Wacko Picture Thread

[Forest Gump]

Post your pictures of vollie wackos doing stupid things so we can make fun of them, er, I mean critique them and give them advice so that maybe someday they can be real fire fighters.

Sad but true.

[Forest Gump]

http://www.glue.umd.edu/~broberts/photo/AAgroup.jpg

See how these wackos just sit around while people houses are burning.

They probly even started this fire!!!

Sad but true.

[Mike Ward]

Hey one "r" -

I know you are looking to start another flame war.

Even in my CAREER recruit school we took a group shot while the acquired structure was allowed to burn down after we finished operations.

In reading your posts, I am starting to wonder if you are just an internet troll "wanna-be" with zero firefighting experience.

Maybe you were turned down at your hometown vfd, since all of your 14 posts are, to use your words, "over the top" attacks on volunteers.

Or did firehouse.com boot you off their web site?

[Ambo&PCO]

ForestGump,
In regards to your link:
Anyone who has ever donned turnout gear should know what a controlled burn is!!! Many departments document them through photography! And do you honestly think that a fire fighter (volunteer or not) would actually stand by, let along pose for a camera, while someone's property is being destoryed?!?!?!
And as far as your opinion of volunteers...it is yours, and yours to keep. Every volunteer I know is dedicated and fully willing to risk life and limb at the drop of a tone in order to answer the call for assistance. And truly dedicated people are the one's who choose fire fighting as a career and join a local volunteer department on their down time. It would not surprise me if you were one of the one's who bitch and moan everytime they area disturbed to answer a call. The fire service doesn't need people like you...but that is just my opinion.

[Bobby Boucher]

while i do enjoy folks posting photos and using them for educational and open-minded critque purposes, i would warn any of you that decide to do so at the imposter fg's request be careful.

while so far this person has not proven to know anything at all about the fire service, he/she may be interested in using it for more attention.

those of you that do wish to involve yourselves in purposeful and intelligent conversation, keep this in mind....



BB

[regs1]

welcome back BB, sorry someone beat you to your old name, we lost all data in the crash, somehow the backup was useless, so we redid the site, and rebooted from some old backups.

the good news the new FG, everyone knew it was not you, you missed out on Mr. clinger posts, you would have loved him, was your classic wacko.

[Bobby Boucher]

regs1-

i remember talking with you a few weeks ago about the space on your server and you mentioned the fact that you guys were experiencing a few problems. good to see that you got TWD back up and running. like i said, i checked on a few times, but the site was always down. to be honest, i went online yesterday at work and for no particular reason tried it again. good to see you back.

about the 'new' forest, that guy/gal is something else. or course i knew he/she was an imposter, but i did find it entertaining to see him/her attempt to write like me. even to go so far as to try to use my statements as quotes. guess he/she just couldn't stay close enough. not to mention the fact that many of the people on here know that while i am pretty hard-headed and opinionated, i would never personally attack anyone and i have stated my positions on a lot of the things he was saying too many times for him/her to get on here and just change them like that. thanks for recognizing the imposter.

i kind of feel weird now though. not being FG that is. hope you guys don't mind my new name. just remember it is the same old me. if you can that is...

take care. talk with you all soon.

any hot new controversial threads on here by chance? you know me......


BB

[Keepnitsafe]

The fake “Forest” was like watching a movie with several sequels and in the last sequel the main character changes. The storyline is the same but somehow the movie loses its appeal and is just not as good.

[Bobby Boucher]

wow, was that a compliment? i am flattered.....


BB

[Forest Gump]

Originally posted by Bobby Boucher
regs1-


about the 'new' forest, that guy/gal is something else. or course i knew he/she was an imposter, but i did find it entertaining to see him/her attempt to write like me. even to go so far as to try to use my statements as quotes. guess he/she just couldn't stay close enough. not to mention the fact that many of the people on here know that while i am pretty hard-headed and opinionated, i would never personally attack anyone and i have stated my positions on a lot of the things he was saying too many times for him/her to get on here and just change them like that. thanks for recognizing the imposter.

Good God. You have figured out that this FG thing was a joke havent you? It is all for entertainment, albeit at your expense. If you cant laugh at em, laugh with em...

If you look back I was puposly going WAY over the top with the comments, but evidently some here think you are out there enough to have actualy posted that stuff.

I wouldnt want for a minute to be like you GF/BB, you were once a wacko, a tainted bein you now are!

You, while seeing the light and denoucing all that is wacko, can never truely be free of you wacko past.

Sad But True...

OK, see what I am doing here, it is comody... Thinly disguised as your anti wacko babble.

If you people didnt take yourselves so fucking seriously, then you may even get a laugh out of it, laughing is good for you, try it sometime you tight ass.

[Vollies Suck]

Here's a link to an outstanding wacko website, with lots of goofball photos:

http://www.mvfd5.com/index.asp

[Fghtng5thFemale]

See I can let a lot of things slide...your annoying attitude....your idiot statements....and your silly belief that you are a professional because you are paid. That I can chalk up to your bruised ego (what volunteer showed you up) and overlook it as a personal flaw on your part.

But.....I think you just bit off more then you can chew my ignorant friend.

Thanks for the free advertisment though...

[AnytimeAnywhere]

Sorry to burst your bubble there "big shot" but if you think being paid makes you a Professional... you have alot to learn.

Confusious say;

We only poke fun at what we envy.

[Eddie911]

In stead of making fun of some other companies we site, how about you show us your F.D. web site. Im sure since you belong to a Paid Fire Dept. they have one.
Or do they? And do you really belong to a Fire Dept. at all?

[Bobby Boucher]

i did make mention on TWD (before the big crash of 2003) that i have seen tons of volunteer fds with photos of themselves online making mistakes. sure, there are photos of paid guys doing some things that didn't look smart either, but i am talking about the vfds with photos on their sites they believe cast them in a positive light. like the ones where they have a sequence of fire photos - 1st one has a little smoke, 2nd one has fire from an eave, and get to the end and there is nothing left but a shell and the foundation. that is classic!

i also think that the mere fact that there are so many volunteer web sites lends to my theory of them doing it only for the glory. i asked this point before, why are there only volunteer firefighters? why not volunteer cops? volunteer garbage collectors? etc? see what i am getting at?

the truth is simple - there is no glory to receive in those jobs. you actually have to do W-O-R-K. you can't just go around bragging to people that you are a garbage collector, because they believe that isn't quite as glamorous or heroic.

say what you want, but i noticed one guy's signature just above on this thread that looks like he even volunteers for more than one department! what? when does he have time to spend with his wife and children? who is more important there? his need for self-gratification and self-worth or his responisibilities to his family? pretty obvious to me. you would have to be a true wacko to think otherwise....


BB

[Fghtng5thFemale]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobby Boucher
[Bi also think that the mere fact that there are so many volunteer web sites lends to my theory of them doing it only for the glory. i asked this point before, why are there only volunteer firefighters? why not volunteer cops? volunteer garbage collectors? etc? see what i am getting at?

Actually, the website was created for the public to get an inside look at the station and what it is we do. It allows them to see all our rigs, the station, the members, and recent calls. Where did you get this idea that volunteers are all about glory and nothing else? What made you so jaded? With all that experience on numerous volunteer departments across the US that you have.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by Eddie911
In stead of making fun of some other companies we site, how about you show us your F.D. web site. Im sure since you belong to a Paid Fire Dept. they have one.
Or do they? And do you really belong to a Fire Dept. at all?

FYI, my agency indeed has a website, with all sorts of information professionals and other interested parties would find useful, such as station locations, and information we who work there need every day, such as our rules and regulations and agency policies, etc. But nowhere on there do we have posed photos of ourselves in turnout gear, and nowhere on there do we refer to ourselves as "heroes".

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by Fghtng5thFemale
Go back, look at the mvfd5 site, and then when you find anywhere on there us saying we are heroes come back and chat.

I won't hold my breath waiting cause it's gonna be a while.

Just so you won't have to hold your breath too long, this is from your home page, right under the word "volunteers":

"Wash you [sic] car and support your local heros [sic] at the same time visit our car wash at 273 Center Road, Monroeville"

It's in a little box with a red Vette. As I said in a previous post, you really need to learn to read and write English better.

[Bobby Boucher]

amy-
sorry, gal. looks like VS actually got you. i tried to warn you. leave him alone. i could tell he was too sharp for some of you. too bad he used your own vfd web site to show you.... hee hee hee

as for your question, i have only been a member of a vfd once. and that was when i was 17 years old. so i must admit that my experience within the volunteer fire service as a member is that. however, i have taught numerous (if not hundreds) of classes to volunteers. perhaps i can count that?

i am not jaded as you called me though. i do take issue with people who think that volunteers are just as good or (i know it sounds ridiculous) better than paid guys. say what you want, but you have been on TWD long enough to see them yourself. you know, they are the ones that bash me and you say nothing, but when i reply to them you try to hold me to some set of rules you have established for everyone.

as for your website, i think VS makes a good point, who are the pictures of the fires and wrecks really for? the public? you think they want to see someone's house on fire? or someone they know's car mangled against a tree? is that your idea of good PR? really?

think about it amy, you will see.


BB

[AnytimeAnywhere]

Originally posted by Bobby Boucher


say what you want, but i noticed one guy's signature just above on this thread that looks like he even volunteers for more than one department! what? when does he have time to spend with his wife and children? who is more important there? his need for self-gratification and self-worth or his responisibilities to his family? pretty obvious to me. you would have to be a true wacko to think otherwise....


BB


Not that i feel the need to justify myself to you or anyone at all but since you asked....
I'm not married and have no kids,
The first of the 2 Departments runs is in my home town with a Pop. of about 3000 and gets less than 150 runs a year
The second is about 10 miles from where I live and for the area is quite busy.
Why you may ask, Becasue i enjoy what I do just like any paid Firefighter out there.

Also there has been Volunteer firefighters just as long as there has been a Fire service.

[RunNGun51]

Originally posted by Bobby Boucher


as for your website, i think VS makes a good point, who are the pictures of the fires and wrecks really for? the public? you think they want to see someone's house on fire? or someone they know's car mangled against a tree? is that your idea of good PR? really?

BB

Ok, so why do people watch the news? The regular, everyday, 6 o'clock news. Topics of this nature always seem to be media worthy, attracting reporters with vans and cameras at every incident, like a moth to the flame. Why do they capture these things and then broadcast them over the air everyday on a little segment that usually runs for a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening? Now Im not neccesarily saying that people are watching these things for the shear malicious pleasure of seeing someone elses life go up in flames, but I am saying it is informative. People dont watch the news and shy away when they have a blurb about a 3 alarm fire and a video clip to show a little of what was going on. Its called curiosity. You can say we do it for the glory all you want. People ARE curious about what we do. Citizens of OUR municipality DO check out our website to see what we are up to. No matter how I try to argue my "informative" point of view on the matter, you will never see things my way; our past has proven that. I dont expect you to concede on this, I think we all get the routine: ...Volunteer rebuttle, FG/BB (and of course VS two cents) 'I'm right, You are a wacko' 'sad but true' 'Im paid, you are a wacko'. :rolleyes:

I know it must burn your ass that my department is in a LARGE, SUBURBAN AREA. It is exactly what gets a rise out of you. A volunteer fire department that isnt in a rural area and has a pretty significant call volume. Oh, and yes, dont forget, my town is also VERY AFFLUENT! By your argument, they should have the money to support a paid system, and they could. But they don't. They don't have any misconceptions about what we do. We are effecient. We are successful. No one, citizen or politician, is having the wool pulled over their eyes here. I know you have a hard time swallowing a pill of this nature, but thats just too bad. We aren't going anywhere.

Go ahead paid professionals (BB/VS), fire away. Say whatever it is you have to say to once again validate your purpose in life, your self-proclaimed superiority over the volunteers. I might even go out on a limb here and say that you wont look at any of the points I have made, and just write them off as the ramblings of a wacko, cut me and my station down, and then feel better about yourself at the end of the day. Whatever it takes.

[Fghtng5thFemale]

That "support your local heroes" at the top of our website was used in a general nature as it is many times concerning any public safety employees/volunteers. No where in any of our narratives do we state ourselves as being heroes. Thanks for the English lesson, but it's quite unnecessary. On the other hand VS, I'd check over your previous posts before commenting on other people's ability to write cause your grammer leaves a lot to be desired.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard, might leave a mark.

[SouthsideLadderMan]

Look, just admit that he got you. I looked at your site and it says exactly that.

Since you guys own the Car Wash, what other "heroes" would washing your car there support?

Monroeville #5 Calls, directly from the MVFD Website.

Call Stats
Month Fire EMS
JAN 63 87
FEB 39 80
MAR 45 69
APR 34 78
MAY 55 54
JUN 42 63
JUL 82 75
AUG 49 58
SEP 63 41
OCT 59 61
NOV
DEC
TTL 541 666

2002 571 687

Hardly what I would call busy. Considering The Department I am affiliated with probably topped this by the time March came around. And we are in a LARGE SUBURBAN AREA THAT IS NOT AFFLUENT. Stop bragging, it does no one any good and doesn't do a thing for your cause. Who cares how busy you are. When you sit here and scream about how Jealous people are of you and all that nonsense, you justify them calling you a "Wacko."

I could always ask, Why the 135' Ladder Truck, from what I have seen on the MVFD site and the Monroeville government site, there is no high rises there? Excesses???? I hate to side with these 2 assholes, but you shot yourself in the foot with all the Big Man talk.

[Fghtng5thFemale]

Then look again buddy cause we do have highrises. Ever heard of the Jonnet building? The Radison Hotel? Ringing any bells? Those are just two examples.
When was I bragging? I apparently missed that part. My point was that dispute what BB and VS think, we don't walk around acting like we are heroes. We do what needs done in a professional manner and go home. Enough said. It just irks BB that we are a 100% volunteer company that exists in an area where they could afford to pay us but have realised what he hasn't. That isn't necessary due to the fact that we provide the same professional and quality service that other areas pay for. It's like he feels its a threat to his job, not that I see how that could be since he is from the South and from what he has said about those volunteer departments they barely get out for calls. His opinions are based solely off the Southern Volunteer Departments that he has seen or the volunteers (mostly from down there I'm sure) that he has taught. He has the hold one bad apple against the whole apple tree attitude and he has ticked off a lot of people because of it. Vollies Suck just evolved from who knows where with this piss poor attitude towards volunteers in general. Once again, on a site that is probably at least 60% volunteers if not more, hasn't made many friends. Then after making his appearance with that attitude has the nerve to get mad when people snap back at him. I mean come on, what did he really expect people to say with a screen name and quote at the bottom of his posts like that? People react to what offends them and both of these two did a great job offending people and continue to ruffle as many feathers as possible to play their game. Somewhere along the way these two crossed paths and became the Beavis and Butthead of TWD. They are just setting people up to look like fools so they have more fuel for the fire and they will never quit because they always have to have the last word. The people that they respond to more are obviously the people they feel more threatened by. All that crap about how being paid makes them the big time and total professionals and yet they lower themselves to every level they come across and retort with the same trash talk, regardless of how it's worded. VS had to attack my appearance without even knowing me because he has nothing else to say to me and figured an old female firefigfhter stereotype would get a rise out of me.
VS was right, the website does say heroes about the car wash donations, but so what? That doesn't mean we are bragging or acting like a wannabe bunch of macho hero stereotypes. We know what we are and what we can do. I certainly don't need the opinions of two arrogant bias paid firefighters with too much free time on their hands to validate my abilities. If you or anyone else don't believe it or like it then tough shit. Cause I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Be safe everyone.
I'm out.

[OpencabALF]

I could care less what a bunch of nameless assholes think. I have been in the volunteer fire service for over 20 years. And never in that time did I meet a paid man that talked shit on volunteers. We were bordered by a couple of paid departments and the mutual aid went both ways. In fact I , myself, was a "paid man" for 8 years for a combination department outside Pittsburgh.

So you can talk all the shit you want, and guess what? We all die the same. Doesn't matter if you get a paycheck or not.

[RunNGun51]

Listen, If you want to start shit with me, go right on ahead my blind friend. The fact is, the informamtion i stated in my post directed toward BB/VS (aka NOT YOU ASSHOLE) was stating the situation of my municipality, the very type that gets him upset. In no way was it used to be a bragging right. My town or my departments economical status in no way makes me who I am or tells me what kind of firefighter i am. Now, on the buisness of the 135' truck. No high rises in Monroeville? Ok, I'll assume that your stupid ass has never been through my town, and all you know of my town is from our web site. Very well. Just because you didnt see any high rise incidents on the web site at the current moment doesnt mean the buildings dont exsist. The site shows incidents we worked, ITS NOT A FUCKING DIRECTORY TO EVERY BUILDING IN OUR TOWN ASSHOLE! Get a clue, get an education, hell, get in a car, drive up to the east side of Pittsburgh where my town resides, and drive down Rt22 and I guarantee that youll be taking off your shoes looking for digits to count for the high rises you'll pass in a minutes time. I don't think a 135' is excess for our town, it wont reach the top of some of the high rises in this town. I really don't think you have any understanding of our operations, I suggest you come on up to the station before you continue running your little mouth about excess. You are just like every other namesless coward on this site, hiding behind your screen name.

[SouthsideLadderMan]

Blah Blah Blah Blah.


Thats all I see when either one of them or you post. Nothing but noise of people with too much time on their hands.


I could sit here and pick apart your post to the point where we could prove that your department is no different from the ones you criticize in the South, but why? I could use that time to go help cure Famine in Appalachia or something.

So there are high rises in Monroeville, way to go. I explained that "From what I see on the MVFD site and the Monroeville Government site, there are no high-rises." So choke on that one please.

There are huge differences between Career Firefighters and Volunteer Firefighters. I am as "Pro-Volunteer" as they come and even I am not too blind to see that fact.

That isn't necessary due to the fact that we provide the same professional and quality service that other areas pay for.

This is the problem, we can't. Who handles the following functions in the Twp. of Monroeville:

Building Inspections
Pre-plans
Daycare Inspections
Fire Investigations
Fire Code Violations
Pump Testing for Standpipe Buildings
Life Safety surveys for MFD's (Multi-Family Dwellings)
Apparatus Maintenance

If you can say that the MVFD provides all of those services than yes, you might be doing the same for less. But if you gotta use the State Fire Marshal for this and the Local Ordinance guy for that, than you are not providing the full scope of the service so you cannot say you are doing exactly what a professional department does for free. Yes, you can act "professional" on calls and while in the eyes of the public. However, lets say Billy Bob the daytime driver has an Emergency and has to leave, all the other drivers are at work or unavailable, what happens? In a career department, they detail someone else in. Usually in a VFD, they just Fail to respond.

Even down here in PG, we realize that not all services can be handled by the VFD's. The PGFD handles all of those above mentioned functions with dedicated career firefighters or civilian personnel. Volunteers basically run calls. We might do our own pre-plans and maps but thats about it. We don't do inspections, investigations or any of that. Get with the times, the trends of 100% Volunteer Departments in Urban areas is falling down. Deal with it.

[SouthsideLadderMan]

Oh, I wish I would have seen that before I posted my last one.

You want my name Big Guy? It's Chris, I am outspoken and have a long history on here. I am a member of the Clinton Vol. Fire Department in P.G. County Maryland. People who know me on here don't need me to spell my fuckin name out for people of your caliber,who make yourself look more uneducated every time you post. No, my "stupid ass" (baseless comment BTW) has never been to Monroeville or North of Chambersburg for that matter. Your site and the city site have no examples of building construction on them, so one can usually assume it is residential or commercial. I don't care about your operations, I am sure they are no different than certain companies down here that are busier and have high-rises.

How long have you been in the Department???? Lets see.....1999? (According to the Website) and the other Mouthpiece of your Department has been in since 2001. Thats a grand total of 6 years between both of you. Wow, I am impressed. When you get 7 more between the 2 of you, come talk to me.

Sorry you find me offensive, but I don't care. Actually, I will be passing through your town this Friday on my way to Niagra Falls, maybe I will stop by. I will see if I can fit it in my itinerary.

Chris W. <~~~No Hiding, Fuck Face.

[SouthsideLadderMan]

Yes Mr. Ward, it's me.

I will still trash the union (not the firefighters, the organization itself) but I am still enough of a realist to know when the ship is sinking and major changes are needed (ie: Bill 36-03)


See Musky Boy, people know who I am without me having to spell it out.

BTW, Nice Roto-Ray, you should put some green in it:D

[Mike Ward]

Cool!
[I took down an earlier post to send it as a private message.]

I want to use part of your "Blah Blah Blah" post . .. the second half, to use as an example of the difference between the duties and activites of career and volunteer firefighters.

You did a good job describing it.

Mike

If I could find a white-green-red rotoray avatar I would use it!

[SouthsideLadderMan]

Mr. Ward, you are free to use any part of my posts, I guess I was using the example here in P.G. I don't know how other jurisdictions do it.

[Keepnitsafe]

and both of these two did a great job offending people and continue to ruffle as many feathers as possible to play their game.
If you figured it out that it is a game then why do you keep playing? Jesus H Fricken Christ, now not only do they have the vol’s in an uproar about their postings, they now have the vol’s going at each other. This they probably didn’t plan on but I bet they are probably rolling on the floor laughing their asses off with the last few posts. Hell, “WACKO” maybe what they are saying isn’t so fricken bizarre after all.

Just keeps getting better and better!

[NightWatcher]

Babe, why the hell are you wasting time on these assholes?
That isn't like you. You never used to pay any attention to idiots before. Going soft on me are we?
God it's been a while.
PM me babe. Screw all them. The world is full of opinions with big mouths. They ain't shit.

[emtfiresnot4me]

how bout jumping off of your high horses and taking a look a round...... all of ur big shot apperatus and your big shot attitudes aren't going to save ur asses when talking shit isn't putting out fires and real skills going to have to be used!!! and with all the bickering and shit stirring between departments don't count any one else either!!!

[Fghtng5thFemale]

You nutcase. LMAO What's up?
How are things on your end of the country?

It has been a while. Years actually.
You never call, you never write.....
I could be married with kids by now for all you know.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by Fghtng5thFemale
My point was that dispute what BB and VS think, we don't walk around acting like we are heroes.... Vollies Suck just evolved from who knows where with this piss poor attitude towards volunteers in general...Once again, on a site that is probably at least 60% volunteers if not more, hasn't made many friends. Then after making his appearance with that attitude has the nerve to get mad when people snap back at him. I mean come on, what did he really expect people to say with a screen name and quote at the bottom of his posts like that? People react to what offends them and both of these two did a great job offending people and continue to ruffle as many feathers as possible to play their game....They are just setting people up to look like fools so they have more fuel for the fire and they will never quit because they always have to have the last word. The people that they respond to more are obviously the people they feel more threatened by.

You really don't get it, do you? You don't walk around acting like heroes? No, you just refer to yourselves that way on your own website, and talk that way on a fire service oriented message board, where real firefighters, who do this job every day, who save lives and risk their lives on a regular basis, can read about how wonderful you volunteers are and how superior you are because you don't get paid.

Do you want to talk about bad attitudes? Let's see, according to your profile you are 23 years old, and if you are indeed the Amy that is a member of Monroeville VFD, you have been a member there for a whole 2 years. You ride in a slow volunteer fire company that serves what you yourself describe as an affluent area...yet you know all about the fire service, and you know all about why volunteers are so great compared to career firefighters, and you are well-qualifed to psychoanalyze me and Bobby Boucher and anybody else who doesn't see you as the heroes you think you are.

Do you know how silly you look to those of us who have been doing this job for a while? Let me try to give you a clue to my perspective: I am a career firefighter in a very large city in the United States. I have been a career firefighter since you were in diapers. In the ghetto where I work, my engine -- one single engine -- gets more than twice the number of runs in a month that your entire department gets. For example, you had 120 total calls in October for your department; my engine responded to 297 calls that same month. The truck in my house got only a few less than that. Structure fires are a common, almost daily occurrence where I work. How many structure fires do you get in Monroeville? And how many have you fought in your two year "career" as a "professional" volunteer? And YOU are gonna tell ME what the fire service is all about??? Even when I was a young man, and really thought I was hot shit, I was nowhere near as arrogant as you. When I had just 2 years service, I damned sure didn't think I was qualified to debate anything about firefighting with anybody smarter than a cocker spaniel, and even now I hardly think I "know it all", unlike you.

It is precisely people like you who gave me my bad attitude about vollies. As I have said so many times, you strut around with your tee-shirts and your bumper stickers and your training certificates and your special license plates, trying to fool people into thinking you are real firefighters, when in fact it is your hobby, not your career or profession.

You claim that you do this because you love to serve the public, when in fact you do it because it is exciting and enhances your ego and public persona. (And I am being charitable there; many vollies really are sick puppies who get their rocks off watching and setting fires. Many others are socially-retarded misfits who have a desperate need to seem important and heroic. Many of them couldn't qualify to be paid men in the loosest career department you can think of, because they would be unable to pass all of the requirements -- written test, polygraph, background investigation, physical, drug test -- that paid men need to pass in order just to begin their training.)

You claim to be just the same as paid men, when in fact you do not do what we do, and you do not run your VFDs like any career department is run. You do not follow the same rules or principles for hiring, disciplining, supervising, or promoting employees that we do. (Can anybody imagine a 16 or 17 year old career firefighter??? Can anybody imagine electing company officers in a paid department???) Many VFDs do not follow the same manning standards and response standards that career departments follow. That's why we object so strongly to your stupid, phony, bullshit claim that the only difference between us is a paycheck. You might be able to fool some non-FD folks with that nonsense, but anybody who has spent any real time in the fire service knows better.

BTW, on what basis do you think I "got mad" when you "snapped back" at me? What are you smoking? I don't give a fat rat's ass what you or some other rookie vollie thinks of me and my opinions. I like to speak my mind, and the Watchdesk gives me the opportunity to do that. I couldn't care less if somebody, especially someone who is not my peer, gets pissed or upset. You are not qualified to touch my turnout coat, let alone speak to me with any authority about what the fire service is like, and you certainly don't threaten me. (I love it: "Oh, I'm so frightened...Amy the super-vollie is pissed at me!!!) Get real, you goof.

You are right about one thing you wrote, though. I do love to provoke you vollie chowderheads, and you all are so, so easy. All I have to do is dare to suggest that you are not the heroes you all think you are, and you fill a whole page with semi-literate tirades and name-calling. Keep it up...it really makes me laugh.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by Fghtng5thFemale
I could be married with kids by now for all you know.

Not bloody likely, unless you kidnapped some poor blind man and force-fed Viagra to him.

[towaladda124]

Hey man I agree with you 110%! The fire service is alot of work and there is no room in it for slackers, freeloaders, and yardbirds. But hey man I was once on both sides of the fire department fence, and I gotta say that the reason my old tick house started up its web site was to hopefully atract some volunteers! Not search for some glory, and thanks. I enjoyed helping my community and protecting my neighbors, friends and family, who for many years watched over me. And belive me we were just as professional as the career firefighters we rode the apparatus with. Remember professionalism is a state of mind or attitude, not a pay status. And I know there are retards on both sides of the fence so lets avoid bashing on each other. This shit just really gets old.

[AnytimeAnywhere]

Originally posted by CW25Truck11



This is the problem, we can't. Who handles the following functions in the Twp. of Monroeville:

Building Inspections
Pre-plans
Daycare Inspections
Fire Investigations
Fire Code Violations
Pump Testing for Standpipe Buildings
Life Safety surveys for MFD's (Multi-Family Dwellings)
Apparatus Maintenance




In the Order yuou listed them:

Municiple Code enforcement
The Departmetns
Municiple Code enforcement
County Arson Investigators/ Chiefs of the Department
Departments Report Them, Code Enforcement Takes it from there
Up to the Building Owner
To the best of my knowledge, theese are not done.
The Municiple Garage

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by AnytimeAnywhere
In the Order yuou listed them:

Municiple Code enforcement
The Departmetns
Municiple Code enforcement
County Arson Investigators/ Chiefs of the Department
Departments Report Them, Code Enforcement Takes it from there
Up to the Building Owner
To the best of my knowledge, theese are not done.
The Municiple Garage

Thanks for the information. This proves two key points critics of volunteer fire companies make, namely that you do not "do everything paid firefighters do" and that the money you save taxpayers is offset to at least some extent by delegating a number of key fire department functions to other government agencies or employees.

I appreciate your candor.

[Medic63]

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
Not bloody likely, unless you kidnapped some poor blind man and force-fed Viagra to him.

Until you've met someone in person, you should not criticize their appearance. This post makes it appear that you have nothing worthwhile to say, and have to resort to unfounded personal attacks.

Oh, wait!
That's every post you make! What was I thinking?

Besides, do you really think she gives a damn what you think about her appearance?

[Fghtng5thFemale]

Not likely. LOL
And that probably burns his ass.

[NightWatcher]

Didn't you get enough hugs from your parents as a child or what?
Cause man are you an asshole.

10 of you still wouldn't be worth Amy.

You obviously have some sexual frustration, go beat off and get it over with.

Big mouth=Little dick
Big mouth=Little dick
Life sucks huh?

[Fghtng5thFemale]

I appreciate your help, but forget about him. He isn't worth it and I certainly don't care what he thinks of me. He is a screen name on the watchdesk. Only words typed on a screen. In other words, nothing.
Watch how fast I care.......**yawns**

Anyways, back to more important things.
I'll pm you so we can bullshit in private.

[NightWatcher]

I'll be honest here. I really don't understand why you vollunteer to help strangers... risking your health and looks. You could get hurt or pick up some crazy disease. Do you want to end up with scars?
Maybe you are right, maybe I never did "get" you....but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit here and watch some jerk cut you down because of it. Sorry if I pissed you off, but you know how I feel.

[regs1]

This is the third or fourth or more that people debate who better paid or volunteer. In reality it’s kind of a stupid debate. A paid departments will provide more services, and have better trained firefighter than volunteer. This is why a community has a paid department, and not a volunteer department.
Fghtng5thFemale, and others will give the argument that the also have the same training. Yes you do, but you only have half of what a paid firefighter will have. By nature, paid department exist because volunteers could not handle the call load, The paid departments run more, have more fires, have more EMS calls that volunteers. This amounts to the second part of the training item, experience. Paid firefighters will experience more fire, EMS calls than volunteers.
Ok, some will again bring up Kentland Engine 33, what the number do not show in amount of members that each company has. Kentland has over 50 members, the average paid company will gave 15 to 20, DCFD - Eng 10 has 20 people assigned to it. They have a maning level of four people. The question how much experience does each volunteer receive?
Yes there are exceptions, some volunteer do nothing more that hang out at the firehouse playing firemen, I will say these guys have no life, not going anywhere in life, My next question is what type of job does this person have, and what is his advancement possibilities at this job. There is more to life than being at a volunteer firehouse 12 to 16 hours each day. Personally I rather go home and sleep with a female than be in a bunkroom full of guys.

Vollies Suck; if you stop bashing them on the head like BB has, they might just listen to what you have to say. You make some good points, however you turn off people by insulting them. The point I brought up about what is the difference between a paid department and volunteer department is a good example. While only a couple had the courage to respond, this gives me the thought that many volunteers do not know what a paid firefighter really does. Question to these volunteers, how many fire inspections have you done in you life, how many times have you gone to the local schools to check on locked doors. Even better yet, how many times you waited for hours on a bomb scare for something to happen. To the volunteers, there is more to firefighting than getting on the apparatus, going to a fire, and putting the wet stuff on the red stuff.

Fghtng5thFemale. You once said that you rode the officer seat once in a while, with two years experience, and a lot of book knowledge, you really do not belong there. Do not get insulted, but if you have you ride the seat because no one else can, well this shows a major problem in your department.
Like it or not, one day you go out with you crew, perhaps to go get dinner, on the road you will receive the call for a reported house fire with people trapped. You will need all the experience you have on this call because the back step by nature will have less experience and training than you, and you will have to call all the shots, and hopefully, that truss floor has not weaken to point that you have crewperson fall through, that everyone knows how to work in teams, and not go off in different directions in searching the house. You will get the water you need, and the support from other responding units. And in all this will be able to tell where is crew member is and what he is doing.


To anyone else who cares, volunteer department will exist and always will exist. There are areas where this has, and will be the only fire protection that the community will have. I stated this many times in the past, the local community will always determine what type fire department a community will have. When a fire department becomes a part paid/volunteer system, then it might be time for the department to starting looking and/or use the resources to become a fully paid department. At this level the volunteer cannot provide the level of service that the local community demands.

[Eddie911]

The Ignore list works wonderful people. Try it. Does the board wonders :)

[itsnotoveryet]

i agree with alot of what ur saying, regs 1. the vollie vs paid debate is about as productive as 'tastes grate or less filling'. i think what people fail to realize is that it is the same as any fulltime vs partime comparision in careers. it is simply a matter of total experience and training, and of course intelligence. a veteran paid force should be better trained than an average vollie force. and im sure there are veteran vollie forces out there that are better than some paid depts. on the one on one, a veteran vollie should be able to run circles around a new paid guy. and a new paid guy should be able to run circles around a new vollie. and so on. where things get screwed up is when some people think they or their depts are better just because they are collecting a paycheck. you dont really ever see vollies saying they are better than paid, they are generally replying to krap from paid people, and saying that can do just as good of a job. and that is generally true, since most f/f and depts in america are 100% volunteer.
cant we all just get along??

[Keepnitsafe]

Why don’t you people get off this horse about someone not having a life if they spend so much time hanging at a fire station? Just because someone spends a lot of time at a fire station doesn’t mean they have no life. Granted, there are some, that hanging out at a fire station is their life, but so what, it is their choice, why does it bother you so fu*king much? Maybe all this time they are spending hanging out at the fire station is making them a better firefighter.

I know a lot of people, college people, single people and married people that spend a lot of time at the fire station and still have plenty of time to take care of other business and have a life outside of the fire station. I personally don’t know anyone that spends 12…16 hours each day at the fire station, but if they do SO WHAT! Who are you to judge a person’s life and their life choices?

I agree that the debate between who is better, paid or volunteer is stupid. I also agree that the paid department will provide more services. Things like Building inspections, checking local schools are generally done during the daytime hours, hence the need to hire paid personnel in the first place. Does this mean that the volunteers shouldn’t get out into the neighborhood during the evenings and do some of these things, no it doesn’t, they should and some do!

I disagree that paid departments will always provide better-trained firefighters than volunteer departments, it’s just not the case. And I’m sure we can argue this one back and forth until the end of time.

I also disagree that once a department becomes a combination paid/volunteer system they must become fully paid, that’s just ridiculous! An efficiently ran combination department where everyone knows their roles and places can provide the level of fire/ems protection the tax paying citizen demands and deserves.

I will assume that coming from an all paid department is where “The paid departments run more, have more fires” and “Paid firefighters will experience more fire” is coming from. I beg to differ with you, the majority of working incidences occur more during the evening, night and weekend time frames, which puts them during the time that the majority of fire/ems coverage is being provided by the volunteers. When I remember where I read them or can find these statistics again I will provide them for you. Do I think this makes the volunteers better than the paid guy, no!

Screw this I’m better than you bs, both sides have certain qualities and abilities to add to the overall success of the department. Getting both sides to get rid of the attitudes and egos and work together at providing the services we are ALL here to provide will be the only way to get the job done.

[careerfemff]

VS
You have made many valid points. Thank you for speaking the truth! THERE IS A DIFFERENCE! I am shocked at the arrogance or should I say ignorance of the so called "professional" on here. I have been career for over 12 years. I know I don't, nor never will "know it all". Its sad when your ego is 500 times the size as your competency level. Sadder still is because they think they are so wonderful, they present a danger, not only to themselves, but the people they "protect and serve"

PS love your quote, it says it all;)

[itsnotoveryet]

Originally posted by careerfemff
VS
You have made many valid points. Thank you for speaking the truth! THERE IS A DIFFERENCE! I am shocked at the arrogance or should I say ignorance of the so called "professional" on here. I have been career for over 12 years. I know I don't, nor never will "know it all". Its sad when your ego is 500 times the size as your competency level. Sadder still is because they think they are so wonderful, they present a danger, not only to themselves, but the people they "protect and serve"

PS love your quote, it says it all;)

careerfemff, welcome to being part of the problem, and not the solution. but we do agree that vs quote says it all, about his attitude. people like you 2 are a disgrace to the fire service. it's a shame ur so afraid of vollies showing u up.

[Keepnitsafe]

Ever wonder why these morons…oops…I mean professional paid people are here on the watchdesk running their yaps…probably because no one pays them no mind in the stations. So why the hell is anyone on here paying them any attention? They are spouting off their opinions, does an opinion from an anonymous person really mean that much to you?

Quite frankly, some of the things they say aren’t that wrong. It’s just their attitude that sucks. Also, everything they say can be used on their own people, so what! Every organization has their loads, screw-ups and malcontents.

Take these posts for what they are worth, nothing more than the Sunday comics, and sometimes better. Read them, get your laughs and move on.

Paid fire protection: ain’t worth what you pay for it.

[Colonel Jessup]

I guess this is the best you can do, and just like on the fireground, it is lacking substance.
I can do plumbing, but I would not call myself a plumber. I can run electric, but don't call myself an electrician. Why is it that you goofs try so hard to convince people that you are real firefighters when you are not. You are no more than people masquerading as firefighters. Billy Joel has a song which you wackos should adopt as a theme song, "Standing Outside The Fire."
I don't know of any jurisdiction where a Wacko Chief or Captain has any authority over a career man, with this in mind consider this. I remember Colonel Jessup saying this " There is nothing better gentlemen and I mean this, then getting a blow job by somebody that out ranks you. Of course in my case with me being a Colonel, I guess I will have to keep taking cold showers until they elect a woman president." Well, I guess Vollies Suck and myself will have to keep taking cold showers until one of you Wacko Females would get in a career dept. and advance to a very high ranking position.
You Wackos need to remember one other thing. The fire prevention slogan "Get Out and Stay Out" was meant for the occupants, not the firefighters that come to the scene. I know maybe when you grow a set of balls, maybe, just maybe, you will go to the front door.

You Want The Truth! You Can't Handle The Truth! You Wackos Have Weakened A County Today.

[Keepnitsafe]

The chain is as strong as it's weakest link, and with people like you in the chain it just falls apart. Keep believing in your superiority, as Clint would say, You’re a legend in your own mind!!!

[Fghtng5thFemale]

LMAO

[Fghtng5thFemale]

While I appreciate your honesty....I can't help but find some irony in your need to defend me. You know what I mean.

This is not the place to discuss ancient history.

You are not a firefighter, in fact you are not involved in public safety of any nature so you don't belong on the watchdesk.
Our discussions may be heated, but they revolve around firefightering. If you want to talk you know my e-mail address, obviously. Contact me there.

[burning85]

fighting fifth...i cant help but to notice a lot of ur past posts and some of ur newest ones...i really dont think u should be the one telling others they do not belong on watch desk. u may live at a fire station and call urself a fire fighter but by all means dont try to be something that u are not. of any thing that i have read of urs all i see fire or ems related is u recycling poems people have heard hundreds of times or fighting with others for their veiws on things that obviously u think u know but really dont. i have never seen u talk about anything that has to do with ur fire company, politics in the company, apperatus, or anything others on this watch desk talk about. having read replys to critisisms that people have made about u ..i'll cut u off at the pass... the first thing u will probably try to do is make up some wanna be profound bullshit about my screen name saying fires not for me...but ill let u in on a little secret i was a member at a firecompany for more then 3 years and being a female in a male prominent place is always a little tough, but trying to act like u know everything doesnt help ur status so my advice to u would be...give it a break!!!
Sincerly,
a fellow public safety officer

[Fghtng5thFemale]

Look, I don't know who you are and it really doesn't matter to me. If EMS is your thing and fire isn't, more power to you. I don't care. I never said it had to be for everyone. I love EMS myself.
I don't claim to know everything and if I sound that way it's not intentional.
I'm sure you are a nice person and that your intentions are good, but....mind your own busniess. You don't know anything about me, him, or the whole story. He is only on here to talk to me and I certainly don't need my personal history put on a public forum. I'm sure you'd feel the sameway if it was you.
If you have problems with this issue, pm me.

[Colonel Jessup]

I must say Firesnotforme that you are wise in your advice to the 5thfemale. Like many of the other career firefighters on this site, it is just pathetic to see someone with so little experience trying to compare themselves with people who work everyday in this field. I understand some of my posts may have offended many people like you who realize there is a differance between Career and Volunteer Firefighters, to you I apologize. To the others that really believe that you are equal, can you say the word WACKO!




You want the truth? You can"t handle the truth! I would rather you just say thank you, and be on your way!

[Fghtng5thFemale]

I never once claimed to be better than you or ever put down paid firefighters. I have nothing against them. I just think your attitude towards volunteers sucks.
You just lump everyone into one big group of whackers and assume thats all we are. Just like the female firefighter stereotype that we are all whores. There are volunteers who do it for the right reasons. It may not pay the bills, but can make some people a better person. I have always enjoyed helping people and being volunteer firefighter/emt is the way I chose to do so. I sacrificed a lot because of it and I've busted my ass for over two years proving that I'm not just there to sleep around like some of their previous female members. So needless to say, I don't take kindly to people like BB, VS, or you who assume we are all whackers with huge bluelights and tons of bumper stickers on our car. I'm proud to say I've never owned a blue light in my life, I don't decorate my car with stickers, and I train as much as I can to make myself a better firefighter/emt.
You want to come to Monroeville, be my guest. Maybe then you will have a chance to see that professional volunteer fire departments do exist.

[Mags]

Hey Jessup.... W-A-C-K-O! Yes we can all spell you friggin moron, and what was all the talk about jockstraps from you? You funny or something? Please go waste your time somewhere else, the bottom of the river or better yet, there's this stuff called bleach, can you say bleach Jessup? Go and drink some of that. And as for us vollies "not making it to the door" come and hang with some of the depts. that some of us are from, and we'llsee how long you can hang.
Oh but I get it you couldn't leave your job as village idiot at retard career fd.
I'm not saying paid guys are bad at all, I have much respect for them, but you make all of them look bad.

[regs1]

Keepnitsafe:

“Just because someone spends a lot of time at a fire station doesn’t mean they have no life”

If a person works on average 8 to 9 hours at a job, then volunteers at a fire house 12 hours, ok that become 20 hours a day that he might be awake.
One – how effective is he at his real job?

“Granted, there are some, that hanging out at a fire station is their life, but so what, it is their choice, why does it bother you so fu*king much? Maybe all this time they are spending hanging out at the fire station is making them a better firefighter.”

2- it bothers me because this person might be a car mechanic, or doing some type of safety type work, if this person makes a mistake because of lack of sleep or stress, that will affect all of us.
3- look at the flip side, he responding with the fire truck at a high level of stress, lack of sleep, mistake will happen there, who pays for that?

I also know a lot of volunteers, and yes I know the few who spend 12+ hours per day, why are they there for so much time, the reasons are too many to list, some just need someplace to be, other its an escape, etc. However, if you look at the some of the background of the volunteers who were arrested for doing dumb things like starting fires, there is a correlation between the two. Does this mean everyone who shows this pattern will be involved in some dumb criminal activity – absolutely no, but the relationship is there.

You also misunderstand what I said, when a volunteer system starts to use paid firefighters to supplement their system, the volunteers system is starting to fail for any number of reasons. The use of paid members will increase, the resources should be restructured to pay for these members, and for a fully paid department. The volunteer system in this type of department is failing. And before you call me any names, if it was not failing, why do you need paid members to replace the volunteers?

In other areas of the country volunteers do a great and necessary job, as far as the debate of paid vs. volunteer, still a stupid discussion topic. Each department does a job for its own community, and the local government has already determined at what level fire protection will be. Being in the fire service for a long time, I seen a lot of volunteer departments become fully paid, and/or part paid, and one fully paid department become volunteer, and a couple of part paid/volunteer become fully volunteer. In all of these cases it always came down to a question of money, not if a paid firefighter was better or worse than a volunteer, or volunteer system was better than a paid system.

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by regs1
Keepnitsafe:

“Just because someone spends a lot of time at a fire station doesn’t mean they have no life”

If a person works on average 8 to 9 hours at a job, then volunteers at a fire house 12 hours, ok that become 20 hours a day that he might be awake.
One – how effective is he at his real job?

“Granted, there are some, that hanging out at a fire station is their life, but so what, it is their choice, why does it bother you so fu*king much? Maybe all this time they are spending hanging out at the fire station is making them a better firefighter.”

2- it bothers me because this person might be a car mechanic, or doing some type of safety type work, if this person makes a mistake because of lack of sleep or stress, that will affect all of us.
3- look at the flip side, he responding with the fire truck at a high level of stress, lack of sleep, mistake will happen there, who pays for that?

I also know a lot of volunteers, and yes I know the few who spend 12+ hours per day, why are they there for so much time, the reasons are too many to list, some just need someplace to be, other its an escape, etc. However, if you look at the some of the background of the volunteers who were arrested for doing dumb things like starting fires, there is a correlation between the two. Does this mean everyone who shows this pattern will be involved in some dumb criminal activity – absolutely no, but the relationship is there.

You also misunderstand what I said, when a volunteer system starts to use paid firefighters to supplement their system, the volunteers system is starting to fail for any number of reasons. The use of paid members will increase, the resources should be restructured to pay for these members, and for a fully paid department. The volunteer system in this type of department is failing. And before you call me any names, if it was not failing, why do you need paid members to replace the volunteers?

In other areas of the country volunteers do a great and necessary job, as far as the debate of paid vs. volunteer, still a stupid discussion topic. Each department does a job for its own community, and the local government has already determined at what level fire protection will be. Being in the fire service for a long time, I seen a lot of volunteer departments become fully paid, and/or part paid, and one fully paid department become volunteer, and a couple of part paid/volunteer become fully volunteer. In all of these cases it always came down to a question of money, not if a paid firefighter was better or worse than a volunteer, or volunteer system was better than a paid system. You are very wise, regs1. I strongly suspect that BB, VS, Col. Jessup and others live in jurisdictions where the populace is indeed being failed by the volunteer system.

I can think of at least one large, suburban, and all-volunteer county north of here where the independent fiefdoms that masquerade as fire departments have vested personal power and financial interests in maintaining the status-quo, service to the citizens be damned. Scratching medical calls and going to 3rd, 4th or more due ambos is commonplace. Exterior fire attacks are the norm there, where the engine responds with a 70 year old driver and 1 or 2 probies without white tags.

Not everywhere is this true, but when your taxpayers begin to suffer from a failing entity, how long do you defend an all volunteer department that doesn't and can't meet it's jurisdiction's demand for service? I'll bet that VS, BB, and Jessup have borne witness to 30-40 minute medic response times and neighbor's homes burning to the ground while pimply 16 year olds fuddle around coupling hose.

While attacking individuals who volunteer as firefighters is not an effective way to address these issues, those who respond to their attacks might consider why these people think the way they do.

Most of these guys have seen both sides of the system, and they may have good reason to be righteously indignant at the defense of a system that causes irreparable harm to the people who make their homes where these folks live.

[Nightmare]

2- it bothers me because this person might be a car mechanic, or doing some type of safety type work, if this person makes a mistake because of lack of sleep or stress, that will affect all of us.
Regs - Your exactly right with your what if, except what about the flip side of this. A career person works a 24 hour shift, and on a busy day may not get any sleep or relaxation time, yet a 4:00 am how effective are these people going to be? Or what about on his/her off time the career person runs his/her own business or has part time employment and works extended hours, wouldnt that be the same scenario that you expressed. And these people are being paid to be there 100%. Is that fair to the citizens that pay his/her salary? Or when he/she injures themselves because of fatigue who pays then? So wouldnt it be fair to say that maybe if your a full time firefighter, you should not be authorized to work part-time or own your own business. And cut the shifts back to 8 hours.

[regs1]

Nightmare:

You are correct, some jurisdictions ban part time work, others look the other way, why? The low pay the paid people make, some firefighter have to work two jobs just to afford to live in the same community in which they work in.

You can also make the fatique question about the 24 hour shift, after working 16 hours with no sleep, how effective is this person.
A good risk management study could answer this question, but one thing, a paid f/f will experience this once every three or four days, for some volunteers this is a everyday experience.

[SouthsideLadderMan]

<<<yawn>>>

This argument is so tiring.


Why do some of you keep insisting that there are no Differences between us? You can wear all the FDNY, DCFD or LAFD shirts you want, Have all the Duty Requirements in the World, Staff your house full of Pimply college kids and never miss a run, but you still cannot guarantee the same services as a Full-time Career Department.

Until you handle the everyday duties of a Full-time Department, you cannot say "we are the same thing, except we don't get paid."

I am a Pro-volunteer MoFo, but I cannot sit here and say that I am on an equal plane to a DC or NYC Fireman. I can say that I am a plane above most of the Career Morons in my own jurisdiction, but I can't help that the Human Resources Department is located in a McDonalds Break room and they scrape the bottom of society's barrel for recruits.

I am not doing Building Inspections for Free
I am not Investigating Fires for Free
I am not Maintaining Apparatus for Free
I am not Doing Prevention work for Free.....

Those Functions are normally performed by someone who is Compensated. Like I said before, Most Volunteers come to the station to run fires and hang with the guys. Yeah, I am relying on alot of what I have learned to maybe get a career in the Fire service, but the last thing I am going to do is go to some recruit school preaching the "I know it all, I was a Volunteer" Chorus.

[burning85]

i agree with fifhting5th about "proffesionals" attitudes about vollies...the difference between a vollie and a pro is what??? a title u put in front of ur name on a resume or the tests u had to take? u cant tell me that a so-called pro's performance and skills are better than every volly out there, thats complete bullshit...i bet all my certifications that i know at least 15 firemen and/or women that could out perform some of the pro's out there with 2 times the knowledge and 2 times the experience on their side. and i am sure any pro out there at one time was a volunteer fire fighter....the difference to me is who went and took the tests...NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF PAPER defines pro from volly.if ur a pro..thats ur job. most volly's have jobs, families, families and jobs, and they still have time to do the exact same fucking job as u pro's do...and to me that is 100 times more commendable then anything u do...so people like volliessuck and u cw25 jump off ur high horses and get a life with this im better then u bullshit!!!

[SouthsideLadderMan]

Lookie here.

I never said I was better than ANYONE here. I merely am stating the fact that Volunteer and Career Firefighters are D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T.

families, families and jobs, and they still have time to do the exact same fucking job as u pro's do...

No, we don't do the "exact same fucking job." Thats the problem, you are as Jaded as the rest that think you do the same thing as a fireman in the Pittsburgh FD or wherever. You cannot do the same thing as they do and still maintain any type of life or career. If you want to do the "exact same fucking job as u pro's do" than go test and get hired. Until then you morons need to stop acting like the Voice of the Volunteer Fire Service nationwide and get a clue about this type of work and what it entails. It's a lot more than just looking like a "hero" on a website.

And BTW , firesnot4meEMT, I am a Volunteer and have been one for close to 14 years now in Suburban Washington DC (P.G.) and will defend my Volunteer Brothers to the end...but I also realize the dying trend of Volunteers in Areas surrounding large cities and I don't think there is anyone that can argue that with me. Maybe Kentland is an exception, but they are not the rule.

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by firesnot4meEMT
i agree with fifhting5th about "proffesionals" attitudes about vollies...the difference between a vollie and a pro is what??? a title u put in front of ur name on a resume or the tests u had to take? u cant tell me that a so-called pro's performance and skills are better than every volly out there, thats complete bullshit...i bet all my certifications that i know at least 15 firemen and/or women that could out perform some of the pro's out there with 2 times the knowledge and 2 times the experience on their side. and i am sure any pro out there at one time was a volunteer fire fighter....the difference to me is who went and took the tests...NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF PAPER defines pro from volly.if ur a pro..thats ur job. most volly's have jobs, families, families and jobs, and they still have time to do the exact same fucking job as u pro's do...and to me that is 100 times more commendable then anything u do...so people like volliessuck and u cw25 jump off ur high horses and get a life with this im better then u bullshit!!! Since you obviously did not read a key element to my post, I shall reprint it.

I can think of at least one large, suburban, and all-volunteer county north of here where the independent fiefdoms that masquerade as fire departments have vested personal power and financial interests in maintaining the status-quo, service to the citizens be damned. Scratching medical calls and going to 3rd, 4th or more due ambos is commonplace. Exterior fire attacks are the norm there, where the engine responds with a 70 year old driver and 1 or 2 probies without white tags.

Not everywhere is this true, but when your taxpayers begin to suffer from a failing entity, how long do you defend an all volunteer department that doesn't and can't meet it's jurisdiction's demand for service? I'll bet that VS, BB, and Jessup have borne witness to 30-40 minute medic response times and neighbors homes burning to the ground while pimply 16 year olds fuddle around coupling hose.


I am not attacking individuals who volunteer as firefighters or EMS personnel. I am taking issue with a system that allows for huge inconsistencies in service. In a paid, career fire department the above scenarios do not occur. Ever.

[NightWatcher]

I'm sorry, your right. I'll get off the watchdesk. I'll contact you through E-Mail Later.

[CaPitUL8]

Originally posted by firesnot4meEMT
NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF PAPER defines pro from volly.if ur a pro..thats ur job. most volly's have jobs, families, families and jobs, and they still have time to do the exact same fucking job as u pro's do...and to me that is 100 times more commendable then anything u do...so people like volliessuck and u cw25 jump off ur high horses and get a life with this im better then u bullshit!!! Spoken like somone who could'nt get hired. So Easy to run yer yap when you know nothing about the other side i.e. "professonal!". You can bet all your voilley certs if you want too about how great you and yer fellow heros are.. they only mean something to a dum-ass like you who thinks fire classes are the same as fire EXPERIANCE anway. Their probaly as helpful as you are on a fire -- NONE!

[regs1]

firesnot4meEMT:

This goes back to what is the difference between a paid department, and a volunteer department, and what each one does.
The first major difference is the when each member comes to work, and signs in, that person knows exactly what job he is supposed to do. Every other person knows what to expect of that person, and they know what their supposed to do, the apparatus acts as one unit, stays as a unit, no freelancing. The incident commander know what each company will be doing, and where those members are, the ICS system is working the way is supposed to. Yes you have some volunteers reach this level, but I am not talking about one, or even ten volunteers, but a whole department. In a paid department, everyone knows their job, if you are a linemen on E-1, you know what to do if you sign in as linemen on E-33. Same with every other position.
This is only the first of many items that makes is a difference.

your basicallysaying because you drive a pickup truck every day, took a driving class, you are now a professional truck driver.
there is a very big difference between the two, It is the same between volunteer and paid F/F's.

firesnot4meEMT;

you expressed that the volunteers do the same job, at a basic level yes they do, put the wet stuff on the red stuff, but that is where it ends. How can a vol. F/F who at a fire house between 10 to 20 hours compare with somebody who’s at a firehouse on average 48 hours or more per week, the amount of training is not even close.
In fact most of the volunteer firehouses I know that I would consider good departments are staffed by double hatters from the nearby paid departments. These departments are gaining the experience of paid firefighters.

I personally never put down volunteers, I feel that there is a necessary need for them, I often been accused for taking their side on this matter, but like it or not there is a difference, and often is found at the department level, not the individual level that everyone takes and writes about.

[DONGA]

In the county where I live, the Department of Public Works, takes care of all hydrants (painting, repair, and once a year flushing, The Fire Marshalls Office takes care of inspections. Each individual company takes care of fire prevention in their area. My company will come to your home and test your smoke detector if you call and we'll replace it if it does not work. We visit schools almost weekly for Fire Prevention. Our annual open house is geared 100% towards fire protection and awareness in the community.

We don't do a 100% of the same job as other Career juristictions, because we're not asked to.

I had a conversation with a Volunteer from New York, he lives just north of Dunkirk, and he was actually upset that his company had changed the requirements to ride the apparatus. Now everyone must have, at a minimum, Fire I, First Responder, and HAZMAT Ops. Add CPR, CSEP, and blood borne pathogenes and this has been the minimum level of training to ride in my company for many years.

Our company promotes the idea that you can never have enough training, and encourages all members to take as many University of Maryland, Maryland Fire and Rescue Institute classes as possible. The main reason for this is the type of equipment we have and the types of calls we run, today I might find myself on the Truck for a SFD fire, tomorrow I might find myself on the rescue at the scene of a 10-50 PI with rescue, the next day I might be on the engine running mutual aid and assigned as the RIT engine, or even on the boat answering the call for a water rescue. I have to have the training and ablilty to handle each and every type of call.

Does this make me better than a Career man, no. I say again, NO. Any man that dare to call another man Brother and then have the nerve to call himself better isn't worth a plug nickle.

Fire Fighting is a Brotherhood, plain and simple!

[CaPitUL8]

Originally posted by Fghtng5thFemale
While I appreciate your honesty....I can't help but find some irony in your need to defend me. You know what I mean.

This is not the place to discuss ancient history.

You are not a firefighter, in fact you are not involved in public safety of any nature so you don't belong on the watchdesk.
Our discussions may be heated, but they revolve around firefightering. If you want to talk you know my e-mail address, obviously. Contact me there. Fighting 5th femle,

After I read some of your stuff on Twd, I had kinda formed an opinion of you as this young, kind of know it all girl. But then read what you worte to this guy so after saying that, I should give you a complament.

Thanks for unnderstanding that Twd isnt the place to rehash yer love life. This dude Nightcrawler or whatever may just wanna say hi,. or might wanna to get in yer pants, but either way, he's not a fireman, so he shouldn't really talk smack to others even in youer defense.

It takes a set of balls to tell an ex-boyfriend this aint the place or time, and thatb you can stand up for yourself. good work

[Fghtng5thFemale]

Thanks for the compliment.

You know what they say, never judge a book by it's cover.

[Fghtng5thFemale]

Great job at helping the status of females in fire departments.

[Forest Gump]

Originally posted by CW25Truck11
<<<yawn>>>

This argument is so tiring.


Why do some of you keep insisting that there are no Differences between us? You can wear all the FDNY, DCFD or LAFD shirts you want, Have all the Duty Requirements in the World, Staff your house full of Pimply college kids and never miss a run, but you still cannot guarantee the same services as a Full-time Career Department.

Until you handle the everyday duties of a Full-time Department, you cannot say "we are the same thing, except we don't get paid."

I am a Pro-volunteer MoFo, but I cannot sit here and say that I am on an equal plane to a DC or NYC Fireman. I can say that I am a plane above most of the Career Morons in my own jurisdiction, but I can't help that the Human Resources Department is located in a McDonalds Break room and they scrape the bottom of society's barrel for recruits.

I am not doing Building Inspections for Free
I am not Investigating Fires for Free
I am not Maintaining Apparatus for Free
I am not Doing Prevention work for Free.....

Those Functions are normally performed by someone who is Compensated. Like I said before, Most Volunteers come to the station to run fires and hang with the guys. Yeah, I am relying on alot of what I have learned to maybe get a career in the Fire service, but the last thing I am going to do is go to some recruit school preaching the "I know it all, I was a Volunteer" Chorus.


This is out of character for my FG psudo persona, but...

You are not comparing individual to individual, you are comparing system to system.

Sure, the FDNY is going to perform better then 99.99999999% of most volunteer fire departments. There are some VFDs that my have better statistics or something, but the FDNY is going to come out on top the vast vast majority of the time.

But, now look at the individuals.

There are a LOT of volunteer firefighters, individuals, that what it takes and them some to be on the FDNY. They are not super heroes, they are human...

JUST LIKE ALL OF USE HERE!!!

With the exception of a few trolls, of which i admit, I am one.

But for fucks sake, this bullshit is getting old, seriously old.

BB or whatever he is calling himself is a troll, Voly Sucks is a troll, and i have been playing the part of a troll.

Give it a rest people, nobody is a superheroe, we are all faulable humans that make mistakes.

Even us paid guys who are superior to wackos in every way!!! ;)

[cappy]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[CaPitUL8]

Nobody get's you phoney FG. You ramble like a borderline retard, your jokes are terrible and your opinions are useless. SHUT UP Lame-O!!!!

[Bobby Boucher]

looks like cw25truck11 is saying what i have been saying all along. good to see that there are people on here who get it. just use some common sense folks. that is all i ask.

i never said that anyone was 'less of a person' (as mike ward accused me of) for being a volunteer. i do think there is a certain amount of nobility to it, sure. however, the whole time i have been on here, my problem has been with the people who say (presumably with a straight face, although i couldn't imagine how) that volunteers are JUST AS GOOD or BETTER than paid fds. bottom line, folks.

do the math. it comes out with me on top. i have offerred it up time and time again, and instead of providing any different objective argument, all i can get is a 'you suck' type response from you people.

simply putting it - there is no way you can do my job as your hobby better than i do it every third day. period.



BB

[SouthsideLadderMan]

Better be careful Bobby. You are now complimenting the "Poster Formerly Known as CWhite7704" on a good post.

I am becoming somewhat of a realist when it comes to the Volunteer Fire Service. Not giving up on it, just saying we need to make compromises and realize we cannot do it alone in these Suburban/Urban areas anymore. Until next time, Be safe.

Your Friend,

Barrywhite77777:D

[jonnyboy5_12]

Why is everybody getting so worked up over the forest gump guy? I started reading this site yesterday and it is obvious to me that he is joking around....lol Im a volunteer and proud of it...its a shame that we volunteers feel the need to defend ourselves to anybody, paid firemen, or the public. We all do the same job, its just that some get paid in money, others in pride.


peace out...512 fire all the way

[SouthsideLadderMan]

We all do the same job, its just that some get paid in money, others in pride.


<<<Shaking Head>>>

Some people just DO NOT get it!

Yes, when it comes to the basics of putting the Wet Stuff on the Red Stuff, we pretty much all do it the same way. However comparing your local VFD to a large Urban Department is like apples and oranges.

Johnnyboy, Read ALL of the posts relating to this. Especially mine. I think I have summed up on several threads how we, as volunteers, are NOT doing the same job. And yes, I am a Volunteer.

[jonnyboy5_12]

I think we all do the same job, just some do a higher quantity of it. We all get vehicle accidents, fires, public services, and we all wash apparatus. Its just some get MORE wrecks and fires....It doesnt mean that if your paid, you get worse wrecks, or bigger fires.you just get more of them....which is the only reason your paid anyway.



peace out... 512fire all the way

[Bobby Boucher]

cwhite,

first off, i didn't know it was you. however, for the record here, i agreed with your post. i did think it made sense. your comments are what i have been saying all along (my words just get caught up in a distraction since i attach the word wacko).

i think your post was on the money, period. and i am not going to use it in any way to prove any of MY points either. i do agree with the ideas though.


BB

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by Hopewell
I strongly suspect that BB, VS, Col. Jessup and others live in jurisdictions where the populace is indeed being failed by the volunteer system...I can think of at least one large, suburban, and all-volunteer county north of here where the independent fiefdoms that masquerade as fire departments have vested personal power and financial interests in maintaining the status-quo, service to the citizens be damned. Scratching medical calls and going to 3rd, 4th or more due ambos is commonplace. Exterior fire attacks are the norm there, where the engine responds with a 70 year old driver and 1 or 2 probies without white tags...I'll bet that VS, BB, and Jessup have borne witness to 30-40 minute medic response times and neighbor's homes burning to the ground while pimply 16 year olds fuddle around coupling hose...those who respond to their attacks might consider why these people think the way they do...Most of these guys have seen both sides of the system, and they may have good reason to be righteously indignant at the defense of a system that causes irreparable harm to the people who make their homes where these folks live.

Hopewell, you da man! You got it, you understood exactly what I've been trying to say, and you even said it better than I have! (You also have described my county's fire protection system exactly.) Thanks!

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by jonnyboy5_12
I think we all do the same job, just some do a higher quantity of it. We all get vehicle accidents, fires, public services, and we all wash apparatus. Its just some get MORE wrecks and fires....It doesnt mean that if your paid, you get worse wrecks, or bigger fires.you just get more of them....which is the only reason your paid anyway.

Did you ever stop to think that a lot of the people who criticize VFDs and compare them negatively to career FDs know what they are talking about because they were vollies at one time? That their opinions are informed opinions, and not just rants backed by emotion? Do you understand that they've LIVED both sides of this argument and have realized a few things about the differences between volunteer and career fire protection?

You ever been in a real (career) fire department? If not, how do you know what differences there are between paid and vollie departments?

Let me point out just one hole in your silly argument. You admit that paid guys get more of every kind of run...but you don't think that makes a difference? You really think that a career firefighter's experience counts for no more than yours? Come on, be real...

[Handline23]

Vollies suck, If ur so impressive as a paid member may I ask what Dept you are employed by?? I have been reading some of your views and i can't help but laugh at what a jerkoff u are but anyway some of your union brothers like in OH, PA and MA are slowly starting to grace the volly ranks again because of the economy, just can't wait till you get your PINK card and then lets see you run your mouth!! IAFF proud!!! Right!!!!! Have a good Christmas brothers

[jonnyboy5_12]

vollies suck,
No, I am not a career firefighter, and no I do not have as much experience as some of you on here. Yes, I have run calls with paid departments, because our volunteer company has agreements with the one paid department near us. Also, I am a career EMT, and I DO understand the thought processes of paid vs volunteer. From my experience, paid dont care as much..to them its just a job. One thing that i think is more of an issue than paid vs vollie, is EMS vs FIRE....what is up with that? maybe its just in PA, i dunno. do you guys have problems between fire and ems?

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by jonnyboy5_12
One thing that i think is more of an issue, is EMS vs FIRE....what is up with that? maybe its just in PA, i dunno. do you guys have problems between fire and ems? Who doesn't? Maybe somewhere such a Utopia exists, but not anywhere I can think of.

This could really be its' own thread. You bring two possible subjects up for debate; (1) the adversarial relationship between hose jockeys and band-aid pushers, partcularly where they are separate entities, and (2) In systems where EMS is fire based, and you have dual trained responders, how most feel about performing both duties.

Interesting shift in discussion.

[HAZMAT-34]

Vollies Suck,


You are such an arrogant a$$hole!!! Your attitude tells me that you really don't like what you do. And the only reason that you rip on Volunteers is because your wife/girlfriend must have been stolen from you by some volunteer. Maybe you should play by the golden rule....If you can't say something nice...don't say anything at all.


P.S. I am a Career Firefighter!

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by HAZMAT-34
Vollies Suck,


You are such an arrogant a$$hole!!! Your attitude tells me that you really don't like what you do. And the only reason that you rip on Volunteers is because your wife/girlfriend must have been stolen from you by some volunteer. Maybe you should play by the golden rule....If you can't say something nice...don't say anything at all.


P.S. I am a Career Firefighter! I'm trying to tell you guys... every time someone responds this way to him, it gives him more fuel to fire back meaner instead of listen to your points.

I know he has an inflamatory screen name. But try to understand what he has to say about HIS OWN EXPERIENCE with volunteer firefighters. Maybe if someone asked what sort of problems he faces with the system where he lives and offered help in finding an effective solution to the system where he lives, he'd be less likely to unload both barrels and piss you all off about the way things operate where YOU live.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by HAZMAT-34
Vollies Suck, You are such an arrogant a$$hole!!! Your attitude tells me that you really don't like what you do. And the only reason that you rip on Volunteers is because your wife/girlfriend must have been stolen from you by some volunteer. Maybe you should play by the golden rule....If you can't say something nice...don't say anything at all. P.S. I am a Career Firefighter!

Ah yes, another logical, well-thought out response from a vollie airhead. (If you're a career firefighter, babe, then I'm an astronaut.) Thanks for proving what I learned a long time ago: that when someone absolutely can't refute what you say in a debate, they'll resort to name-calling, cause it's all they've got left.

Hopewell, thanks for understanding where I'm coming from on this, but you and I are both wasting our time with these goofballs. You'd have better luck teaching nuclear physics to a chimpanzee.

[Bobby Boucher]

wow, hopewell made his/her first ever intelligent post. can we get a round of applause for him/her?

seriously, your last point actually is good. now whether or not some of the other wackos will be able to process and understand it may be a different story.

just wanted to let you know.....


BB

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by Bobby Boucher
wow, hopewell made his/her first ever intelligent post. can we get a round of applause for him/her?

seriously, your last point actually is good. now whether or not some of the other wackos will be able to process and understand it may be a different story.

just wanted to let you know.....


BB I'm a bit surprised at you Bobby. (1) The information about my sex and department affiliation is available in my profile. (2) I have posted many times, and usually with what would be considered intelligent statements; the latest of which you referenced not being one of my finer ones.

I have not joined in bashing the skulls out of volunteers, but that doesn't mean I haven't read or agreed with much of what you write. I admire and respect anyone who makes well thought, intellectual arguments, and uses facts and experience to back their opinion. I expect in return, the same courtesy. Is it wise to alienate your support base?

[HAZMAT-34]

Vollies Suck,

Number one you don't know me. So you asertation that I am not a Career Firefighter means jack shit to me. If your so much better than volunteers...why waste your precious time? Because you have no life......thats the reason.

Have a great one!

IAFF - Proud Union Firefighter.

[Bobby Boucher]

i agree with you that my comments probably weren't worded properly. i was simply trying to be funny in the first part.

i was really complimenting you though. you posted a good thought there.

as for you being my 'support base', uh, i don't think so. i don't think anyone is my 'support base'. not that i can't get along with others or possibly have agreement on opinions, but no one needs to support me in anything i say on here. either you agree or disagree. period.

again, sorry for the misunderstanding, however, i haven't seen any volunteers rushing to condemn or support your thoughts yet. could it be that since you are a volunteer they are scared to agree? perhaps?



BB

[burning85]

firesnot4meEMT
Great job at helping the status of females in fire departments.



fighting5th if that was a snide remark...please remember no one helps any one but themselves. i made that statement about my own personal views and NOT the generalization for every woman firefighter career or volunteer. and like every announced opinion it wa rebutted with no mercy by everyone with their own opinions.

and if ur comment was a sincere remark thanks anyways.

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by Bobby Boucher
i agree with you that my comments probably weren't worded properly. i was simply trying to be funny in the first part.

i was really complimenting you though. you posted a good thought there.

as for you being my 'support base', uh, i don't think so. i don't think anyone is my 'support base'. not that i can't get along with others or possibly have agreement on opinions, but no one needs to support me in anything i say on here. either you agree or disagree. period.

again, sorry for the misunderstanding, however, i haven't seen any volunteers rushing to condemn or support your thoughts yet. could it be that since you are a volunteer they are scared to agree? perhaps?
BB Fair enough about the "support base" comment. Although I have agreed with much of what you write, since I have not actually said "Right on Bobby!" after your posts, you have a valid point. I do support your right to express your experience, and think that those who respond should do so respectful of your base of knowledge, provided you afford them the same.

I certainly do not think you want or need mine or anyone else's say-so to validate your opinion.

Thank you for the compliment, I know I always look forward to your posts. Like them or dislike them, they are always entertaining and thought provoking. I thank you for that.

P.S. According to my profile, I am a professional (i.e. IAFF) firefighter.:)

Be safe, Brother Boucher.

[pimpfirefighter]

twd..... a great place to bash anyone u want in the FD cause u can hide, but im not scared to say im a 100% volly..but some of my really good friends r paid/volly, yes most of them dont like some vollys but hell i know some vollys that dont like vollys. i think everyone wants to do the same job hell if u ask me i think there is more paid firefighters who r doin it for a pay check then vollys doin it to say we we look at me. I do it cause its something i enjoy, i could go jump out of a plane i mighta brake my leg but that is not what i want to do. for me the chance to help save a life or a chance to save someone from loseing everything the own and put a smile on someones face or have kids from the school's send us letters thanking us for what we do its what i do it for i dont do it for fame and glory i could care less if i get called a hero or not. but all this shit sounds like a bunch of fucking kids bitching at school i think all u need to grow up cause u know what if u dont run with vollys, or paid then what the fuck do u care worrie about your self and not what others say cause u know what id fight fire with a paid or volly and day of the week as long as they know the job and are not goin to get me killed. but then again i guess anyone can say what they want it is the USA and u got that right. i just get tired of hearing the same damn thing every thread on here why cant u learn to work togeather and get the job done??? that is what i want to know.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by pimpfirefighter
twd..... a great place to bash anyone u want in the FD cause u can hide, but im not scared to say im a 100% volly..but some of my really good friends r paid/volly, yes most of them dont like some vollys but hell i know some vollys that dont like vollys. i think everyone wants to do the same job hell if u ask me i think there is more paid firefighters who r doin it for a pay check then vollys doin it to say we we look at me. I do it cause its something i enjoy, i could go jump out of a plane i mighta brake my leg but that is not what i want to do. for me the chance to help save a life or a chance to save someone from loseing everything the own and put a smile on someones face or have kids from the school's send us letters thanking us for what we do its what i do it for i dont do it for fame and glory i could care less if i get called a hero or not. but all this shit sounds like a bunch of fucking kids bitching at school i think all u need to grow up cause u know what if u dont run with vollys, or paid then what the fuck do u care worrie about your self and not what others say cause u know what id fight fire with a paid or volly and day of the week as long as they know the job and are not goin to get me killed. but then again i guess anyone can say what they want it is the USA and u got that right. i just get tired of hearing the same damn thing every thread on here why cant u learn to work togeather and get the job done??? that is what i want to know.

To answer your last question first, we can't work together because ignorant nitwits like you keep insulting paid guys by saying we do it only for the paycheck, and you insult us further by insisting that you are equivalent to us.

[T1Side1]

ok we all know i have put my 2 cents in about the issue and im done with that...but now i have a serious question to ask you vollies suck..
are you saying that the highest ranking or most experienced volunteer in the country is not as "good" as the newest rookie out of recruit school in a career department???
if so or if not...either way, where do you draw the line between the two...not saying they do the same job....not around the firehouse anyway....just in general.
what are your thoughts.?

[Bullgod]

Good point T1,
Now then I have a questions for Volliessuck, do we not get the same training? The same classes? The same Building? The same instructors? All for the same reason? I know in Baltimore County we do...Lets think back to why we become a firefighter or EMS personel to begin with? I know why I got into to it, but what about you? Did you start out career? Or did some point in your life decide that the Vollies weren't good enough for you?

Just my food for your thought...



The Daver

[volley4life_8]

I was checking out some of your posts on other threads and I noticed you hadn't responded to this one. I was wondering why?

Originally posted by DONGA on the Harford County Thread

"Do you promote people through a civil service test administered countywide, or do you elect your officers in each VFD? As your same-as-paid-guys vollies progress through their "careers", do they achieve higher and higher rank, or is it possible in your county to be the chief of a VFD one year, a sergeant the next, and a firefighter the year after that? Do your members ride at any station in your same-as-paid-guys system, do they get detailed from one station to the next, or do they belong to only one VFD in your county? Do your members do one specific job all the time, or is it possible for an officer to drive an engine, or a rookie to be the officer on a call if no one else is available?"

My Company and each of the Volunteer Companies my company runs mutual aid with have minimum training standards and minimum length of service for each applicant for office. And as with every Volunteer System I ever heard of, the officers are elected by popular vote.

By the same token, I know that many Career Departments utilize an "Acting Man" position when an "Officer" is not available for the shift. What are the qualifications for and "Acting Man", I'm not sure. I can only assume that they are at the very minimum the same as the qualifications to be an Officer.

"Do your VFD members work scheduled shifts? Are all fire stations fully manned 24/7/365, or do you have to alert people via pagers or sirens when you have a call? Since you are the same as a paid department, I guess you don't even know what "late" or "short-crew" mean, huh? And nobody ever fails to respond in your same-as-paid-guys system, do they?"

As you already know, Volunteers respond from home via alert by pager, or they respond when they are at the station. The standard for a late response in this county is 5 minutes, in my opinion about 3 minutes too long. And any apparatus staffed by less than 4 qualified Fire Fighters is to report their response to Communications as "Short Crew". Unfortunately a scratched call is a nasty sting only felt in a Volunteer system.

"Fact is you don't do ANYTHING like a career municipal or county fire department does things, and you and I both know it."

The fact is, there are differences between how a Career Department and a Volunteer Department are run, the fact is there are differences between your job description as a Career Fire Fighter and my job description as a Volunteer Fire Fighter. As I stated before "The job of Fighting Fire, showing up on the apparatus, doing a quick size up, developing a initial plan of attack, developing a backup plan, accounting for my crew, putting the damn fire out, and last but not least, getting me and my crew back to the station in one piece is the same weather your a Career or Volunteer Fire Fighter." This is what we do as Volunteers, because it is all that is asked of us by the community we serve. If asked to do more, we have 2 choices. 1) Step up and meet the challenge, or 2) Step aside, yield to, support and augment the implementation of a Career Service.

[Chief1]

http://www.ci.bloomington.mn.us/cityhall/dept/fire/fire.htm

"The City maintains a 150-person volunteer Fire Department, one of the largest of its kind in the country. The excellent fire protection provided by the Fire Department has resulted in an ISO Class III fire rating for Bloomington."


The latest in fire fighting equipment:

*Total of about thirty units, including pumpers, ladders and other specialty units.
*Average response time is four (4) minutes and the number of fire fighters responding depends upon the type, location and severity of the emergency.
*Both fire and police vehicles have opticom equipment, providing for automatic switching of traffic signals, to expedite emergency runs.
*All 150 fire fighters are trained to First Responder and Fire Fighter II level.



V/S,
Are these Brothers and Sisters "real" fire fighters or are they too just a bunch of pick-em-up truck driving red necks as well?


Just a question
Chief1

[Tony Montana]

Vollie for life,

You need to get a life! Your probably that type that has no girlfriend, dead end job and no social life. Do yourself a favor and go and find the real world.

[volley4life_8]

Geeze Tony, what'd I do to spawn that attack? You seem a bit hostile, what has provoked this attitude?

[pimpfirefighter]

v.s i didnt say u all r in it for a pay check but i know for a fact their is whole lot of paid fire men who r in it for a pay check so u can kiss my ass about that, and i never claim to be as good as u cause i dont know u and to be honest could really care less about u and i never said i was better then anyone ill be the first to tell u that ive only been in the FD for a few yr. i know the job that needs to be done i know what i have to do to get the job done yes there is alot of good fire men out there and there is alot of people that id never trust to go into a burning building with. so insults i may have done and u know what if i did GOOD cause i dont care about u so kiss my ass.

[Chief1]

Can someone translate that last post for me please.

Chief1

[T1Side1]

Buying a computer to log on to TWD - $850.00

Leather helmet so that you think youre a real fireman - $450.00


16 individual sentences with no periods and no point - Priceless...

some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's public schools.....

[pimpfirefighter]

lol thats good i like it, but u know what i dont care about making u happy cause this thread does not mean shit to me and 4 your info i dont wear a leather, i dont need one to be a fire fighter, besides on fires i hide behind the fire truck cause im scared. oh wait i dont even do that cause im really not a fire fighter i ride the medic and take BP's on the fire ground

[regs1]

pimpfirefighter

If you really have something to say, please do so, no one can understand what you are trying to say; I hope you trying just to pump up people by use of poor English, and writing skills. In using this style of writing you not only insult yourself, but all those who strive to make firefighting professional throughout the U.S. The question becomes why do you portray yourself to be on a 6 year old education level. Are you the same type of person who volunteers at a firehouse takes all the training, and then commits arson and then put the fire out to show how great a firefighter he/she is?
I feel sorry that you have to resort to this level just to say something on a bulletin board.

[jonnyboy5_12]

pimpfirefighter

the nuthouse called looking for you. jkjk what point are you trying to get across? you make absolutely no sense.

peace out everybody

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by T1Side1
Buying a computer to log on to TWD - $850.00

Leather helmet so that you think youre a real fireman - $450.00


16 individual sentences with no periods and no point - Priceless...

some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's public schools..... Now on this, I agree whole heartedly. Well done.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by Hopewell
Now on this, I agree whole heartedly. Well done.

Ditto...

[Hopewell]

Originally posted by e40bib
VS & Hopewell
I have been a volunteer for 18 years and paid for 15 years, I think the same place you work. The two have never been interchangable, there are someplaces where the volunteers do things a little better ie. auto accidents with persons trapped R-1 get there and takes over you never get the exprience. The volunteer company I ride with has tougher than most to even be an engine driver let alone an officer. You need to be a driver and have Fire officer 1 and 6 hours of contining education to run for Lieutenant, it just get harder after that. I never dumped water in from the outside just like I have never done that at work, except when an interior attack was not safe. The voting thing works in the volunteers, it would not work in the BCFD. The nice thing about the vote is you can get rid of a goof after a year or you don't have to keep a load that was hired for who the hell knows what reason. Not knowing VS personally, where he lives or where he works, I certainly can't speak for him. I can imagine his response would entail something to the effect of lack of universal standards in the volunteer service, but his opinion is his own and I've been known to disagree with him.

Anyway, as far as your experience goes, you seem to have a system in place in your volunteer company that calls for progressive experience, training, and education in order to be an eligible candidate for officer's positions, and you apparently train your rank and file members in appropriate tactics. If your SOPs are designed to effectively manage your personnel and training in such a manner, I see no problem with how you run your operation. In fact, it sounds like you guys are fairly on the ball.

[Vollies Suck]

e40bib, I'm sure you can cite individual volly companies that have their shit together, and if yours is one of them, that's fine. In the area where I live, and in many other places, they do not have their shit together, and do not serve the best interests of the public. And as I've said many times, I do not think it is smart in this day and age to provide any emergency public service with people who might or might not be available when you need them.

I know very well how elections in volly companies work, and I think it's a bad idea. Those elections are popularity contests, regardless of whether the people running for office have some specified qualifications or not. Your comment about getting rid of "goofs" after a year by voting them out raises this question: If elections are a good way to select officers, how can a "goof" get elected in the first place???

While some people in career departments get hired or promoted for the wrong reasons, in general I think those who are promoted in career FDs deserve the jobs and progress through the ranks. In my FD, those testing for promotion to officer ranks take a very tough written test, and then are interviewed by a board made up of officers from other FDs. Those who are motivated enough to seek promotion generally have the qualities you want to see in your officers. Only rarely do we have a "goof" get promoted who has to be demoted later.

[jonnyboy5_12]

vs
so you think that in rural areas, where the call volume is under 400 a year, there should be paid staffing>? who would pay for it? the public couldnt...or wouldnt.

I agree that the voting in volunteer fire companies is a joke. it is a popularity contest.

I also think that you are right about some volunteer fire departments being unreliable. Although some things are just the "joys" of rural firefighting...for example, we had a chicken house fire friday night that was fully involved...(not that you really work those fires) but we had a total of about 2 hrs without water... there werent any hydrants and the tanker to fill site was messed up. It just happens. we got the job done..it was a cluster though... The fire company that had command usually gets less than 300 calls a year...probably 10 or less working fires...so they are pretty green. Still, you arent going to get the public to support paid staff at a station like that. Not enough calls.

Now, in Lancaster we have 83 fire dept's most within a few miles from each other...if we get rid of most of them and keep like 5, maybe they could be paid..but there is too much tradition in the volunteer fire service...
sry to drone on
peace out

[regs1]

VS:


I know you probably answer this, but have you ever been in a volunteer fire department, and what section of the country, and how long.

I take NE Mid-Atlantic, SE, Mid-West – West –SW - NW - as an answer - this might explain some questions that I have.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by regs1
VS:I know you probably answer this, but have you ever been in a volunteer fire department, and what section of the country, and how long.

I have explained that I was a vollie in a combination department for several years as teenager. When I began my career I still rode at the VFD, but after awhile -- a couple of years -- I gave it up. I couldn't go to work in a firehouse and then spend my time off in a firehouse. Plus, I became very aware of the problems inherent in even the best VFD, like elections and junior members and waiting for a driver and short crews, etc., etc., and I couldn't stand it any more.

My total time as a vollie was about 5 years or so. I do not regret it, and it introduced me to the fire service, but I speak from experience when I criticize volunteer systems.

[regs1]

VS:

thanks for the answer about how long, but not where, I was a volunteer for 10 years, most of it in the NE, but one year in FLA.
Been a paid person for over 25 years in a major city on the east coast.
I have learned one thing, every section of the country, volunteer fire houses operated completly different. Some volunteers have their act together, others the community would be better off with no fire department.

A good example of this is the firehouses in NY metro area do not have live in volunteer firefighters, in the wash dc area they do.

I can understand your opinion after being volly in a combo fire station, my first job offer was from this type of system, I turned it down because of the potential problems is saw. This type of system seem to have the most problems between vol. and paid members.

[Odie23]

Actually, one of the best volunteer fire departments I've seen was a combination department. Lafayette Village is in Cumberland Co. and has had part of there first due annexed by the city of Fayetteville. Granted it's been about 8 years since I was there, but there was no anamosity between the career and non career firefighters. The career staffing had 3 shifts and worked a 24 on 48 off 24 on 48 off 24 on 72 off. The non career staffing has 2 shifts and was expected to cover one of the shifts during the 72 off break. (it worked out to like an 8 -10 hour shift for the volunteers every other weekend) Career and non career were expected to return to the firehouse whenever the on duty shift had a call (at the time I thought we were busy with our 500 runs a year). And the best thing about the way the station worked was that the hireing was done at the station, the station paid the career staffing, and whenever a job became available the most qualified applicant (read volunteer) got the job. IMHO, they are the model that any combination department should strive to emulate.

Odie

[regs1]

Odie23:

I glad that the combo system works in your community; it shows that vast differences in fire departments in the US.

[Vollies Suck]

Regs, I have travelled a lot, all over the country, and have met firefighters from every region. I know there are big differences between various FDs, career and volunteer. There are some career FDs I would not want to work for -- some of those in small southern towns come to mind -- and there are some VFDs that I'm sure do things the right way.

The bottom line, though, is that any volunteer system depends on people who are not doing it for a living, and cannot be compelled to be there. And that is an inherent problem that cannot be solved. I became starkly aware of that when I began my career, and saw how a professional FD does things. It was a real eye-opener.

Like you, I am an F.O.G. now...how long will you stick around before pulling the plug?

[kptbolt911]

Originally posted by Vollies Suck
There are some career FDs I would not want to work for -- some of those in small southern towns come to mind -- and there are some VFDs that I'm sure do things the right way.


SOOOOOOOO VS .... YOU HAVE SAID YOURSELF THAT YOU DO AGREE WITH SOME VFDs oh I'll quote you again " do things the right way" ....... I believe that says it all ... mr vollies doesn't know what side he is really on ..... and after all your former posts I thought you did !!!!!! Bottom line is there is no sides ..... you live for the job .... but hopefully not die on the job ... paid or not !!!!!

[regs1]

VS:

Have kids in college, be around awhile for the bucks and grins, and to watch the administration self destruct.

[almostthere]

???????

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by kptbolt911
SOOOOOOOO VS .... YOU HAVE SAID YOURSELF THAT YOU DO AGREE WITH SOME VFDs oh I'll quote you again " do things the right way" ....... I believe that says it all ... mr vollies doesn't know what side he is really on ..... and after all your former posts I thought you did !!!!!! Bottom line is there is no sides ..... you live for the job .... but hopefully not die on the job ... paid or not !!!!!

I have never said that each and every VFD in the country is bad or sucks or whatever. I have said that in this day and age, I do not think it is a good idea to provide fire protection and EMS with a system that depends on people who might or might not be available when needed.

Yes, I'm sure that in this whole vast land, there are some VFDs who have their shit together. But that doesn't mean I approve of VFDs as a concept. I know exactly what side I am on, and there has never been any doubt about that.

[emtfiredog21102]

Look, I have been a volunteer Fire Fighter/EMT since I was 16 years old, and I can say, that in my little part of the world that is the vast expance called Carroll County, Maryland, I have been exposed to a lot of aspects of the fire service. Whith that said, their is also a lot that I was not exposed to until I was hired as an Airport FF, and then moved on to be hired as a Baltimore City Fire Fighter/Paramedic Apprentice. Volunteer Fire companies do with what the can, we try do pre plan every building we can, do as much public fire safety, ie do annual school visits, day care visits, host birthday party's, test what hydrents, wet and dry, we have, etc. What we can't do we hand off to the local and state agencies. It is a fact that some volunteer fire companies can not do all the jobs that a paid fire service can, we just do not have the manning, nor the funds. With reguards to the term professional, it does not matter if you get paid or not, it is about the way you conduct your self and project yourself to the public you serve, and to the other fire companies in your surrounding area. I know of a few companies and personal in my carrier dept. that do not project a professional apperence or work ethic.

Next point, I don't understand how some one, who has never visited, in person, another persons destrict, can criticize said district, if you can understand that, if not I'll explain. Just because a towns web page does not have pictures of high rise hotels and such, does not mean that they do not exist. In sipmle terms, don't criticize another comnpanie's need for equipment untill you have seen their needs, especially in today's times.

Third point. I have been to many fire houses, while I was on summer vacations or trainnig trips accross the nation, and not one I have been to, did not have at least one or two pictures of a job they had that was really kick ass. Like one of a car in a really weird position, or a fully engulfed house/building. Now I'm not advocationg to take pictures instead of abating the hazard, but their is nothing wrong with the Pump Operator, or even the Fire Fighter taking a quick pic before he/she goes to work. Then placeing it on their wall at work/home/or web site, it helps moral and it gives that extra kick in the ass when the budget cuts come down the pike and we need to defend having x amount of trucks and engines and fire boats.

Forth point. Going back to the statement that was made that Volunteer Fire Depts. are full of people that could not get hired at a paid dept. that is utter nonsense. I know from my own, how ever short experence, that most Volunteer Depts. membership's are made up of a good amount of paid Fire Fighters. In fact, at my volly house, all but two out of seven dept. officers are carrier Fire Fighters and Paramedics. It is and accurate statement that volunteer fire compaines do have members that are not paid fire fighters, but they are made up of people that have a calling to serve their public, not that they could not pass a written test, or a drug screening or a physical aggility test. That would be like saying a member af your states National Guard Unit is less qualified as a member of and Active duty unit. Unfortunately, we do have people that we may depend on at certin times, ie when a person signs up for a duty night, and they do not show up, and that is a fact we have to live with. They are Citizen Solders just as we in the volunteer community are citizen Fire Fighter's, EMT's, and Paramedic's. If you ask around your job and find vets from the 60's and 70's, I'm positive you will hear of stories about people getting high and such, while on the job. Don't get me wrong, every once in a while you will find a fire bug or two hanging out at a volly house, but most departments do the same background check that a carrier dept. does to it's employees.

Now I have tried to not name names and point fingers at people, but I have to ask, Vollies Suck, you keep on saying that your a Paid Fire Fighter and Member of a union. If you would please endulge not only mine but every one elses question, where are you employed as a Fire Fighter and what is your union # ?

I have been a Volunteer Fire Fighter in Carroll County, Maryland for 5 years, I am a Air Force ARFF, and I am employed with the Baltimore City Fire Service, local 794 and 964. I am assigned to
E-33 stationed on E. 25th st and Kirk Ave. on the east side in the gehtto.

I relize that the vollunter system is not perfect, nor will it ever be, we have elections for company officers and adm. offices that are based, some times, on how popular some one is and not their qualifications. It is however the suystem we haven and it has been around since the Greeks, and it will always be around.

I hope I have brought some light to this dim subject. Stay safe and remember we are all part of a brotherhood, vollies and paid.

[kptbolt911]

Vollies .... I really don't know why you even try to keep this up ... you just keep looking like an asshole more and more every time you post ........ there are many more professional "career" firefighters out there that think YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE .... because you give them a bad name because..... oh yeah thats right .... YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE WHO DOESN'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ... AND YOU MAY BE A MASTER CHEF WHO WANTS TO STIR THE POT BUT I AM THE MASTER CHEF AND YOUR THOUGHTS HAVE ABSOTULETLY NO THOUGHT BEHIND THEM AND NOT INTULECT AT ALL SO UNTIL YOU HAVE SOMETHING INTELEGENT TO SAY ... GO FUCK YOURSELF AND COWER IN A HOLE .... THEN MAYBE YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU SUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[Tool Fool]

Vollie sucker has feelings too...............

[BCFD in Philly]

Originally posted by kptbolt911
Vollies .... I really don't know why you even try to keep this up ... you just keep looking like an asshole more and more every time you post ........ there are many more professional "career" firefighters out there that think YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE .... because you give them a bad name because..... oh yeah thats right .... YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE WHO DOESN'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ... AND YOU MAY BE A MASTER CHEF WHO WANTS TO STIR THE POT BUT I AM THE MASTER CHEF AND YOUR THOUGHTS HAVE ABSOTULETLY NO THOUGHT BEHIND THEM AND NOT INTULECT AT ALL SO UNTIL YOU HAVE SOMETHING INTELEGENT TO SAY ... GO FUCK YOURSELF AND COWER IN A HOLE .... THEN MAYBE YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU SUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

Try reading your post while standing in front of a mirror.

[Fghtng5thFemale]

Haven't you figured it out by now that he enjoys this?
The more you respond, the more fuel he can add to his fire.
No dig on you, but unless you are enjoying this too, why bother?

You aren't going to change his mind by insulting him like crazy.
Yeah, it pisses him off, I sure did, but it gets old.

[Vollies Suck]

Originally posted by kptbolt911
Vollies .... I really don't know why you even try to keep this up ... you just keep looking like an asshole more and more every time you post ........ there are many more professional "career" firefighters out there that think YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE .... because you give them a bad name because..... oh yeah thats right .... YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE WHO DOESN'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ... AND YOU MAY BE A MASTER CHEF WHO WANTS TO STIR THE POT BUT I AM THE MASTER CHEF AND YOUR THOUGHTS HAVE ABSOTULETLY NO THOUGHT BEHIND THEM AND NOT INTULECT AT ALL SO UNTIL YOU HAVE SOMETHING INTELEGENT TO SAY ... GO FUCK YOURSELF AND COWER IN A HOLE .... THEN MAYBE YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU SUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

I see your pharmacy ran out of thorazine...

[Karl Childers]

I would have to disagree. If he was on thorazine, he wouldn't be able to type at all. He would be busy doing the "thorazine shuffle". Probably ran out of zoloft and prozac. This younger generation seems to think they are vitamins. Probably suffers from ADD, too.:D

[hog]

Run Forrest Run you moron