remember this?

[DCFF/PM]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/ems-day1-seattle.htm

How have we progressed (or regressed) from 3 years ago?

[4Delta]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/ems-day1-seattle.htm

How have we progressed (or regressed) from 3 years ago?

Interesting article, especially the data comparing the response times for fires compared to EMS runs. I can't speak for DC in any way shape or form but I will say that from what I have seen from many of Maryland's "aggressive" fire companies [not all of course] there is little regard for EMS. If a box alarm comes out they will run like the wind to get the rig on the road, so they can beat everyone else to the scene and feel all badass, but when an EMS call comes in, even a life threatening situation, it is all calm and casual. After all, what's the rush? I guess it's only an important run when they have a chance to get their helmets all dark and crispy so they can look like the real salty dogs they are. From what I have seen I don't think these companies are out to really help people at all, but more to use somebody elses tragedy to get their adrenaline fix and then post it on their website to promote how friggin amazing they are and how nobody can compare. When was the last time one of these companies posted a call where a successful resuscitation took place? Exactly. Never. Don't get me wrong, I love fighting fire just as much as the next guy, but my job is to protect the citizens in my county in all capacities, not just from fire or entrapment.
Cooper

[RetiredFXCOFF]

Well said.

Stay safe!

[simple]

"Well said"? Give me a break! What is this a spin control class for the new fire chief? If it were I would give you an atta'boy. However it is not. I have spent time "observing" in both Maryland and DC. The truth of the matter is this... low priority and common dispatches get the same in response. Firefighters do move slow(slow being a relative term here) for the bravo man down in front of the liquor store that they went to 3 times today. The reason being that the dispatch priority is low, experience lets them believe the priority should be low, and as long as they meet their performance objective(< 1 min. to respond, wow that is slow) there is no reason to run. They are going to do this over a dozen times today(say average). Those same firefighters move at about the same pace for the AFA at the building they go to once every tour for the same reasons.

High priority calls that are not so common get a faster response. If you spend any time in the same firehouses pay attention. CPR in progress, Child not breathing, Shooting or Stabbing are all examples of times you will see firefighters move not so slow.

Consider the scale of any emergency. On a medical local we typically have 6 personnel to meet the needs of a single pt. On a typical box alarm we may have 40 personnel to deal with anything from a single family to an apartment with over 100 residents. I have not heard a medical box alarm go out yet, although they are getting pretty close, but if you hear one for 47 down I would bet firefighters would run.

While it may seem that firefighters move a lot faster to a box alarm consider this. Firefighters have a lot more to do at a box alarm. They have to put on, correctly, a full set of PPE and and SCBA. As opposed to just some latex gloves and maybe eye protection. Then they have to pull equipment from the apparatus to the call. Hose, forcible entry tools, ladders. Same with the medical locals but when was the last time the IV line was more than an inch thick or 100 feet long?

Now consider that firefighters have to put the fire out, go inside of the structure on fire. If I go to a working code odds are I am not going to be in cardiac arrest. If a go to a working fire there is a real chance I could be on fire. My point is maybe firefighters move faster on fires for their own good. How long has that fire been under that truss? If I can do something to cut down on that time for ME why not?

Maybe there is a part of firefighters that are excited about one aspect of their jobs. Who cares? Everyone likes certain aspects of there job better that others. If firefighters attack fires with extra exuberance isn't that like a reward for the city? As long as they are meeting all of their performance objectives is it bad that they are exceeding at some of them?

Finally try this one on for size. How come when DC had a single role civilian EMS force the engine or truck always led the way out of the firehouse? How come the Firefighters were always the first on scene even when coming from the same distance? Why is it the only way we can get ALS quickly to the seen, as retarded of a solution as it is, is on a fire engine. Why is it now that we put firefighters on ambulances, again retarded but, our Dpt's response times are better than ever? You know... I have seen ambulances beating suppression units to the seen recently, oh wait yep, that was a firefighter ambulance, never mind.

If firefighter/EMT's are slow to respond to EMS calls and fast on fire calls I can live with that. Because they beet the pants of EMS providers and anyone else. So lets speak they truth, firefighters are fast on EMS responses and even faster on fires.

[Tk_3_Barman]

Very well said Simple.

Kudos!

[4Delta]

"Well said"? Give me a break! What is this a spin control class for the new fire chief? If it were I would give you an atta'boy. However it is not. I have spent time "observing" in both Maryland and DC. The truth of the matter is this... low priority and common dispatches get the same in response. Firefighters do move slow(slow being a relative term here) for the bravo man down in front of the liquor store that they went to 3 times today. The reason being that the dispatch priority is low, experience lets them believe the priority should be low, and as long as they meet their performance objective(< 1 min. to respond, wow that is slow) there is no reason to run. They are going to do this over a dozen times today(say average). Those same firefighters move at about the same pace for the AFA at the building they go to once every tour for the same reasons.

High priority calls that are not so common get a faster response. If you spend any time in the same firehouses pay attention. CPR in progress, Child not breathing, Shooting or Stabbing are all examples of times you will see firefighters move not so slow. [Not Always]

Consider the scale of any emergency. On a medical local we typically have 6 personnel to meet the needs of a single pt. On a typical box alarm we may have 40 personnel to deal with anything from a single family to an apartment with over 100 residents. I have not heard a medical box alarm go out yet, although they are getting pretty close, but if you hear one for 47 down I would bet firefighters would run.

While it may seem that firefighters move a lot faster to a box alarm consider this. Firefighters have a lot more to do at a box alarm. They have to put on, correctly, a full set of PPE and and SCBA. As opposed to just some latex gloves and maybe eye protection. Then they have to pull equipment from the apparatus to the call. Hose, forcible entry tools, ladders. [Good points made] Same with the medical locals but when was the last time the IV line was more than an inch thick or 100 feet long?

Now consider that firefighters have to put the fire out, go inside of the structure on fire. If I go to a working code odds are I am not going to be in cardiac arrest. If a go to a working fire there is a real chance I could be on fire. My point is maybe firefighters move faster on fires for their own good. How long has that fire been under that truss?[How long has the civilian been not breathing or bleeding out? How do we know the chest pains person is not about to code? How do we know the difficulty breathing is not anaphylaxis?] If I can do something to cut down on that time for ME why not? [good point, but what can be done to cut down on the time for THEM as well?]

Maybe there is a part of firefighters that are excited about one aspect of their jobs. Who cares? Everyone likes certain aspects of there job better that others. [true, everyone [B]LIKES different aspects of their job but their JOB is to treat all responses with the same degree of seriousness] If firefighters attack fires with extra exuberance isn't that like a reward for the city? As long as they are meeting all of their performance objectives is it bad that they are exceeding at some of them?

Finally try this one on for size. How come when DC had a single role civilian EMS force the engine or truck always led the way out of the firehouse? [I don't know. As I mentioned I was not referring to DC. I was referring to Maryland areas that border DC, where I ran out of up until 1.5 years ago] How come the Firefighters were always the first on scene even when coming from the same distance? Why is it the only way we can get ALS quickly to the seen, as retarded of a solution as it is, is on a fire engine. Why is it now that we put firefighters on ambulances, again retarded but, our Dpt's response times are better than ever? You know... I have seen ambulances beating suppression units to the seen recently, oh wait yep, that was a firefighter ambulance, never mind. [What they are doing with making senior firefighters ride the ambo is BS - those are guys needed on the engine to help teach the junior guys the deal. I agree 100%]

If firefighter/EMT's are slow to respond to EMS calls and fast on fire calls I can live with that. [that's fine man, but the article was about just that trend in attitudes] Because they beet the pants of EMS providers and anyone else. So lets speak they truth, firefighters are fast on EMS responses and even faster on fires.

I know you guys in DC get the shit kicked out of you with bullshit runs. I don't work there, so as I said I will not comment on what goes on there cause I have no personal experience. What I will say, and say it again, is that there are more than a fair share of bottom feeders over in parts of Maryland who are not in the fire service to help people at all. They are here to get there friggin' adrenaline rush and brag about being the best at everything under the sun and treat everyone else like shit. I saw it for years. Yeah, they'll check their own protective gear before they step foot on the engine, but the medical bag may or may not have actual oxygen in the cylinder, and there may or may not be a functional bag valve mask, adult or child sized, and the AED only gets checked when..... actually they never get checked. That's my point. No friggin' oversight or accountability. EMS sometime sucks. I get it. But if you aint in the biz to help people then reconsider your choice of job [or live-in situation]. I live in DC with my family and trust you all a hell of alot more than I did the department that protected us when we were across the line. I know you all will do the right thing.
Cooper

[DCFF/PM]

I can't speak for DC in any way shape or form

Well then do us a favor and keep your non-DC thoughts to yourself. I asked a question of DC Firemen and Paramedics - not somebody who in no way shape or form can answer my question.

And Fairfax dude - thanks for the valuable addition to this conversation, it was really necessary. Now, I'm sure your screen name is a front, and your really assigned somewhere in SE, so what is your take on the current state of EMS here in DC???

[4Delta]

Well then do us a favor and keep your non-DC thoughts to yourself. I asked a question of DC Firemen and Paramedics - not somebody who in no way shape or form can answer my question.

And Fairfax dude - thanks for the valuable addition to this conversation, it was really necessary. Now, I'm sure your screen name is a front, and your really assigned somewhere in SE, so what is your take on the current state of EMS here in DC???

I wasn't aware that the questions pertaining to response times was an issue exclusive to DC. I guess I was foolish to think you might appreciate input from someone who once operated a few miles to your east AND someone whose family lives within the jurisdiction in which you are tasked to protect [i.e. taxpayer]. I'll move on and simply observe, since it is apparent that people are cramming up cyberspace in a mad dash to to answer your question.
"Well then do us a favor and keep your non-DC thoughts to yourself"
Nice. Very nice. Now go beat a kitten you salty dog you.

Cooper (DC taxpayer)

[BTWFRED]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA We get to beat kittens?!?! WTF dude.....nobody told me that shit! I CAN'T WAIT to go back to work! Bring on the alpha butt pain calls! I'll be hunting kittens! MEEEOOOOOWWWWWWW

[Tk_3_Barman]

I wasn't aware that the questions pertaining to response times was an issue exclusive to DC. I guess I was foolish to think you might appreciate input from someone who once operated a few miles to your east AND someone whose family lives within the jurisdiction in which you are tasked to protect [i.e. taxpayer]. I'll move on and simply observe, since it is apparent that people are cramming up cyberspace in a mad dash to to answer your question.
"Well then do us a favor and keep your non-DC thoughts to yourself"
Nice. Very nice. Now go beat a kitten you salty dog you.

Cooper (DC taxpayer)

I thought you had some good points

[thatguy51]

When was the last time one of these companies posted a call where a successful resuscitation took place? Exactly. Never.
Cooper

I think it would be a HIPAA violation to post info about a successful resuscitation on a departments website. I think many departments violate HIPAA when they write up trauma calls and say that "the pt (even without naming the pt) was transported to Howard University Hospital as a Priority 1 trauma".

[sbchasin]

As long as you can't personally identify the patient, you are ok

[dcfdsid]

As long as you can't personally identify the patient, you are ok


Lets take this one step further. What about the sites that show the cars with full view of the license plate. Wouldnt you be able to then figure out, from all the other information posted, who was in fact in that car?

Sid

[sbchasin]

Lets take this one step further. What about the sites that show the cars with full view of the license plate. Wouldnt you be able to then figure out, from all the other information posted, who was in fact in that car?

Sid

That one is iffy. You can determine who owns the car, but not necessarily who was the patient. Better off to blur the plate #.