. It is about standing ! up to the ultimate playground bully, and not simply cowering and kissing his shoes.

I left it "all on the field" in the jungles back there when I was medevaced out of Vietnam in March of 1969 and sent back to hospitals in "The World."

Although You, Mr Kerry, painted all of us Vietnam veterans with the yellow brush of My Lai and Tiger Force, most of us, draftees and lifers alike, actually poured our hearts out in the tropical rain forests and in the rice paddies, thoroughly gave it our all, and acted as warriors who had honor.

I have a son earning his green beret at Fort Bragg right now and a daughter-in-law who was on orders for Iraq but is making me a grandpa again.

I am not going to stand by and watch them go through the same treatment we did, because some of our well-meaning fellow Americans choose to wear blinders and believe things just because they heard it on the network news or simply not care enough to get involved.

I am not a "baby-killer, torturer, or murderer," John Kerry. I am a Vietnam veteran and an American who will not soon forget, or ever want to see again, any more jets loaded with fuel and screaming, innocent Americans slamming into our buildings on our very own soil. I have shed enough tears for ten lifetimes. We all have. I will never again let my fellow countrymen get away with making American veterans feel like bastard step-children.

Santayana said, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

John Kerry, I now call on my "Band of Brothers," those who have heard the sound of guns and cries of orphaned children, those who hate war more than anyone who has not been there, to join me in this difficult battle ahead.

Republicans, democrats, independents, and the apolitical, I call on the
25,000,000 veterans of this country to help me confront this evil facing our great nation, not with guns and bombs, but with our voices, our votes, our computers, and with all our fighting spirit.

My fellow veterans, your families, survivors! , and neighbors: God bless you and God bless America.

You want proof of all I have to say. Here are the references:

http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_2889.shtml

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=6246

http://www.iranvajahan.net/cgi-bin/news.pl?l=en&y=2004&m=03&d=01&a=12

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040229-105340-2864r.htm

http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0227.html

http://nyyrc.blogspot.com/

http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_3130.shtml

Want more proof? Read the very exposing February 27, 2004 article, on page 8, of the NY Sun by Thomas Lipscomb, founder of Time Books and publisher of Admiral Elmo Zumwalt's best-selling book. "ON WATCH ".

Also read what the man who pinned the Silver Star on John Kerry had to say about him. The article is entitled "Setting Straight Kerry's War Record"

Please cut and paste this to a new e-mail and send it on to your friends and family BEFORE the election and let them decide if John Kerry needs their vote
-------------------

For more insight into Kerry's rep with the SF community check this out:
http://greenberet.net/Kerry/Index.html

[1014engine]

Publication:The New York Sun; Date:Feb 27, 2004

Setting Straight Kerry’s War Record
By THOMAS LIPSCOMB
Mr. Lipscomb, the founder of Times Books, was the publisher of Admiral Zumwalt’s best-selling book, “On Watch.”

Senator Kerry recently wrote a letter to President Bush complaining, “You and your campaign have initiated a widespread attack on my service in Vietnam, my decision to speak out to end that war,” and warning, “I will not sit back and allow my patriotism to be challenged.”

In the absence of any evidence from Mr. Kerry of an attack from the Bush campaign, Mr. Kerry seems to have originated his own doctrine of “pre-emption.” How valid are his concerns?

No one denies Mr. Kerry’s four bemedaled months in “Swiftboats” or his seven months’ service as an electrical officer on board the USS Gridley, during its cruises back and forth to California, or even his months as an admiral’s aide in Brooklyn, before he was able get out of the Navy six months early to run for office.

Taking a look at Mr. Kerry’s much-promoted Vietnam service, his military record was, indeed, remarkable in many ways. Last week, the former assistant secretary of defense and Fletcher School of Diplomacy professor, W. Scott Thompson, recalled a conversation with the late Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr. that clearly had a slightly different take on Mr. Kerry’s recollection of their discussions:

“[T]he fabled and distinguished chief of naval operations, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, told me — 30 years ago when he was still CNO —that during his own command of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam, just prior to his anointment as CNO, young Kerry had created great problems for him and the other top brass, by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets. ‘We had virtually to straitjacket him to keep him under control,’ the admiral said. ‘Bud’ Zumwalt got it right when he assessed Kerry as having large ambitions — but promised that his career in Vietnam would haunt him if he were ever on the national stage.” And this statement was made despite the fact Zumwalt had personally pinned a Silver Star on Mr. Kerry.

Mr. Kerry was assigned to Swiftboat 44 on December 1, 1968. Within 24 hours, he had his first Purple Heart. Mr. Kerry accumulated three Purple Hearts in four months with not even a day of duty lost from wounds, according to his training officer. It’s a pity one cannot read his Purple Heart medical treatment reports which have been withheld from the public. The only person preventing their release is Mr. Kerry.

By his own admission during those four months, Mr. Kerry continually kept ramming his Swiftboat onto an enemy-held shore on assorted occasions alone and with a few men, killing civilians and even a wounded enemy soldier. One can begin to appreciate Zumwalt’s problem with Mr. Kerry as commander of an unarmored craft dependent upon speed of maneuver to keep it and its crew from being shot to pieces.

Mr. Kerry now refers to those civilian deaths as “accidents of war.” And within four days of his third Purple Heart, Mr. Kerry applied to take advantage of a technicality which allowed him to request immediate transfer to a stateside post.

Once back in the States, Mr. Kerry joined “the struggle for our veterans,” as he called it last week in Atlanta, by joining a scruffy organization called the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The VVAW’s executive director, Al Hubbard, supposedly a former Air Force captain wounded in Vietnam, quickly appointed Mr. Kerry to the executive committee.

Mr. Kerry participated with the VVAW at agitprop rallies such as Valley Forge and the “Winter Soldier” guerrilla theater atrocity trials in Detroit, finally testifying in April 1971 before the Senate as an authority on the war crimes his fellow American servicemen had committed in Vietnam.

Outside of his own “accidents of war,” there is no evidence that Mr. Kerry had then or has now the least idea what may or may not have been the realities of ground combat. However, he had no problem reeling off

for the Senate a series of unproven, secondhand allegations that would have been perfectly at home at the Nuremberg trials indicting his fellow veterans.

Mr. Kerry stated there were “war crimes committed in Southeast Asia...not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-today basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do. Then Mr. Kerry got specific:

“They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam...we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free-fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam.”

In other words, My Lai was just another day in the life of the Vietnam War.

This wasn’t a one-time occasion. The VVAW had been peddling this line from the day Mr. Kerry joined them and had been publishing charges like this for the previous two years. Mr. Kerry repeated them on “Meet the Press” with Al Hubbard, who was found to be a total fraud and who never served in Vietnam, much less was wounded. However, Mr. Kerry has never renounced the charges he made.

Recently, his fellow VVAW supporter, Jane Fonda, has tried to minimize a potentially damaging picture of him a few rows behind her at the three-day VVAW Valley Forge rally in September 1970.And many members of the press fell for the line that it was accidental or coincidental, including Fox’s Chris Wallace and ABC’s Tim Russert.

However, there were only eight or nine speakers that day, including Donald Sutherland, Mark Lane, Bella Abzug, and Ms. Fonda. And far from being a casual audience member, Mr. Kerry, an executive committee member, not Ms. Fonda, was the lead speaker.

Ms. Fonda had been funding VVAW events since before Mr. Kerry joined its executive committee. At Valley Forge, Ms. Fonda said: “…My Lai was not an isolated incident but rather a way of life for many of our military.”

Their appearance together in that picture may be a lot of things, but it was not a coincidence.

Mr. Kerry has already confessed his complicity in killing civilians as “accidents of war.” However, he has offered a classic Nuremberg defense that this was not only a commonplace occurrence throughout the Vietnam War, but he was carrying out a policy “with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.”

His commander of naval operations in Vietnam, who specifically designed the mission that Mr. Kerry and the other Swiftboat commanders executed, Admiral Zumwalt, clearly disagreed. An examination of the truth behind this disagreement is not an attack on Mr. Kerry. It is a matter of vital historical interest.

[eyeofthestorm]

My fellow firefighters,
I am writing to you today, (actually tonight) to express my concern over the controversy over the presidential race that has consumed our nation over the past months. My name is Ted Kennedy, a registered Democrat who refuses to vote for John Kerry. Over the past few months, I have noticed at a number of press conferences that have John Kerry speaking with FIREFIGHTERS FOR KERRY signs in the background. Senator Kerry accuses the Bush Administration of closing firehouses and sending firefighters to Iraq. Furthermore, the Kerry campaign has said that President Bush has misled the nation in regards to the war in Iraq, a motion that Senator Kerry voted for. I want to post a few reasons in response to Senator Kerry’s constant belittling of the President. As far as the closing of firehouses, I know at least a dozen, if not more, firefighters who volunteered to go to Iraq to teach the Iraqi people how to deal with and successfully defeat any fire that challenges them. President Bush was not automatically shutting down firehouses, President Bush was asking for people who were concerned with the sanctity of human life to give their time and effort to help a people, oppressed by over two decades of tyranny, learn how to and effectively prevent fire, the one instance where we are soldiers in a war that never ends. The actions taken by our President were made to honor and protect the memories of the 343 firefighters who died on September 11th, 2001. On another note, the war in Iraq has been criticized by Senator Kerry, saying that the nation was mislead in invading Iraq, looking for weapons of mass destruction. With regards to this issue, I will attempt to put the current situation in Iraq into firefighter terms. You arrive on the scene of a three alarm fire. Fire is blowing everywhere, and you are told by members of a fire that one of the family members is still trapped inside the building. As the fire’s temperature increases, you continue to search, finding nothing. Finally, the fire flashes, killing you and your crew. Upon further investigation, the department finds out that the person who said that there were people trapped in the fire only knew about the whereabouts of the people an hour ago, and as you futilely searched for the victims of the fire, they were not there. You died attempting to save a life. You were acting on one of our nations guiding principles, that all people, deserve the right to life. Now, the Chief who sent you into that flaming, deadly building is being accused of misleading the department. Despite the fact that the most reliable people told him that there were people still in the building. Would you eliminate that Chief? Would you reticule and renounce that chief because he sent firefighters into a hostile situation because he believed that there was human life at stake. What if it was your family? What if it was your husband or wife of child that was in that burning building? Would you expect anything less from your chief or fellow firefighters? I ask you to consider this when you cast your vote on November 2nd. Just remember, one of the candidates (Bush) is willing to instill the values of all firefighters on the nation, the other candidate (Kerry) wants to make excuses for many brave men giving their lives for other Americans and humans. I ask you to seriously contemplate you vote in the 2004 election. What ever your party affiliation may be, I ask you, firefighters of courage, honor and tradition, to take into consideration the actions of our one true chief; the COMMANDER IN CHIEF.
www.firefightersforbush.com
Sincerely Yours,
Firefighter Ted Kennedy

[Rogue22]

Well said & nicely done, brother!

[PrideOfPigTown]

In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."

Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?

[PrideOfPigTown]

EYEOFTHESTORM that was great !!!!!!! Tell us more Ted

[PrideOfPigTown]

"When John Kerry threw his medals away, he betrayed his fellow veterans, he betrayed his country, and he betrayed every American our armed forces have fought to protect," said Admiral Roy Hoffmann, founder of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

The ad shows Kerry saying, "I gave back -- I can't remember – six, seven, eight, nine . . .and that was the medals themselves." Kerry also stated in 1971 that he and others like him "renounce the symbols" of his country.

But those statements were far different from the comments Kerry made in 2004, in which he tried to downplay and re-cast the event. In the 2004 version of his medal-tossing incident, Kerry attempted to say that he only threw away ribbons, not the medals themselves and that, "we threw away the symbols of what our country gave us."

[PrideOfPigTown]

A newly surfaced document from John Kerry's Navy record says he shot a lone, wounded enemy who was running away in the incident that led to his Silver Star, his highest military decoration.

Members of the anti-Kerry Swift Boat Veterans for Truth say the report vindicates their claim that Kerry didn't show the kind of valor that merits a Silver Star. The after-action report was obtained from the Navy archives by syndicated TV commentator Mark Hyman of "The Point." A Navy official confirmed its authenticity.

John O'Neill, a leader of the Swift Vets running anti-Kerry TV ads, said the document shows Kerry "was pursuing a wounded man and not charging alone into superior numbers and intense fire," as his Silver Star citation claims.

[hog]

Kerry = coward

[1014engine]

EyeOftheStorm:
Great post and an excellent analogy.

Kerry voted for the war in Iraq that he now uses to criticize President Bush, just like he betrayed his fellow veterans. He blasts Bush about the body armor for troops issue, when he (Kerry) voted against it ("after he voted for it") in the Senate. :confused: He would sell out anyone or anything to get elected.

"Flip-flop" and "wishy-washy" does not even begin to describe this guy. He's been talking out of both sides of mouth for so long now, even he doesn't know what he believes.

[PrideOfPigTown]

Looking for a Good Read ? Try this

[PrideOfPigTown]

NEW YORK (Sept. 20) - CBS News apologized Monday for a "mistake in judgment" in its story questioning President Bush's National Guard service, claiming it was misled by the source of documents that several experts have dismissed as fakes.


CBS NEWS no matter what you do or day we will not vote for you songbird !

[FF 31-23]

I'm for President Bush.

[1014engine]

NEW YORK (Sept. 20) - CBS News apologized Monday for a "mistake in judgment" in its story questioning President Bush's National Guard service, claiming it was misled by the source of documents that several experts have dismissed as fakes.

CBS should drop the "C" in their name...Dan Rather and his network's credibility is shot. "Unimpeachable source?" Please. Whatever happened to something called journalistic integrity, Dan? And does anyone really believe the Kerry campaign wasn't somehow involved in this botched attempt to smear the President?

CBS was wrong but the Swift Vets (http://www.swiftvets.com) got it right. Their new ad is out and it's right on the money. Nobody has proven those 254 veterans wrong on a single one of the facts!

Oh, and BTW Pigtown, that book is #1 on the New York Times Bestseller list. It's a great read that resonates with truth.

[1014engine]

Announcer: Even before Jane Fonda went to Hanoi to meet with the enemy and mock America, John Kerry secretly met with enemy leaders in Paris.

Though we were still at war and Americans were being held in North Vietnamese prison camps.

Then he returned and accused American troops of committing war crimes on a daily basis.

Eventually Jane Fonda apologized for her activities, but John Kerry refuses to.

In a time of war, can America trust a man who betrayed his country?

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is responsible for the content of this advertisement.

[PrideOfPigTown]

WASHINGTON (AP) - Legislation extending three popular middle-class tax cuts for the rest of the decade sailed through Congress by lopsided votes in both the House and Senate, giving President Bush a major legislative victory on his signature economic issue, tax relief.

Thanks once again George Bush !

[hog]

Bush in `04

[PrideOfPigTown]

You can almost smell John Kerry’s fear. For a while he had almost convinced himself he could win this election. Now as his numbers drop, he is watching states that were once considered “Kerry” states becoming “contested” states. And he is becoming more and more desperate. His recent actions prove the adage that desperate people do stupid things.

[jkelly2]

Senator Kerry missed another vote! The bill "H. R. 1308 Conference Report; Relief for Working Families Tax Act of 2003," which he says he supported, passed. Neither Mr. Kerry nor Mr. Edwards (or Mr. Kennedy, in fact) cast a vote for this bill. Hey, great work ethic, Senators! These senators are not upholding their responsiblities as lawmakers. Many employers will allow an employee to hold a part-time job as long as it does not interfer with the primary occupation; try to pick up secondary employment and spend more time with that than with your original occupation. See how your boss reacts. The public of Massachusetts and North Carolina is the "boss" of these senators. They should be outraged that their employee is not showing up to work! These men are being paid to . . .skip votes so they can gain votes? Can you support a man to be President when he does not set his priorities?!

[hog]

Kerry if for some reason does win ....will only disgrace the military and lie to the rest of us

[explorer305]

If Kerry wins I might leave the country! There is no way i'll take orders from that man, I'd rather shoot myself with my M-16.

[eyeofthestorm]

the president is cutting the cops program in America
Does anyone besides me find it a little ironic that the FOP just backed the president? The Office of Community Policing Services (COPS) originally had a goal to hire 100,000 new law enforcement officers. President Bush exceeded that goal by 18% to make our streets safer.



What kind of message does it send to be sending money to open firehouses in Iraq but we're shutting firehouses, who are the first responders here in America?President Bush’s Assistance to Firefighters Grants represent a 400% increase in funding for the years 2001-2005. President Bush’s 2005 budget request increases annual funding to First Responders 680% over the final budget of the previous administration. President Bush has already awarded over $1.1 billion in firefighter grants in the last three years. In 2003, President Bush allocated over $2 billion to the program “to address the unique equipment, training, planning and exercise needs of state and local emergency responders.” That is more than 26 times the funding level from Clinton’s last two budgets, a 2,600% increase in funding. Man, the irony keeps increasing.

95 percent of the containers that come into the ports, right here in Florida, are not inspected. The Container Security Initiative establishes tough new procedures and created new partnerships with the world’s largest ports to target high-risk cargo before it leaves for our shores. 19 major ports, consisting of two-thirds of cargo containers shipped to the U.S., have agreed to participate in CSI.

But all of them pale when compared to the most important issue in America today: energy. George W. Bush’s greatest failure as the 43rd president of the United States has been his lack of serious action on energy policy at a time when the world desperately needs leadership from America. Yea, energy policy is a good thing. Did Kerry even show up during debate over the Kyoto Protocol? Has he even been present for any debate over the past year regarding energy policy? I can remember when I worked in the Senate, Senator Kerry condemning an initiative to put electricity generating windmills in parts of the many bays in Mass. Why? BECAUSE IT BLOCKED THE VIEW OF THE WATER FROM HIS BAY HOUSE!

the wealthiest people in America a tax cut rather than invest in homeland security Here is a very important thing to remember regarding this subject. The wealthiest one percent of people in America, DON’T CARE IF THEY GET A TAX CUT, they already make so much money, a tax cut won’t help them, nor do they need it. In fact, most of the wealthiest one percent of America supports the Democratic Party. Ironic considering it is supposed to be the party of the middle class. Repealing this tax cut would end up hurting the people who are not super rich. The people who most likely worked their asses of to make their money, Americans actually living the American Dream.

As far as John Kerry is concerned:
- Kerry voted against the creation of the Homeland Security Department on six different occasions.

- Kerry failed to vote on the $29.3 billion appropriation for first responders last year. (Supposedly better for us, yet he didn't even show up to vote for us)

Kerry/Edwards: Help is on the way...Yea right, it's already here. BUSH/CHENEY'04

[paramedic 35]

The worst part about this whole debate issue is the fact that Bush does not seem to do well without his teleprompter. Kerry gave him several opportunities to tear his statements apart and he did not take advantage of them.
Bush, and his administration, need to make a bold statement SOON to win the election. God help us if he loses. El Zarkowy needs to be captured.......
Or better yet, how about this. Publicly behead 100 Iraqi detainees for every American beheaded........Oh, I forgot, the BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS would turn this act of defiance into a circus that would make Bush look like a murderer.

Oh well, I still think it sounds like a good idea.

Lets pray that Bush can pull this one out. If not lets hope we can all find a safe place to hide when the worlds terrorist organizations decide to attack the piss-poor world of Kerry / Edwards better idea for America.

[1014engine]

Superb article from Accuracy In Media (http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/1974_0_2_0). So why isn't the Washington Post reporting this?

ALL IAFF members, regardless of their political leaning, should be outraged by this and demand Schaitberger's immediate impeachment.

Firefighters Versus the Media
By Cliff Kincaid | September 28, 2004

. . . the president of the firefighters union engineered an endorsement of John Kerry for president without asking his members about it.

One of the biggest stories of the presidential campaign is being ignored by the major media. It's how the president of the firefighters union engineered an endorsement of John Kerry for president without asking his members about it. It turns out most of the members of the union are Republicans who support Bush.
Harold Schaitberger, the president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, the IAFF, has received tons of publicity and has been shown repeatedly with Kerry at campaign events. These appearances convey the impression that the firefighters who performed heroically on 9/11 have abandoned Bush. But it's Schaitberger who abandoned his members.
During the Republican convention, the union representing New York City's 8,600 firefighters endorsed Bush. But stories about this development tried to diminish the significance of the endorsement by noting that the international union, the IAFF, had endorsed Kerry. The stories failed to explain, as we did in a recent Media Monitor, that Schaitberger made this decision without polling his members. Instead, a few members were asked about the characteristics they wanted in a president. On that basis, Scahitberger decided to endorse Kerry. Schaitberger admitted to MSNBC's Chris Matthews that there are more Republicans than Democrats in his union.
"Thank you so very much for your work on exposing these facts." That's how a professional firefighter and member of the IAFF local 2876 of South Kitsap Fire District 7 in Washington state responded to our Media Monitor on this matter. He told us, "I am so sick and tired of union 'leaders' talking for us, so much so that I don't pay into the PAC [political action committee] fund anymore because it does not represent my views or the majority of those of my co-workers either. No one in our department, to my knowledge, received or heard of a poll regarding who we supported. I am a proud firefighter for Bush as are, I believe by straw poll, a great many of my fellow firefighters, including our VP. "
Using the same old ploy, a Newsday story about the firefighters' endorsement of Bush claimed that, "the International Association of Fire Fighters unanimously endorsed Kerry and its members have since often campaigned with him." But that once again ignores the fact that the endorsement was delivered without polling members of the union. Not surprisingly, the New York Times compounded the error. It declared, "A year ago, the nation's main firefighters' union, the 260,000-member International Association of Firefighters, became the first large union to endorse Mr. Kerry." That falsely implied that these 260,000 members had voted to endorse Kerry.
The Firefighters for Bush website continues to ask firefighters whether any of them were ever consulted by Schaitberger about the Kerry endorsement. One posted the following answer: "I don't think anyone but Schaitberger's opinion counts at all. The IAFF is stealing our dues to support Kerry." Another said, "It's disgusting a portion of our dues go toward campaigning against President Bush." This is the story that the media should tell.

Accuracy In Media is a non-profit, grassroots citizens watchdog of the news media that critiques botched and bungled news stories and sets the record straight on important issues that have received slanted coverage.
Contact Information
Address:
4455 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
Suite #330
Washington, D.C. 20008
Phone: (202) 364-4401
Fax: (202) 364-4098

[No Fear]

Asked the New York guys who they are going with. And I'm going with them.

GO BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD HELP US IF KERRY WINS

[PrideOfPigTown]

I just recieved my IAFF Newsletter that is nothing but a John Kerry political poster. I throw it in the trash before I even look at it. Go ahead and waste somemore of the Firefighters dues Harold. Dont Poll the members that is not the Liberal thing to do. But I can give you a small description of what your newsletter smells like now as it rots in my trashcan surounded by Bush Light beer bottles, my 2 year olds diapers and a large assortment of household waste. It smells just like the Rat that the IAFF is supporting for President of our Country. Heres too your loss Kerry.

PS. If you loose you will not recieve a Purple Heart for your broken heart.

[Hey Slim]

to all u assholes that say bush did'nt serve his country, thats bullshit!
just because he did'nt go to vietnam dose'nt mean he did'nt serve his country
I had 3 brothers n the military during the vietnam war. only 1 went to nam, my other 2 brothers served there country just as well. so get off the (he did'nt go to nam shit)
many men and woman served there country even though they did'nt go to nam. shit, clinton went to canada.so not going to nam dosent mean "W" dosent love this countryas much as Kerry.

fuck kerry, "W" all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hog]

Hey Slim i agree with you on that.........Kerry is the one that tried to play his war hero trump card and it came back to bite him in the ass

[No Fear]

Hog , about time you said something that wasn't brainless, there hope for you yet!

[PrideOfPigTown]

The Trash can is smelling really bad John. Just like your campaign !

George Bush all the way !

[hog]

No Fear coming from you i don`t really care

[No Fear]

Hog, Good for you

[hog]

why thank you No Fear you are an ok dude

[Hells Guardian]

Hog, OMG I have to agree with you! You may make me a believer yet!

BUSH ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!

[KingDickUla]

I wonder if Barbara and Jenna have a hairy BUSH??

BUSH ALL THE WAY !!!

[1014engine]

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge
BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun
October 13, 2004
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/3107

An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.

The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.

According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.

A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.

The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.

The most routine time for Mr. Kerry's discharge would have been at the end of his six-year obligation, in 1972. But how was it most likely to have come about?

NBC's release this March of some of the Nixon White House tapes about Mr. Kerry show a great deal of interest in Mr. Kerry by Nixon and his executive staff, including, perhaps most importantly, Nixon's special counsel, Charles Colson. In a meeting the day after Mr. Kerry's Senate testimony, April 23, 1971, Mr. Colson attacks Mr. Kerry as a "complete opportunist...We'll keep hitting him, Mr. President."

Mr. Colson was still on the case two months later, according to a memo he wrote on June 15,1971, that was brought to the surface by the Houston Chronicle. "Let's destroy this young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader." Nixon had been a naval officer in World War II. Mr. Colson was a former Marine captain. Mr. Colson had been prodded to find "dirt" on Mr. Kerry, but reported that he couldn't find any.

The Nixon administration ran FBI surveillance on Mr. Kerry from September 1970 until August 1972. Finding grounds for an other than honorable discharge, however, for a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, given his numerous activities while still a reserve officer of the Navy, was easier than finding "dirt."

For example, while America was still at war, Mr. Kerry had met with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong delegation to the Paris Peace talks in May 1970 and then held a demonstration in July 1971 in Washington to try to get Congress to accept the enemy's seven point peace proposal without a single change. Woodrow Wilson threw Eugene Debs, a former presidential candidate, in prison just for demonstrating for peace negotiations with Germany during World War I. No court overturned his imprisonment. He had to receive a pardon from President Harding.

Mr. Colson refused to answer any questions about his activities regarding Mr. Kerry during his time in the Nixon White House. The secretary of the Navy at the time during the Nixon presidency is the current chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Warner. A spokesman for the senator, John Ullyot, said, "Senator Warner has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."

The "board of officers" review reported in the Claytor document is even more extraordinary because it came about "by direction of the President." No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president. The president at that time was James Carter. This adds another twist to the story of Mr. Kerry's hidden military records.

Mr. Carter's first act as president was a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. Less than an hour after his inauguration on January 21, 1977, while still in the Capitol building, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering it. By the time it became a directive from the Defense Department in March 1977 it had been expanded to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge.

Mr. Kerry has repeatedly refused to sign Standard Form 180, which would allow the release of all his military records. And some of his various spokesmen have claimed that all his records are already posted on his Web site. But the Washington Post already noted that the Naval Personnel Office admitted that they were still withholding about 100 pages of files.

If Mr. Kerry was the victim of a Nixon "enemies list" hit, one might have expected him to wear it like a badge of honor, like many others such as his friend Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers, CBS's Daniel Schorr, or the actor Paul Newman, who had made Mr. Colson's original list of 20 "enemies."

There are a number of categories of discharges besides honorable. There are general discharges, medical discharges, bad conduct discharges, as well as other than honorable and dishonorable discharges. There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged. Mr. Kerry has claimed that he lost his medal certificates and that is why he asked that they be reissued. But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued.

[Think Logically]

As a member of IAFF, I am very disappointed that the organization makes such poor decisions such as supporting Kerry. Now, we all know where our money goes when we pay our dues, to support presidential candidate "I'm an awesome war hero, because one time at war camp, I............." Kerry.

Please November come quickly, so the name Kerry can be forgotten just as quickly as um........oh yeah.......Al Gore.

GO BUSH!!!!!!

[No Fear]

I with ya Think,

[1014engine]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/opinion/19franks.html

War of Words
By TOMMY FRANKS

Published: October 19, 2004
President Bush and Senator John Kerry have very different views of the war on terrorism, and those differences ought to be debated in this presidential campaign. But the debate should focus on facts, not distortions of history.
On more than one occasion, Senator Kerry has referred to the fight at Tora Bora in Afghanistan during late 2001 as a missed opportunity for America. He claims that our forces had Osama bin Laden cornered and allowed him to escape. How did it happen? According to Mr. Kerry, we "outsourced" the job to Afghan warlords. As commander of the allied forces in the Middle East, I was responsible for the operation at Tora Bora, and I can tell you that the senator's understanding of events doesn't square with reality.

First, take Mr. Kerry's contention that we "had an opportunity to capture or kill Osama bin Laden" and that "we had him surrounded." We don't know to this day whether Mr. bin Laden was at Tora Bora in December 2001. Some intelligence sources said he was; others indicated he was in Pakistan at the time; still others suggested he was in Kashmir. Tora Bora was teeming with Taliban and Qaeda operatives, many of whom were killed or captured, but Mr. bin Laden was never within our grasp.

Second, we did not "outsource" military action. We did rely heavily on Afghans because they knew Tora Bora, a mountainous, geographically difficult region on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. It is where Afghan mujahedeen holed up for years, keeping alive their resistance to the Soviet Union. Killing and capturing Taliban and Qaeda fighters was best done by the Afghan fighters who already knew the caves and tunnels.

Third, the Afghans weren't left to do the job alone. Special forces from the United States and several other countries were there, providing tactical leadership and calling in air strikes. Pakistani troops also provided significant help - as many as 100,000 sealed the border and rounded up hundreds of Qaeda and Taliban fighters.

Contrary to Senator Kerry, President Bush never "took his eye off the ball" when it came to Osama bin Laden. The war on terrorism has a global focus. It cannot be divided into separate and unrelated wars, one in Afghanistan and another in Iraq. Both are part of the same effort to capture and kill terrorists before they are able to strike America again, potentially with weapons of mass destruction. Terrorist cells are operating in some 60 countries, and the United States, in coordination with dozens of allies, is waging this war on many fronts.

As we planned for potential military action in Iraq and conducted counterterrorist operations in several other countries in the region, Afghanistan remained a center of focus. Neither attention nor manpower was diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq. When we started Operation Iraqi Freedom we had about 9,500 troops in Afghanistan, and by the time we finished major combat operations in Iraq last May we had more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan.

We are committed to winning this war on all fronts, and we are making impressive gains. Afghanistan has held the first free elections in its history. Iraq is led by a free government made up of its own citizens. By the end of this year, NATO and American forces will have trained 125,000 Iraqis to enforce the law, fight insurgents and secure the borders. This is in addition to the great humanitarian progress already achieved in Iraq.

Many hurdles remain, of course. But the gravest danger would result from the withdrawal of American troops before we finish our work. Today we are asking our servicemen and women to do more, in more places, than we have in decades. They deserve honest, consistent, no-spin leadership that respects them, their families and their sacrifices. The war against terrorism is the right war at the right time for the right reasons. And Iraq is one of the places that war must be fought and won. George W. Bush has his eye on that ball and Senator John Kerry does not.

Tommy Franks, a retired general and former commander in chief of the Central Command, is the author of "American Soldier." He is a member of Veterans for Bush.

10-14Engine salutes General Franks, a great American. Hooah!

[hog]

that air force pilot who got shot down over Bosnia...Scott O,Grady.... was on KDKA radio in Pittsburgh said that Kerry with his voting record about defense is horrible and that he would put this country in jeopardy

[eyeofthestorm]

Get Out And Rock The Vote People!!!!!!!!!!!

[paramedic 35]

Well, the people have spoken and, thank God, they showed sound judgement.
The strength of George W. has won over the .... what ever the hell you would call Kerry.

Time to close this thread and look towards 2008. My prediction is Rudy Giuliani as the GOP nominee for Pres.

[No Fear]

WHO'S THE DADDY, ITS A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE WHEN YOU KNOW THAT PRESIDENT BUSH IS ON OUR SIDE, ITS A FINE TIME IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE WON'T HEAR KERRY GO BOOO HOOOO - HOOOO.

McCain I think will be the next one president

[kep.ctc]

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/national04.php

A neat election site shows how counties and states voted they break it down.

[eyeofthestorm]

its amazing that there were so many too close to call states, considering a majority of the counties went to bush.

[SplitSecond40]

Bush may have won...but he's still an asshole. He can take two seconds out of his busy day...and he can go play a game of go hide and f*ck himself. Have a nice day. :cool:

[scfire86]

It's good to be the King.

[hog]

Bush may have won...but he's still an asshole. He can take two seconds out of his busy day...and he can go play a game of go hide and f*ck himself. Have a nice day. :cool:
and you think that traitor Kerry would do a better job?......he did one hell of a job visiting the enemy when we were at war....maybe he would kiss the UN`s ass ....the UN is nothing but a corupt joke and that idiot would do whatever they said

[SplitSecond40]

It's good to be the King.

Anheiwser Busch...king of beers. George DubYA(W) Bush...king of fags. That pic shouts homo pretty loud. Hell he's getting one in the ass and taking a hummer from some bitch in a suit.

[SplitSecond40]

and you think that traitor Kerry would do a better job?......he did one hell of a job visiting the enemy when we were at war....maybe he would kiss the UN`s ass ....the UN is nothing but a corupt joke and that idiot would do whatever they said

Ya know what...bitch all you want. Think you could do a better job, then run for office, after you do it, then go ahead and criticize. And another thing, yeah he may have done some taboo shit back in the day, but since when is this country about hanging something over someone's head their entire life. I've fucked up before, and I'm sure you have too...no one's perfect. And you wanna bitch about Kerry, well let him in office just to show you what kind of job he can do. When he does better than dickbag...oops I mean Bush, then he makes asses of all you GOP'ers and when he gets in and makes Bush look like the moron he is, then I'll laugh my ass off. He fucks up, then you'll have the laugh, but then at least we'll know the truth of who's the best man for the job and not just assuming.

[BCFD in Philly]

Anheiwser Busch...king of beers. George DubYA(W) Bush...king of fags. That pic shouts homo pretty loud. Hell he's getting one in the ass and taking a hummer from some bitch in a suit.

So are you the guy in the back or in the front?

Hopefully you have forwarded this to Michael Moore to be included in his next factual "documentary"?

[Emtmom]

Now boys, the election is over, we are stuck with who we are stuck with for the next 4 years. Get used to it!

[No Fear]

Well the only thing I can recommend you to do split is move to another fucking country and see if its any better. There are many ways to get there. At least John Kerry has the balls to get over it, something obviously you can't. But one thing is also obvious, you had no problem figuring the picture out, imagine that. I guess it takes one to know one , huh? Have a happy holiday.

[hog]

Ya know what...bitch all you want. Think you could do a better job, then run for office, after you do it, then go ahead and criticize. And another thing, yeah he may have done some taboo shit back in the day, but since when is this country about hanging something over someone's head their entire life. I've fucked up before, and I'm sure you have too...no one's perfect. And you wanna bitch about Kerry, well let him in office just to show you what kind of job he can do. When he does better than dickbag...oops I mean Bush, then he makes asses of all you GOP'ers and when he gets in and makes Bush look like the moron he is, then I'll laugh my ass off. He fucks up, then you'll have the laugh, but then at least we'll know the truth of who's the best man for the job and not just assuming.
I have every right to critize...first off i voted second i served my country and asshole Kerry should be exiled for not only how he embarassed this country but how he disrespected our fighting forces in Vietnam.......Kerry is the one who brought up his military service you fool so before you TRY and jump my shit get your facts straight....oh yea Kerry is still a loser and lost the election because Americans voted with their hearts and brains

[xploded]

The thing you people fail to realize-- G.W. Bush--Pres. of the USA
Hanoi John Kerry----LOSER

[hog]

The thing you people fail to realize-- G.W. Bush--Pres. of the USA
Hanoi John Kerry----LOSER
that couldn`t of been said any better

[No Fear]

Well I guess Split, split to another country.

[Chia6004]

This topic is still going.

[No Fear]

Yep Chia, people are still crying

[scfire86]

I have every right to critize...first off i voted second i served my country and asshole Kerry should be exiled for not only how he embarassed this country but how he disrespected our fighting forces in Vietnam.......Kerry is the one who brought up his military service you fool so before you TRY and jump my shit get your facts straight....oh yea Kerry is still a loser and lost the election because Americans voted with their hearts and brains

What I really appreciated about the last campaign was the nagging question of how medals are awarded. I always wondered about that process. But thanks to the Bush supporters via the Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth I now know. You just put in the right paperwork, hoodwink your superiors and voila'. You can have almost any medal you want. There is no oversight and few checks and balances. From now on I'm going to ask every one I meet who has medals about their validity. Sooooo, all those whom I thought had actually served their country, put themselves in harm's way and were possibly injured or killed are really just big frauds. Because the Bush supporters let me know that official military records are really pretty meaningless.

Thank goodness for the Swifties. I would have gone the rest of my life thinking those people were actually heroes. Now I know otherwise because they were for the TRUTH.

[hog]

What I really appreciated about the last campaign was the nagging question of how medals are awarded. I always wondered about that process. But thanks to the Bush supporters via the Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth I now know. You just put in the right paperwork, hoodwink your superiors and voila'. You can have almost any medal you want. There is no oversight and few checks and balances. From now on I'm going to ask every one I meet who has medals about their validity. Sooooo, all those whom I thought had actually served their country, put themselves in harm's way and were possibly injured or killed are really just big frauds. Because the Bush supporters let me know that official military records are really pretty meaningless.

Thank goodness for the Swifties. I would have gone the rest of my life thinking those people were actually heroes. Now I know otherwise because they were for the TRUTH.
that is nothing but a crock of BULL....first off the swift boat vets were there serving with Kerry......why would they lie.....Kerry met with the enemy at a time of war...(i am not saying the war was right or wrong)....that is a traitor to this country....finally he lost get over it......support this country ....quit crying over what the people wanted......my personal opinion ...Kerry is a no good son of a bitch who shit in the Vietnam Vets faces....so "F" him

[scfire86]

that is nothing but a crock of BULL....first off the swift boat vets were there serving with Kerry......why would they lie.....Kerry met with the enemy at a time of war...(i am not saying the war was right or wrong)....that is a traitor to this country....finally he lost get over it......support this country ....quit crying over what the people wanted......my personal opinion ...Kerry is a no good son of a bitch who shit in the Vietnam Vets faces....so "F" him

Whoa there good buddy. There were other people serving with Kerry who backed up his stories. Including the Green Beret Lt. that got fished out of the water where Kerry won his Silver Star. Why would they lie? And the citations of his critics (who also won medals at the same events) stated the same circumstances as Kerry's. But somehow Kerry's supporters are all liars and Bush's supporters are all telling the truth. Talk about hypocrisy. Fortunately, for all Americans, treason isn't what some AM hate radio drug addict says it is. Otherwise we'd all be suspect at one time or another.

And for the record, I support this country. I wasn't the one who was claiming fraud on the part of someone else's heroism. I leave that to conservatives. If you are a person who served in uniform, you must've been a coward or a traitor. It's now been done to several former military personnel who have been critical of the current administration. Kerry goes to Vietnam and he is a traitor. Gen. Shinseki (who left half a foot in Vietnam, and dealt with insurgents in Bosnia) tells the administration there aren't enough troops for the War in Iraq, but chickenhawk Wolfowitz calls him a 'crackpot', Rhodes scholar and decorated Vietnam veteran Gen Wesley Clark (who also graduated second in his class at West Point) is a 'metrosexual' because he wore a sweater. All by people around the President who never served a day in uniform or actively avoided military service. You have to like the irony of that. Yet conservatives tell us only they can be patriots. Thank you for reinforcing my beliefs.

And I realize Bush won. You too are a master of the obvious. And I'm over it.

You have me all wrong. I'm not being critical of the Swifties. I am actually grateful for their public service. I now know all the talk of heroics by those who serve in the military is probably all bunk. You should be thanking them as well.

[Emtmom]

that is nothing but a crock of BULL....first off the swift boat vets were there serving with Kerry......why would they lie.....Kerry met with the enemy at a time of war...(i am not saying the war was right or wrong)....that is a traitor to this country....finally he lost get over it......support this country ....quit crying over what the people wanted......my personal opinion ...Kerry is a no good son of a bitch who shit in the Vietnam Vets faces....so "F" himUmmm the guy who originally came out with this, admitted that he lied, when it came out that he got the same medals during the same battle. HIS paperwork for his medals MATCHED Kerry's! Gunfire and all, so who lied????????????

[hog]

Ummm the guy who originally came out with this, admitted that he lied, when it came out that he got the same medals during the same battle. HIS paperwork for his medals MATCHED Kerry's! Gunfire and all, so who lied????????????
Kerry is a trator bottom line....Kerry is the one who brought up all this about medals and his service or i mean his 4 months.......that is all i have to say about that prick....

[No Fear]

Well, Well , I see the liberals are still crying. Now its about medals for our brave men and women who have served and now serve this great country. Bottom line Mom or SC Fire did you serve your country in the armed forces. If YOU didn't who in the hell are you guys to questioned medals. I got a medal, deserve it to. In fact my commanding officer turn me in for that medal, No I didn't asked for it, but I appreciate it when commanding officer recognizes bravery, above meritous service, etc. I will agree with you on one account there were some that got medal in Vietnam for minor injuries. I questioned how Kerry got three purple hearts in six months, pretty quick since I know other Vietnam vets who been there for a year or more who were in fire fights got nothing or bronze or silver stars. Do I question any of them on their medal. FUCK NO! If Kerry got three purple hearts, So Be it, He was there no matter how he got them, a scratch, cut, bullet hole etc. If you spill American Blood in a time of war, I don't care who you are, you deserving of a medal. SC FIRE your comments on our brave service men and women regarding to recieving medals are despicable, cowardly, and to the point of communism. I resent it whole heartily. I stand by the freedom of speech, however when it come to questioning our armed forces bravery and dedication it a slap in every American face and if you haven't done it maybe you shouldn't comment on it. I hold no bad feeling for Kerry, even tho I supported Bush, but once and for all Bush won, get over it. Or the long saying of America Love It Or Leave comes into play

Have a great day.

[Emtmom]

Well, Well , I see the liberals are still crying. Now its about medals for our brave men and women who have served and now serve this great country. Bottom line Mom or SC Fire did you serve your country in the armed forces. If YOU didn't who in the hell are you guys to questioned medals. I got a medal, deserve it to. In fact my commanding officer turn me in for that medal, No I didn't asked for it, but I appreciate it when commanding officer recognizes bravery, above meritous service, etc. I will agree with you on one account there were some that got medal in Vietnam for minor injuries. I questioned how Kerry got three purple hearts in six months, pretty quick since I know other Vietnam vets who been there for a year or more who were in fire fights got nothing or bronze or silver stars. Do I question any of them on their medal. FUCK NO! If Kerry got three purple hearts, So Be it, He was there no matter how he got them, a scratch, cut, bullet hole etc. If you spill American Blood in a time of war, I don't care who you are, you deserving of a medal. SC FIRE your comments on our brave service men and women regarding to recieving medals are despicable, cowardly, and to the point of communism. I resent it whole heartily. I stand by the freedom of speech, however when it come to questioning our armed forces bravery and dedication it a slap in every American face and if you haven't done it maybe you shouldn't comment on it. I hold no bad feeling for Kerry, even tho I supported Bush, but once and for all Bush won, get over it. Or the long saying of America Love It Or Leave comes into play

Have a great day.I never questioned Medals, I simply stated that the guy who claimed that Kerry didn't earn his later said that he had lied. That he had also recieved medals in the same rescue. Reread it, I NEVER questioned them getting their medals!

[No Fear]

Well mom if you were not taking up for SC Fire then I apologize for it, however I am tired of people bashing our American service men and women, medals whatever. Its time to give this a break, because it starting to remind me of the Vietnam era and its over except for the POWS, (they are not forgotten).

[scfire86]

Well, Well , I see the liberals are still crying. Now its about medals for our brave men and women who have served and now serve this great country. Bottom line Mom or SC Fire did you serve your country in the armed forces. If YOU didn't who in the hell are you guys to questioned medals. I got a medal, deserve it to.

Matter of factly I did serve my country. I was fortunate to serve during peacetime. I'm not questioning your medals. Because Bush's supporters did all that for me. They're are the ones who have impugned those who served and were given medals. They are the ones who slapped in the face all those who served during wartime in a war zone.

You say you deserve your medals. How do I know? Maybe I meet a couple of your squad mates who say otherwise. So now there is doubt. After all, the Swifties told us to ignore official citations and documentation.

They're the ones you should be calling traitors and communists. I believe in America and capitalism. You didn't hear any of Kerry's supporters questioning anyone's wartime experiences or decorations. The loudest voices came from conservatives, many of whom have never served in uniform, and actively avoided military service during the Vietnam era.

[Emtmom]

It just might be time for this thread to die. Looks like people are being misunderstood, may just be time to let the sleeping dog lie!

[No Fear]

Matter of factly I did serve my country. I was fortunate to serve during peacetime. I'm not questioning your medals. Because Bush's supporters did all that for me. They're are the ones who have impugned those who served and were given medals. They are the ones who slapped in the face all those who served during wartime in a war zone.

You say you deserve your medals. How do I know? Maybe I meet a couple of your squad mates who say otherwise. So now there is doubt. After all, the Swifties told us to ignore official citations and documentation.

They're the ones you should be calling traitors and communists. I believe in America and capitalism. You didn't hear any of Kerry's supporters questioning anyone's wartime experiences or decorations. The loudest voices came from conservatives, many of whom have never served in uniform, and actively avoided military service during the Vietnam era.


Personally I could give a shit less what you think about my medals and all scfire. And who was it who brought Bush's military record up, the tooth fairy. Sounds like liberal to me, plus it was old news from the last election. It sounds to me like your just like the ones you say tainted people getting medals by basically saying there right. And I 'm sorry if you truly believe people running for office over a veteran word about their medals. That is truly sad.

[Chia6004]

SCfire your new so I will share this with you, give it up. You will not change their minds, liberals on these boards are vastly outnumbered, all that you will manage to do is piss yourself off by keeping this dead argument up, trust me I know.

[scfire86]

And I 'm sorry if you truly believe people running for office over a veteran word about their medals. That is truly sad.

What about the veteran's who supported Kerry's story? I guess they don't count. They were there also.

You're right. The Swifty's actions were/are truly sad. They just happen to be conservatives.

[No Fear]

What about the veteran's who supported Kerry's story? I guess they don't count. They were there also.

You're right. The Swifty's actions were/are truly sad. They just happen to be conservatives.

Whatever SC whatever, I see your just another liberal from California that can't accept that the election is over and you have to find something else to bitch about W. I fully understand now, how stupid of me.

[scfire86]

Whatever SC whatever, I see your just another liberal from California that can't accept that the election is over and you have to find something else to bitch about W. I fully understand now, how stupid of me.

Where in my posts have I been bitching about anything? I keep telling you I am happy for the public service provided by the Swifties that informed me of how slanted or incorrect official military records are in relation to awards and decorations. We should all be happy they let us know how many frauds are walking amongst us.

I would think all veterans would be happy to know their achievements and bravery have now been brought into question thanks to this group.

I guess you're not. Sorry if you misunderstood me.

And why do you and the other conservatives keep bringing up Bush's election victory? Did you just find out? I certainly don't. Everyone already knows he won, I thought you knew that. I guess it takes the news a while to get out to The Edge.

[No Fear]

Its America and everyone has the right to express their opinion, if I misunderstood you, I apologize. As far as I knew about who won, I do know, and like my past post if you would have read them if Kerry would have one, So Be It. The American people have spoken if he would have won that be find with me to. As far as the edge , maybe that the best place to be. Have a great day.

[scfire86]

Its America and everyone has the right to express their opinion, if I misunderstood you, I apologize. As far as I knew about who won, I do know, and like my past post if you would have read them if Kerry would have one, So Be It. The American people have spoken if he would have won that be find with me to. As far as the edge , maybe that the best place to be. Have a great day.

I remember 1992 and 1996. Conservatives accepted it quite well without bitching or whining.

[No Fear]

maybe there hope for us after all

[mohican]

Where is Barry Goldwater when you need him?

[scfire86]

Even better. Another senator from AZ named McCain may make a run at POTUS. I'd vote for him. And I'm a Dem.

You just never know who might come from where.

[mohican]

McCain is a slightly left of center moderate posing as a republican as in RINO

You are entitled to you opinion that that would be better than a reincarnation of Goldwater, but I will reserve my right to disagree

the only things Goldwater would have had in common was that they were from AZ, and loose party affiliation.

I would like to see Frist run, or even better, Ron Paul, but Ron Paul would need to start building name recognition.

[Vollies Suck]

Newt Gingrich for President!

[mohican]

Newt Gingrich for President!

I like Newt, and he has great ideas

Unfortunately, he also has a fair amount of "baggage".

[hog]

i have been a BUSH supporter....but his views on illegal immagrants really pisses me off