Apparatus

[38-3]

Just for fun, let's vote for our favorite apparatus.

[888]

When I voted for seagrave, I'm voting for pre-90's. Seems they're like everyone else after that.

[ENGINEDUDELT]

Seagrave, Seagrave, Seagrave...................red Seagrave With Federal "q", and as GHETTO suggested, two roto-rays.

[Ghetto FF]

<<<<<Seagrave, Seagrave, Seagrave...................red Seagrave With Federal "q">>>>>

Don't forget the roto ray to go with the Fed Q. I would like to see two rays on the Seagrave, one on each side with a Mars light in the center.

[ENGINEDUDELT]

right, right, right..........great idea

[Tanker1]

Mack not a choice whats up with that???????????? :mad:

[HoseNuDownHunny]

Yeah really what's up with that..........No Mack category..........lol I'm voting for Mack..... :D

[Ghetto FF]

Dint Mack stop making fire trucks? Maybe that's why there is no category. Would love to see Mack's come back to my area.

[Tanker1]

Mack may not make firetrucks anymorethey are still the best on the market !!! :D

[OCNYFireBuff]

You can still get a Mack chassis with somebody else's body on it. See plenty of MR's, and even a handful of Granites out there lately.

As for the poll....Spartan is only a chassis manufacturer, and Luverne is only bodywork, as is Central States. So, technically, you could add Mack and Saulsbury to even things out. And, don't forget E-One.

Me, I like almost all of 'em, but if you're gonna hold a gun to my head and make me pick one, I gotta go with Pierce. :D

[Ghetto FF]

<<<<<And, don't forget E-One.>>>>>


I bet more people would like to forget E-One's than those who like them.

[Tanker1]

E-ONE Americas junk
Big Mack Attack

[38-3]

The reason that Mack wasn't an option was becuase I didn't have enough room to add it. I also just tried to keep it to the main body manufacturers. I'll make a poll for chassis sometime unless someone gets to it before me, just don't forget the Freightliners!

[Task Force 7]

I had to vote for PIERCE. :cool: :cool:

[hey bub]

The top pick of them all is Pierce.

[Tanker1]

I am a MACK person at heart but out of the choices I would have to say I like Pierce the best.

[emt38]

:cool: You have to like 4 dr kenworths......Frieghtliners are cocky too :D

[DC8FD]

Pierce Rules!!! :d

[thebiggulp]

NOT TOO MANY FERRARAS IN THE BIG CITY I SEE. RIDE IN ONE ONCE AND YOU'LL SELL ALL THE REST. WE LIKED OUR INFERNO ENGINE/TANKER SO MUCH WE BOUGHT ANOTHER ONE. CHECK IT OUT AT WWW.FERRARAFIRE.COM CLICK ON TANKERS AND IT'S THE ONE RIGHT ABOVE CUSTOM TANKERS.

[BobR]

For engines I went with the Pierce. Have worked off a few and loved them. For Squads thought I'd go with Salsbury/Spartan. For tankers I'd go with a commercial chassie like Freightliner or Kenworth. Hey, if your going to haul water, why not get a chassie that's built for it.

[Chief113]

Pierce, Great apparatus! Great service!

[FLIPPER MAN]

SEAGRAVE- SEAGRAVE-SEAGRAVE
A month a go some fellow firefightersand I visitied Seagrave, there is no comparison to other Manufactures. Our department has purchased Pierce for the last 30- 40 years and this year we purchased a 2004 Marauder. The things we saw at Seagrave were unreal now I know why they cost more, you know what they say "You get what you pay for". The biggest thing the Seagrave has going for them is there biggest concern for the Firefighter and the public the serve. The craftsmenship that we saw was remarkable. We almost made a big mistake and bought a Sutphen but we saw that there biggest concern was to cut cost and sell trucks. We had a big concern with the frame rails of this truck due to the wheel base of 233" and over all lenght of 411" hauling 1000 gal of water. Sutphen use 55,000 psi frame rails and Seagrave uses 120,000 psi frame rails, Sutphen's explanation was that when you bend the frame it loses less tensile strenghth when heated when you straighten them back. I would just assume get the frame rails that may never bend than drive a truck that can be bent back if you wreck it. I would venture to say that there are not to many fire fighters who would like to drive a fire truck that has a frame that has been bent before. If you are interested in a new truck you need to look at Seagrqave you will not be sorry. The people at Seagrave will treat you with top notch service from the CEO down to the employees on the manufacturing floor. If you are interested in West Virginia Contact John Huber of Fire Chasers Fire Equipment (Seagrave Fire Appartus) (304)685-6803 Sutphen

[Paco383]

I wish we had a Seagrave or Pierce, but KME does well for us.
1998 KME Custom, 1000gal. tank, 2000gpm pump, 30gal. foam tank.

[esfmmk]

every truck will have its problems mosty I think its personal preferance. We have Eones, seagraves, LTI, Pierce and we've had issues with all of them and each of them has their good points.

If it gets you to the fire and pumps water and the ladder works properly and safely ride it the fire put it out and go back home. They don't have to be big or pritty just pump water and fly ladders

[Tanker_3]

Yea i know! Our Seagrave is scheduled to arrive by the beginning of next year. I can't wait to see it.

[JM8340]

I'd have to say KME first, with E-One following behind.

[Tanker_3]

Hey Jamie, what make is engine 2? That's a nice unit too that is behind the scenes most of the time.

[squadman]

Pierce all the way!!!!!!!!!!!

[FIREEATER]

Kme Sucks! We Have Them And Hate Them All! Electrical Problems, Broken Welds, Broken Mounts, Compartment Doors Dropping, Water Tank Supports Broken And The List Goes On And On And On. The Pump Problems Are Even Worse!

[Little Leather]

Id have to say: Pierce, Seagrave , then EONE, no offence to KME, but stands for kant make Equipment :rolleyes: lol :p

[sasquach]

Keep Mechanic Employed (KME)

[ENG62INE]

100% Pierce...

My personal opinion is Pierce however as long as the unit Runs, Does the job its mean't to do and the fire is Extinguished it shouldn't really matter...




ALL IS FINE on THE VINE

[LineMan85]

Seagrave, Pierce, spartan (4guys), sorry e-one's have the curse

[Dragerman40]

For those of you who have E-One like them or not, I need to know if you have had any problems. Minor, major and in between.

I want all info on E-ones I can get. Must be ligitimate issues.

Oakland Vol. Fire Dept.

[ENG561INE]

Hahns all the way only if they still made them...

Eagles are nothing but buzzards.....
bulldogs stay on the porch....
and
Chickens scream forever!!!!

[DONGA]

I'd have to put Pierce on the top of the list then Spartan/Saulsbury(even though you can't get one anymore) then Seagrave (even though they were very prone to "skin cancer"), and I've always thought that a Mack/Baker Aerial Scope was the chit and the 89 HAHN we run as 2nd due engine out of our house 1 was proabably the last one to roll out the gate before the company was locked down and has been one hell of an engine for us.

As far as HME and KME, if your looking for a K Mart Engine or a Home Made Engine, either will fit your needs perfectly. Just be sure your supplier has a good service policy.

[SouthsideLadderMan]

The last Hahns to roll off the line were a Pumper and Matching Telesquirt for Colgate Pennsylvania. Both Beautiful Pieces of Apparatus. It was a shame to see them go out of Service.

PG's list of Hahns:

Engine 61: 1967 Open Cab Pumper (Company 6 now defunct, pumper is privately owned and still looks great!)
E191: 1978 Hahn (No longer in Service)
E231: 1988 Hahn (Still in Service)
E261: 1990 Hahn (Still in Service)
E261 (former): 1968 Hahn (Rehabbed with a Spartan Cab, Sold to a Company in Greencastle Pa.)
Truck 26 (former): 1970 Hahn/Grove Tiller (Rehabbed with a Spartan Cab and Sold to the Bethesda Fire Department in 1996)
E281/483 (Former): 1970 Hahn Pumper (Owned by Company 28, looks GREAT!)
E282: 1987 Hahn (rehabbed and looks Great! still running)
Truck 34 (former): 1970 Hahn/Thibault Tiller (Now privately owned)
Engine 351 (former): 1971 Pumper (No longer in Service)
E401, 402 (Former): 1967 and 70 Open Cab Pumpers
E401, 402 (Current): 1987 Twin Pumpers, probably the fastest pumpers in the county.
Foam 48: 1987 Pumper (Twin to Engine 282)

As you can see, PG loved Hahn Fire Trucks..... :D
They also loved Pirsch, Maxim and Seagrave.

[engine93]

Dint Mack stop making fire trucks? Maybe that's why there is no category. Would love to see Mack's come back to my area.
Mack does still make fire trucks but not as much as they used too.

[engine93]

i would have to go with sutphen my company has two and the look pretty good for 1991's seagrave is nice but too expensive and i have always like the qualties.

[ohfrmn89]

i have been involved with depts that have had both e-ones, and seagraves. we have a mid 90's model seagrave rescue pumper which is nice. our deput chief is a seagrave dealer and brought "home" 2 demos recently from FDIC Indy that he was showing. they were pretty nice too. as far as the roto ray things go, wouldn't waste my money. the mars lights are nice, could see one in each corner, and definitely has to have the Q.

[hey bub]

Eng62ine, just curious about the specs of the engine. Year, make, gallons, seating and pump size. Nice rig btw. Does your station have a web site? Thanks

[Deuce Engine]

Mack does still make fire trucks but not as much as they used too.

There are still some Mack cab & chassis being used in fire service applications, but Mack does not build complete fire apparatus any longer.

[Quacker]

What about the old favorates, "Pirsch" and "Maxim" . Peter J. Pirsch and Sons made very outstanding fire appparatus for years. Also Maxim was an outstanding make as well.

[axeboy6]

Ahrens Fox, then Mack. Damn this alzheimers.

[NEFCfirefighter]

Seagrave Is The Best Hands Down!

[mohican]

You can still get a Mack chassis with somebody else's body on it. See plenty of MR's, and even a handful of Granites out there lately.

As for the poll....Spartan is only a chassis manufacturer, and Luverne is only bodywork, as is Central States. So, technically, you could add Mack and Saulsbury to even things out. And, don't forget E-One.

Me, I like almost all of 'em, but if you're gonna hold a gun to my head and make me pick one, I gotta go with Pierce. :D

Actually Spartan makes "complete" apparatus under the Crimson Fire banner.

[Shrek]

Sutphen hands down sorry guys gotta love them just look at Orlando Florida that just about all they have i think seagraves are alittle overated too many of them out there not alot of Sutphens on the road anymore whats up with that Engine 33 on ladder 49 is an older sutphen see they're movie stars.

[CFD543]

Well, I always say that if it does the job..................


But i've always been partial to Sutphen, myself. I Grew up Around Fire Department with our 1990 Sutphen/Imperial/Pemfab Bastard Pumper :P (And Twin Diamond Reo Pumper/Tankers, but that's for another thread!)

And our 1989 Sutphen 95 foot Tower Ladder.

Neither Rig has had any real serious problems since we've purchased 'em. Yet, the 2001 KME Engine. my Company Purchased in 2001 has failed multiple times, since being put in service......Only problem i ever with the Sutphen Pumper was the ten man cab, 4 SCBA Seats(In Rear Cab) arrangement.

KME = Krazy Midgets Everywhere

[Engine4Member]

Hey folks, I am looking for a Mars 888 light avatar.

Can any one be of assistance?

Thanks.


:D

[ff7408]

I like the old style American LaFrance. Pre 1970's with the round nose and a manul trans. not the automatics they have now. real men drive stick.

[21Truck]

Well, I always say that if it does the job..................


But i've always been partial to Sutphen, myself. I Grew up Around Fire Department with our 1990 Sutphen/Imperial/Pemfab Bastard Pumper :P (And Twin Diamond Reo Pumper/Tankers, but that's for another thread!)

And our 1989 Sutphen 95 foot Tower Ladder.

Neither Rig has had any real serious problems since we've purchased 'em. Yet, the 2001 KME Engine. my Company Purchased in 2001 has failed multiple times, since being put in service......Only problem i ever with the Sutphen Pumper was the ten man cab, 4 SCBA Seats(In Rear Cab) arrangement.

KME = Krazy Midgets Everywhere


If you guys had nothing but problems with them why did you buy a new pumper tanker from KME...lol. As with some people I agree Hahns were a great truck. the co. I grew up around had a hahn engine and it was a work horse..had a long history too. Only truck i know that went for refurb and was damaged to all hell in a fire at the factory and still went ahead and refurbed and came back better then before. I've worked with KME trucks since a neighboring dept has em and they suck badly...nothing but junk. My dept had a KME tanker and it didnt last long Seagrave is a great truck but it is pricy but the quality is there. Sutphens I'm not fond of after seeing one at a show last year, the quality just doesnt look to be there like it should. I'm very fond of pierce becasue it's all we run. Very good quality and a long lasting truck.

But everyone has to remember no matter where you get a truck form it will have its problems in one shape or another, eventhough some a lot more then others. if it does the job and works well for you more power to you

[SMOKE DIVER]

The department that Im with has had Pierce as long I have knowledge of, last year we went out on a limb and ordered a Seagrave. The truck committee has made two trips to Seagrave, April 7th and 8th and the final inspection will be on April 26th 27th. When you think of Seagrave I thought of a huge operation, it was totaly opposite from that, don't get me wrong it is a big company. The fact that it is a small operation compared to the industry is a plus, for the craftmanship that you will get which I feel is second to none. It is human nature if it is small and simple you can pay attention to detail easier. The first trip that we took to Seagrave was memorable the people at Seagrave were the most hospitable all the way from the CEO Jim Hebe to trade worker on the shop floor. The plus that Seagrave had was the CEO has great business sense and knowledge about the industry that he is a part of. When we were there on our firs trip we had dinner with Jim Hebe, which first of all impressive to a little volunteer department from West Virginia we were treated with just as much respect as they would FDNY that has a piece in production year round. The thing that intrigued me the most was that how the apparatus were built from raw steel and sole crafted by hand by a bunch of very skilled trades workers. My hat is off to the people in the factory at Seagrave we in the fire service thank you. The people in the front office realy no fire trucks and have the people riding in the trucks in mind. When you are specing out a truck they are more interested at what you want and how they can accomodate you, and not what option thay can give you to make the company money. I cant wait to make the final trip to Seagrave next week to see our first Seagrave and not our last. We ordered a 2005 Marauder, Split Tilt, Rescue Body, 1750 gpm pump, 1000 gal tank, 233" wheel base. If you would like to see it you can goto WWW.STARCITYVFD.COM. Goto media, apparatus, Engine 203. When you are looking for a new apparatus give Seagrave a chance we almost made the mistake and didn't, i'm glad we did. Remember you get what you pay for.

Jeff Quinn
Assistant Chief
Star City VFD
Star City , West Virginia
WWW.STARCITYVFD.COM

[Caddy Miller]

The department that Im with has had Pierce as long I have knowledge of, last year we went out on a limb and ordered a Seagrave. The truck committee has made two trips to Seagrave, April 7th and 8th and the final inspection will be on April 26th 27th. When you think of Seagrave I thought of a huge operation, it was totaly opposite from that, don't get me wrong it is a big company. The fact that it is a small operation compared to the industry is a plus, for the craftmanship that you will get which I feel is second to none. It is human nature if it is small and simple you can pay attention to detail easier. The first trip that we took to Seagrave was memorable the people at Seagrave were the most hospitable all the way from the CEO Jim Hebe to trade worker on the shop floor. The plus that Seagrave had was the CEO has great business sense and knowledge about the industry that he is a part of. When we were there on our firs trip we had dinner with Jim Hebe, which first of all impressive to a little volunteer department from West Virginia we were treated with just as much respect as they would FDNY that has a piece in production year round. The thing that intrigued me the most was that how the apparatus were built from raw steel and sole crafted by hand by a bunch of very skilled trades workers. My hat is off to the people in the factory at Seagrave we in the fire service thank you. The people in the front office realy no fire trucks and have the people riding in the trucks in mind. When you are specing out a truck they are more interested at what you want and how they can accomodate you, and not what option thay can give you to make the company money. I cant wait to make the final trip to Seagrave next week to see our first Seagrave and not our last. We ordered a 2005 Marauder, Split Tilt, Rescue Body, 1750 gpm pump, 1000 gal tank, 233" wheel base. If you would like to see it you can goto WWW.STARCITYVFD.COM. Goto media, apparatus, Engine 203. When you are looking for a new apparatus give Seagrave a chance we almost made the mistake and didn't, i'm glad we did. Remember you get what you pay for.

Jeff Quinn
Assistant Chief
Star City VFD
Star City , West Virginia
WWW.STARCITYVFD.COM
Well, how did your "final" go? Do you have your rig? Post a picture.

[TruckCo69]

No Grumman? No Simon-Duplex? No Mack? Ya gotta stick with the old style trucks.

[Incident]

Since I've been in the service, I have personally been on FMCs, Luvernes, Seagraves, Pierces, ALFs, Saulsburys, and Hanhs. The old Seagraves were awesome, if you didn't snap the axle (1st in my book). Luvernes are nice, but have a tendency to build too big (4th). Pierces are nice, but are getting pricey and have limited room in back(2nd). The Hahns felt like coffins (dead last). The ALFs fell apart (next to last). The Saulsburys were nice, ran a close third. The FMC was unique and had personality, but was very limited in production at the time.
Overall the Seagraves take it for longevity and quality. I caught the newest one in Harford County, MD (Check out the Apparatus page there). It's currently the only one running there but that may change. Nice looking piece and the initial quality appears to be there. VERY interactive dealer and production facility. A neighboring company has two that have had minimal problems. And I loved the old ones....Nothing like open cabs and tailboards...

[GhostRider]

Old ALF's and Graves are tops on the list. But if I have to say what is my fav I have to go with a 95' FWD Baker Aerialscope. Rides like a Caddy and is a true work horse.

[master180t]

We run all ferrara pumpers they work great ride awsome and are fast and havent had any big problems

[TheGame]

e-one anybody?

[patchmaster39]

I like e-ones. My personal experience has been on the positive side. However I grew up on Mack and I still love to see the old Model L,B and C. I guess I am getting old.

[Detailed Medic]

Seagraves, Macks, Pierces, and Hahns are my favs. No thanks to E-Ones, Spartans, Luvernes, Crimsons, Duplex, Grummans, KME, Ferraras.

[sasquach]

Just remember Jim Hebe is also the guy that killed American LaFrance .So how long do you think he is going to keep Seagrave alive ?

[DALINE]

Well Pierce are more Faster and longer lasting. ALF are more of your luxary type of fire Apparatus. E-ones are Electrical Nightmares. Seagraves are Another good Apparatus company there Apparatus is legendary and the best of the best. then the rest of the Apparatus companies are like :p nope...

[SuperTICK]

1. Seagrave
2. Mack
3. Pirsch
4. Hahn
5. Maxim

Fuck a Pierce of Shit, an E-Junk, a K-Mart Engineering or a Screw-Verne.

[mohican]

Well Pierce are more Faster and longer lasting. ALF are more of your luxary type of fire Apparatus. E-ones are Electrical Nightmares. Seagraves are Another good Apparatus company there Apparatus is legendary and the best of the best. then the rest of the Apparatus companies are like :p nope...

pierce are more faster?
does this make them more gooder?

so would a pierce with a 400 hp ISL cummins outrun, say a seagrave with a 500hp series 60 detroit? cuz they are faster :rolleyes:

or is pierce faster because they haven't figured out the electronics to govern a modern diesel engine :D

[RE Eater]

1. Seagrave
2. Hahn
3. Pirsch

[MF23RD]

Pierce, it's the only way to go!
I also like Segrave, gotta like FDNY styling!

Hate KME

[MF23RD]

Seagrave sorry missed a letter!

[SmokeEater77]

I bet more people would like to forget E-One's than those who like them.

I know I for one am tired of people around here trying to swear by EONE, they say they wont use anything else, as EONE has served them well for the last 30 years.

If they haven't tried the rest, they can't claim its the best.

I am not all that partial to any one mfg, as long as the truck is built to fit the area its in, I like smeal, pierce, american lafrance and KME

but you won't ever catch me on a mercedes truck

[SMOKE DIVER]

Seagrave is a top notch Manufacture. We puchased a 2005 Marauder for our department, it was the best move we made. You will not find a group of people that build fire eqipment, that take more pride in what they send out the door. The people at Seagrave still use today equipment that they used to build Jeeps for WW II to build the apparatus going up and down the road. The craftsmanship that they display is above the rest. There is no such thing as a cookie cutter Fire Truck at Seagrave, every appratus is one of a kind if you want it they wiil find a way. The fact that FDNY prefers Seagrave should tell you something, that they are the best on the market. I belong to a VFD in West Virginia, WV has been 75-80% Pierce, we went out on a limb and purchased a Seagrave it was the best move we made. If you are in the market for a new Apparatus please give them a chance. "You get what you pay for!"

[Backstep]

E-One = Junk

Pierces are good for the County Depts. but we have 6 of them in the city and they are always O.O.S. for warrany work. Pierces just fall apart when subjected to the abuse of a city fire dept.

HAHN - THE BEST THERE EVER WAS. They would still be making state of the art fire apparatus if the former Mrs. Hahn had not been a bitch and taken her husband to court to get half the company as part of her divorce demands.

Seagrave - Currently the only intelligent choice for a big city department

Mack - Gone, but not forgotten!

[PAFD911]

1. Mack

2. Pierce

3. Hahn

[firemanjoe]

I am a fan of Pierce. I allso think sparten Crimson is ok. We have one as our tanker and i like the truck. There are some electrical proplems that were fixed. But there is nothing better then our old school 92 pierce arrow. That thing will kick the shit out of the 99 pierce saper. My last department had KME I liked them but all fire trucks break down.

[firefighter1988]

SUTPHEN im my number 1 pic

[RESQ713]

Does anyone know much about SVI. My department is in the process of ordering a new Rescue-Pumper from them, and I'm just wondering what experience others have had.

[FiremanJoeJCCFD]

I have 1 brand in mind for our next truck KME. Our 1991 KME was bought used from a paid deparment back in 03 and boy i have been here for allmost a year and that truck takes shit. every call its pumping for 2 hours and wont stop it wants to work. KME is really building a good truck. We have a few old macks in the county that work hard too but a truck coming out of being paid and working great is un heard of.

[ffdtruck16]

overall best chassis is Spartan, but best truck overall it has to be Seagrave only because Spartan does not build their own complete truck. And yes I realize Crimson builds Spartan's and is a Spartan company, but the truck is still built by a 3rd party. Pierce's are way over priced and don't look or perform any better than any other truck.

[Deuce Engine]

And yes I realize Crimson builds Spartan's and is a Spartan company, but the truck is still built by a 3rd party.

Spartan owns Crimson, and Spartan is the cab and chassis manufacturer. There isn't a third-party involved, unless you want to count HME in Wyoming, MI, who builds a number of cabs for Spartan (and countless other manufacturers).

[capn294]

Well Pierce are more Faster and longer lasting. ALF are more of your luxary type of fire Apparatus. E-ones are Electrical Nightmares. Seagraves are Another good Apparatus company there Apparatus is legendary and the best of the best. then the rest of the Apparatus companies are like :p nope...

its the engine INSIDE the rig that makes it go faster... not the magical pierce dust they sprinkle on it before delivery! SEAGRAVE ALL THE WAY, when you look at magazines with all the used rigs, you never see a newer seagrave being sold, but you see newer pierces, e-1's, ferrera's, and the list goes on!

[OrangeHelmet4]

PIERCE!!!!! It is the only way to go. Out of all the rigs I have been around in my life, I can say hands down I like pierce the most. It is the cadillac of fire trucks.

[on rope]

joe -

check out www.firefighterclosecalls.com about the kme aerial problems :eek:



I have 1 brand in mind for our next truck KME. Our 1991 KME was bought used from a paid deparment back in 03 and boy i have been here for allmost a year and that truck takes shit. every call its pumping for 2 hours and wont stop it wants to work. KME is really building a good truck. We have a few old macks in the county that work hard too but a truck coming out of being paid and working great is un heard of.

[EMT/FF99]

NIOSH Releases Aerial Ladder Advisory Following Pennsylvania LODD (http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=59431)

NIOSH recommends that all fire departments utilizing aerial ladder trucks with locking (pin-anchored, lever actuated, clamped) waterways immediately take the following actions to reduce the risk of fire fighters being struck by unsecured waterways or parts of the waterway:


Ensure that Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) and/or Guidelines (SOGs) on setting up multi-position waterways include steps to properly position the waterway and to inspect and verify that the locking mechanism (anchoring pin(s), lever, clamps, etc.) are properly installed and functioning as designed before pressurizing the waterway.
Properly train and practice the correct method of securing waterways and verifying they are secured (per manufacturer's recommendations).

NIOSH is currently investigating an April 8, 2008 firefighter line-of-duty-death that illustrates that adhering to manufacturer recommended set-up procedures for aerial ladder operations is paramount to ensuring fire fighter safety.

Preliminary findings in this investigation suggest that some equipment designs do not provide secondary stops for the waterway on aerial ladders. Thus, failure to properly secure the waterway in the proper position can lead to catastrophic waterway failure and possible serious or fatal injury to fire fighters working in the area. The pin-anchored waterway design involved in this particular investigation is not limited to a single model or apparatus manufacturer. NIOSH is aware of at least 7 similar incidents that occurred in Delaware, Michigan, New Jersey, Texas, Virginia and Ontario without serious injury. Newer aerial ladder trucks may incorporate different types of anchoring mechanisms and/or a more fail-safe design but proper set up still needs to be verified before operation.

Circumstances of incident under investigation by NIOSH On April 8, 2008, a volunteer Deputy Fire Chief (the Incident Commander), was killed when struck by a motorized water monitor and 30 feet of aluminum pipe that was "launched" off an elevated aerial ladder at a fire at an industrial manufacturing plant in Pennsylvania. The truck was normally transported in the "rescue mode" with the monitor pinned to the second section of ladder so that the waterway would not be in the way if the ladder was set up for rescue operations. At the incident scene, when the waterway was pressurized, the monitor and its support bracket, along with the last 30-foot section of pipe were "launched" off the aerial ladder by the force of the water pressure in the pipe. The monitor flew approximately 75 feet and fell, striking the Incident Commander on the head, killing him instantly. After the incident, the anchor pin was found on the ground, in front of the truck's cab. The waterway did not include any secondary mechanical stops to prevent the separation of the water monitor in the event the anchoring pin was not properly seated. The NIOSH Fire Fighter Fatality Investigation and Prevention Program is currently investigating this incident and a full report will be available at a later date.

NIOSH would like to bring this information to the attention of all U.S. fire departments and fire fighters who operate or work around aerial ladder trucks with locking (pin-anchored, lever actuated, clamped) waterways so that future occurrences of waterway monitor "launches" or the unexpected movement of the waterway monitor can be prevented. If secondary mechanical stops are present, the unexpected impact of the waterway monitor against the mechanical stop could cause structural damage to the aerial ladder and jeopardize the safety of any fire fighter standing on the aerial ladder. While not a contributing factor in the fatal incident, NIOSH reminds fire departments to comply with relevant federal regulations and NFPA standards for fire apparatus inspections and certification.

[FiremanJoeJCCFD]

I dont like ladder trucks. We have a 1978 alf ladder truck we got donated to us a few months back and has yet to see a call because its pointless in the county because its not certifided and we dont have the water to supply mass fallow to that extent. For pumpers I would go KME because i have sceen alot of good ones and mine down here is the countys bitch truck.

[dcvfd1013]

pierce but i could go for good grumman anyday of the week.

[IAN60cap]

My station just purchased a 2008 HME 1500 gallon tank 2250 gpm pump and a 8000 watt hydraulic generator. It's our 2nd HME we also have a 1997 engine. They're built by 4-Guys Fire in Meyersdale, Pa. We couldn't be any happier with these engines.
http://www.thewatchdesk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=52414&stc=1&d=1214260569 click link to see our 2008 HME

[sfdtoto]

I am a huge fan of American LaFrance, from the 80-90's. I love the sound of the engines and just the handeling of them on the road. Although they are some kidney beaters and they ride alittle rough they are awsomeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

[dustymedic]

I've always liked Pierce, But new Ferraras Columbus just got look impressive....

[dustymedic]

I am a huge fan of American LaFrance, from the 80-90's. I love the sound of the engines and just the handeling of them on the road. Although they are some kidney beaters and they ride alittle rough they are awsomeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!


Station near me has a 2007 ALF pumper. It really rides smooth.