Slow Down

[rescue goes]

Ambulance workers threaten slowdown
(Published May 17, 2004)


By KATHRYN SINZINGER The Common Denominator
Staff Writer

An independent group of emergency medical workers is threatening a work slowdown, in violation of their union's contract, if city leaders fail to address what they say are serious problems within the District's ambulance service.

The workers, calling themselves the EMS Community Outreach Committee, say the city has too few ambulances on duty, is unable to retain its paramedics and is failing to purchase critical medical supplies because they are "too expensive." And they say the deficiencies are costing people their lives.

"I couldn't explain to my family why an ambulance couldn't get there sooner," paramedic Rodney T. West told The Common Denominator, relating what happened last Dec. 26 when his grandfather died in Southeast Washington.

West said about 43 off-duty paramedics and emergency medical technicians gathered May 7 to discuss the possibility of holding a mass sick-out during Memorial Day weekend, when at least one million visitors -- including many elderly military veterans -- are expected in town for dedication of the new World War II Memorial. He said the threatened work slowdown was delayed after D.C. City Council members pledged to take action on their concerns.

Councilman Kevin P. Chavous, D-Ward 7, is expected to introduce legislation on May 18 that would separate the District's Emergency Medical Service (EMS) from the Fire Department, among the group's major demands. The bill is expected to mirror language of a bill that was introduced two years ago by Councilwoman Carol Schwartz, R-At Large, but failed to come up for a council vote. Councilwoman Kathleen Patterson, D-Ward 3, has scheduled a hearing before the council's Committee on the Judiciary, which she chairs, for June 2 to publicly air the concerns of paramedics and emergency medical technicians.



Copyright 2004, The Common Denominator

[HOOKMAN]

they cant get there anytime soon cuz most are hangin at the hospitals killin time...mass sick out..hmmm isnt that everyday....why is memorial day going to be any different....thats why the firefighters are having to man the shit box more and more everytime we come to work. if they just took the calls and transported them and do the same thing over and over they wouldnt have anything to complain about.the fire engine has to run the same calls too but u never hear engine 32 come up on chan 13 and take the call or go out of service do you...dont people research jobs anymore before they get hired. if its so bad quit and go work at ben's chili bowl. you knew ur benefits and all sucked before hand so why whine and cry now and put the citizens at risk of not getting a ambulance. :confused:

[E.A.P.]

I agree with hookman, they knew what they were getting into when they got hired. F##k them. get another job

[TCosgroveJones]

It absolutely amazes me that anyone would think of having a slowdown on Memorial Day Weekend. The weekend when this Country finally Honors those individuals , still living and those that gave their lives for the Freedoms ,I think, we all take for granted. This day has been a longtime coming. It will be an emotionally charged weekend for the Vets and their families that are going to attend it.
The age makeup of the Vets that are attending make this a Super Medical Local waiting to happen. If one VET dies during the dedication of the Memorial and the EMS employees stage a sickout, don't you think its going to be world wide news that the employees of the EMS division are loads??
I know that there are plenty of good people of the EMS division that will come to work and due their job to the best of their ablities. Its gonna be a few of Mr. Lyons followers that are going to give this City a black eye if the work action takes place.
Sure things are not all rosy but don't take it out on those that fought and died and those that still live with the scars of WWII etched into their memories, that have given us the rights that we enjoy. Wait untill June the 2nd and let the City Council sort it out.
Just my 2 cents worth.
T. Cosgrove Jones

[HOOKMAN]

Well Said. These Vets Have Been In The City Since Last Week And This Weekend Belongs To Them & With The Dedication Of The Ww 2 Memorial It Makes This Weekend That More Special To These People As Old As They Are Now, But Fought For Our Country When Many Of Us Werent Even Born. So When U Think U Have It So Bad With Your Job As U Arrive Into The City On Your Way To Your Station Just Look At The Guy Sleeping On Sidewalk Or Covered In Blankets On A Bench And Say To Yourself " How Bad Do I Really Have It".

[LETTHEWATERGO]

I Agree With U Hookman

[BMIG]

I agree where you all are coming from, but just for the sake of discussion let me take it here.


So are we to assume that ems operations are supposed to change because of a dedication of a memorial? Why can't the vets be subject to the same enviroment(ems operations) that those who live and work here everyday be subject to(ems operations)?

So are we suggesting that ems ops do the right thing for a weekend and then go back to the same old, same old?


So to hookman et al I guess there will be no grumbling when it's time to take an ambulance detail?

[Rekindle]

I know of quite a few depts from outside of the DC area that are bringing units to help with the memorial, have recently been told that they may be running calls in the city to 'cover'. Got to love it ...

[TCosgroveJones]

BMIG
I think you got it wrong :rolleyes: What I'm saying is sure your gonna have the usual ones that call in Sick cause they got an ingrown toe nail, or EAL cause they got to go shopping and get the Memorial Day Holiday Sales Specials. But how about the sheep that are gonna follow the EMS Community Outreach Committee's suggestion to call in sick or whatever and attempt to disrupt the weekend. The VET's are gonna get regular DC EMS Service. As a matter of Fact they will now probably get better service due to the fact all of the County Units that are going to be in town :) .
My 2 cents again. Cosgrove :D

[HOOKMAN]

well BMIG to answer your ? no i wont like it when mine turn comes to do my shitbox detail, but when it happens i wont complain and ill make the best of it. i will also listen to my radio so when my unit is dispatched on a run i will status my deck and respond in a timely manner and i vow also not to be caught at the pentagon city mall either :rolleyes: and tho i know many ems workers were hired on the fireside( god forbid any of them were the slackers that did there job half assed) and some have been canned there are many gaps on the eab side therefore the detailing of fireman to the ambulance is the solution to cover there rest of the units. but the fireside i believe has wanted to take over the ems side for years and it has finally come.. part of the reason is the lack of accountabilty on the ems side for the ones that dont like to answer there radio when there unit is dispatched so now with the eab people having to answer to the station captain or whoever is incharge i can guarentee you that if u dont take your runs or do ur job half assed u can spend a hour or so at the computer typing a special report at the end of ur shift. other than that i cant wait for my first run on the ambulance i bet its gonna be a snot slingin call like a code 3 syncopal or a headache :eek: see ya

[WeaselHunter]

Since the EAB doesn't seem to want to do their job this weekend we have the possibility to have mandatory overtime.... For people that are trying to get the public and even the fire sides respect, they are sure going about it the wrong way.....

[SquirrelGirl]

The latest:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20040527-103628-1491r.htm

[BMIG]

This is comical. The best part of it...this entertainment is free. :D

How much understanding do you need to have to make sure people, do a 54, wash the unit, check the fluids, stock the unit, have adequate O2, stand watch, help clean the station, etc,etc.

I know they aren't relying on Kevin Chavous to help them out. This is the same guy who is chairman of the education committee on the city council and you see where the school system is going. He and the school board are a having a time finding a sucker I mean superintendent to come here.

Lyons should know that if he wants to his issue to be heard, he needs to have an ear on capitol hill. And that takes money.

[SkyMedic]

Its all very unfortunate. The medics and emt folks that do a good job deserve benefits equal to fire/police and some sort of security that they will work for good managment and have good coworkers. Do any of you have a clue as to whats its like to be a good medic and be permanently assigned with a slacker partner that nobody will do anything about, no support from supervisors. All they say is " we put them with you so nothing bad will happen, deal with it".

I hope there will come a time when folks see how hard good ems workers really do work. Strikes and such aint gonna do it, it will just make them all look bad, bad and bad. I say they continue with the current agenda of crossovers. Those who love firefighting can do the PEC thing, those who dont can stay on the box. Through crossovers some slackers will make it to the T/A but prob wont survive the first year on probation, so dont worry.

[HOOKMAN]

Well said sky medic....not all ems workers are slackers and those that are shouldnt speak for the ones that do there job. im sure a dead beat partner on the box will wear you out before the calls do. no matter what job your in you always will fight for better benefits...maybe you all need a new local president if he's not getting the job done or maybe he is and things arent getting accomplished. i know if i get stuck with one of these slackers that wants to waste time at the hospital or hit in service as they pull onto the ramp at the firehouse i wont have a problem letting my superiors know or telling communications that im ready for service but i cant find my partner :D keep up the good work sky medic hopefully oneday it will all work out :rolleyes:

[Mike Ward]

Two EMS workers fired for protest

By Matthew Cella
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

D.C. officials served two emergency medical workers with termination papers after they reported to work out of uniform — a stern warning to others planning a "uniform strike" during this weekend's National World War II Memorial Reunion.

"It's not our policy to publicly discuss personnel matters," said Alan Etter, spokesman for the D.C. fire department. But "certain actions were reviewed, and the appropriate corrective measures were taken."

Kenneth Lyons, president of the American Federation of Government Employees Local 3721, which represents the city's medics, said he was aware of the terminations, but he could not comment because the medics were appealing the decisions.
The termination orders Thursday came the same day Chief Adrian H. Thompson issued a special order reminding employees that it is illegal to participate in "any form of work stoppage" and that anyone who did could be "subject to termination."

Instead of wearing their regulation blue, button-up shirts, the medics want to hold a symbolic protest by arriving for work in blue T-shirts bearing the name of their union and the acronym "DCEMS" — for District of Columbia Emergency Medical Services.

However, agency officials said that if medics arrive without uniforms, they will not be allowed to staff ambulances on a day when an estimated 150,000 visitors — many of them elderly — are expected to attend the dedication of the newest monument on the Mall.

"Each action will be evaluated on an individual basis, and if someone refuses a direct order they could be subject to disciplinary action," Mr. Etter said.
He said termination could be among the possibilities.

The idea for the uniform strike was conceived Wednesday, the day after the two medics were sent home for reporting to work without uniforms.

Other medics decided to use the tactic to protest an order Chief Thompson issued last week altering the command structure of the department, putting civilian medics under the supervision of uniformed fire department officers at the engine houses to which they are assigned.

Mr. Lyons objected to the order, which takes effect tomorrow, saying fire officials lack enough understanding of emergency medical care to supervise medics. He said yesterday that he encouraged medics to wear the union T-shirts but that they should change if so ordered.

Mr. Lyons has endorsed a bill that would establish an emergency medical services department separate from the fire department. D.C. Council member Kevin P. Chavous, Ward 7 Democrat, introduced the bill to the council last week. Similar legislation was introduced in 2001, but it never came up for a vote.

Council member Kathy Patterson, Ward 3 Democrat and chairman of the Judiciary Committee that oversees the fire department, will hold an oversight hearing Wednesday to address the medics' issues.

[SkyMedic]

I hope they dont get fired, they are two of the best medics on that shift with lots of good experience behind them. Besides, you just cant fire somebody that has a clean record. Everything nowdays is about proggressive discipline, you have to have multiple infractions for similar offenses. How many times do you see members of both FFD and EAB in partial uniform wearing innapropriate shirts, caps, sneakers, etc. Or tee/button shirts not tucked in, that actually seems more the norm on both sides. Typicaly nobody does anything about it on a day to day basis, however some officers will get you, as they should.

As for FFD officers in control of EMS personel in the house, I say good, as long as they treat the EMS folks as they would their own firefighters with no double standards. And absoulutley NO medling with EMS issues, esp. ALS related stuff..Just a thought

[HOOKMAN]

Sky good points but from talking to some officers (unless the officer just happens to be a medic which there are a few) i think they will be handling the issues of the unit being staffed, being on time & answering the calls. i dont think u will see any officers say to a medic on the scene " well i think u should use a 16g instead of a 20g :p . it will be more of a accountablity issue for the ones like u said like to slack on the job. they now will have someone to answer to when they dont take there calls and get placed out of service etc......sounds like u do ur job well and i doubt u would have any probems.

[Loo for life]

As an Officer in the DCFD I will treat all employees the same, as for meddling in EMS stuff please Sky medic and whoever else, do not think for one minute that Kenny Lyons espousing that that Firemen or Officers have no idea what they are doing is a fact of life.

1. I have been an EMT for over 25 years, I have both training and experience in that field

2. My first concern of the day for all of my workers is that they show up prior to shift change in the proper work uniform and of full faculties, ready to assume the duties of the day.

3. I ensure all my subordinates know there job, role and function in the running of our shift and the fire department.

4. I will not tell a medic about patient care, what drugs to push or when to convert etc.. but everyother part of his job is my concern. I can also tell when a medic is a lazy P.O.S. just as I can tell if a Fireman is a sorry P.O.S. Really no extra training required.

5. If all personnel show up for work they are treated the same and in most case they will find this out fast, come to work with a tude and you will also find out what happens fast.

6. All firemen are taught EMS by EMS instructors does that mean that those instructors are not teaching the same way to all employees, hhhmmm food for thought ehh.

7. Firefighter-EMT's are the first to arrive on most incidents they obtain all the necessary patient info, initiate patient care, perform all the necessary EMS requisites and then pass the the info and patient off to the BLS or ALS transport providers (usually carrying the patient to the unit for the provider) so at what point do they not know how to provide proper patient care to our citizens, visitors and workers of the District of Columbia... WE ARE THE FIRST TO RESPOND AND THE FIRST TO ARRIVE ON 90% OF ALL EMERGENCIES IN THE CITY, Please don't anyone ever forget that!

Finally, Under the new transition they will be treated as they say they wanted to be treated all along ** the same as the firemen ** but that means they must adhere to the rules of the Department just as the firemen have too! NO MOR NO LESS!!!

maybe just maybe if there Union leadership would quit crying and poisoning the well, this could be a smooth and beneficial transition for EMS and FIRE.

Enuff for now...

You know me feel free to take your best shot!

[SkyMedic]

Loo, I cannot speak to the possible difference in instruction from EMS training to Firemen, I usually tried to stay very far from the school as not to become tainted. They have some very capable instructors there, but they are primarly tied up with medic stuff(recert, p-class, etc).

As for the union, they should have been fighting for ret/benefits and just not have been as concerned about the stupid sunday pay and hazard pay. I would rather my union have been more interested in the long term rather than the right now. Who gives a sh*t if you make a little less, I would rather be taken care of in retirment( I believe the fire/police check comes every month till death, then to your wife), not a bad deal if you do the math.

The big thing that concerns me, and I dont know why cause Im gone, is the fact that somebody who likes being a paramedic only cannot just be a paramedic and enjoy the same perks as fire/police. I am willing to go to the school and be a fire/medic because I would enjoy it, but some that are good at their jobs wouldnt. All in all, its a pretty typical mess for the DC government. Stay safe everyone.

[BMIG]

I'm watching the council hearings right now and it has been quite interesting.
This one female emt just got finished calling out officers names. :eek:

All this emotion about going separate service and the one thing those clowns forgot was. How much is it going to cost? Not one person from ems has come on with a dollar amount it will cost to operate ems separately.

After watching this if it hasn't gotten bad already it's going to.

Councilwoman Schwartz just stated that if she is injured she does not want a firefighter. Hmmm, little does she know if she is injured she doesn't want some of those medics working on her either.

[TCosgroveJones]

Dam
Did they mention my name???? :confused: :D

[BMIG]

TC, no you weren't mentioned. Just a couple over there at 30 engine.

I thought this hearing was supposed to be about separating ems from the fire dept? From what I saw it looked to be a hearing to bash local 36 and to whine about how bad f/f's treat the ems folk.

This one female emt even had the nerve to complain about her power shift unit going 24 hrs. That she was single parent and it wasn't fair blah,blah,blah. Like she is the only single parent on the job.

Like I said before not one person from ems came forward with any information on why separating ems from the dept would benefit the dept,themselves, or the city. Every testimony was on a personal level.

[SkyMedic]

It would be horrendously expensive to start from the ground up. And a large chunk of that money would come from FFD, I bet.

[Brooks]

The busy urban Public Utility Model system 100 miles down the road a bit requires about $2.5M a year from the city plus what they can collect from insurance. DC is 2.2X busier and 1.4X more expensive so figure $7.7M a year from DC plus what they can collect.

Start up costs wouldn't be too much, the District of Columbia already owns a bunch of ambulances and buildings. Maybe $12-$13M for infrastructure changes.

L3721 better be careful what it wishes for, these numbers aren't "horrendously expensive".

[SkyMedic]

Brooks you are right, Richmond is successful. Keep in mind though that the salaries are dirt. Me and some other new medics I was friends with looked at going there to get some experience about 6 years ago till we were told it would pay about $9.00/hr. We wouldnt have been able to get by, even together. It hasnt changed a whole lot I believe. In order to hold medics around here you need to pay at least $20/hr and have great benefits, otherwise they will just stay till the next good thing comes along. So it would prob be more expensive than you originaly thought.



P.S, You can tell from my previous postings I am not a 3721 radical, I in fact dont care for their ways or their agenda.

[Brooks]

Last I heard, Richmond was having trouble hiring and keeping medics, if so, this fact will raise salaries there faster than any negotiating team. As of now, RAA is still in business, so they must have found some people to work for them. I doubt that high turnover really bothers them.

I had accounted for a 40% increase in labor costs in DC, assume RAA/RM now starts at $10/h and we need a 100% increase in labor costs to keep medics here: that pushes the annual cost up to $10.8M + collections, but doesn't much affect the initial costs. Also, if DC starting paying twice what richmond paid, and had the same hiring standards, just about every medic in richmond would make the commute.

It seems to me that here, for medics, working conditions and managment issues have more of an effect than pay.

[SkyMedic]

You are correct, I had no issue with the money I was making at the time. I was mostly concerned with the fact that it topped out at like 55k year with little or no hope of advancment, no retirement to speak of and 3721 fighting for a bunch of crap I really could have cared less about. Couple that with being stuck with the wicked witch of M-10 and no help from the boss as far as getting away from her and it was time to go. I really did like my job though and may be back on a wagon near you.

[Kobersteen]

From what I saw it looked to be a hearing to bash local 36 and to whine about how bad f/f's treat the ems folk.

I don't know any EMS person worth their weight in salt in DCFD that was treated bad, as a general rule, by the fire side.

When I started, I heard how badly the fire side treated the EMS side at E-6, E-10 and others. I had the honor of working at both of those tradition steeped houses (E-6 far more than E-10), along with E-1, E-3, E-8, E-12, E-14, E-19, E-24 & E-31, and after doing some housework, helping to wash the rigs, showing an interest (and keeping my trap shut) in drills, helping with dinner (cooking, eating and cleaning up), and not sitting in the easy chair crashed-out, I can plainly say that I was treated quite well by the fire side at all of those houses. There were one of two people that still wouldn't give me a sideways glance, but strangely enough, they all had less than 5 years on the job.

My point is this, in my year on the EMS side of DCFD I saw a number of providers that I would trust with my, and my families, life (both ALS and BLS; both EAB and Fire) and I also saw a number of providers that I cannot even begin to work with (both ALS and BLS; both EAB and Fire). I forged a number of very good friendships with people who realized that whatever apparatus takes them to the scene (Engine, Truck, Squad, HazMat, Ambulance, Medic, Rapid Unit and even Air unit), they have a job to do and the job is not about them, it's about the service that they provide.

I still maintain, that DCEMS would be a great side job! I learned a tremendous amount from those I had the privilege of working with and working on. It has made me a better firefighter, a better paramedic and a better person.

People still find it amazing that I pushed more Narcan than D50 while working in DC.

Anyway... carry on.

JK

[Loo for life]

Are you typing this from the Starboard? :cool:

You did not take into account that the EMS side has a manning factor of 100% it takes 4 persons to man a 2 person unit each shift....

I also belive for every 6 Firefighters or FTE there is an OFFICER position in the firefighting division and for every 3 EMS or FTE there is a supervisor type position in the EMS Division. An yet still no discipline hhhmmm

Let this be noted that this study was done in the pre-Few years.

So it may have gotten better :D

[Brooks]

nope, not at the starboard, maybe tonight, though...

I just took the figures from the 2000 financial report of the Richmond Ambulance authority, factored in a 2.5% per annum cola for five years, a 40% cola for richmond to washington, and a 2.2x adjustment for 110,000 runs v 50,000 runs.

So, no their system wouldn't work here with the current people managing it.

[dcfdsid]

How come no one has brought up the numbers from a couple of years ago when the F/F's manned A6, 9, 10, 32. How come no one has said anything about the fact that those 4 units ran more than the rest of the units combined. How come no one has brought this up......

At this point in time, there are no Firefighters assigned to the Training Academy to teach EMS classes. Lyons keeps on trucking with his point that his members are superior and we are inferior. If that is the case, then what is he saying about his members that are training us? If there is a problem with some of our members not doing a good job, doesnt it ultimately come down to training? How come no one talks about the number of EMS employees assigned to the training academy and how many of them NO ONE CAN FIND?

Also, the other day, I was working on A30 with another firefighter and when we offered to take runs (Yes we volunteered to take runs) communications was speechless. How come EMS23 told us at Greater Southeast, "You guys need to slow down, you are making my people look stupid!"

I can personally say that I was trying to prove a point. My partner and I were trying to take every single run that we could possibly take. I wanted to try and make sure that every company that we ran with knew that there were two firefighters on the ambulance and that we tried to put them back in service as quickly as possible so that they would not miss the next run. The point is that we are FIREFIGHTERS, and along with that comes EMS. There is no seperation in my book. It is part of the job.


Maybe someone at the council hearing should have gotten an EMS shift roster and turned around and asked how many EMS employees were supposed to be working that day. Maybe the fire chief should give a portable radio to every member of the council and have them listen to channel 1, 11, and 12 for two weeks and have them document how many times they hear, "Communications to Unit XX status yourselves in service." Maybe the council should be called and notified which units are staffed with which individuals, beit 2 EMS, 2 FFS or 1+1.

I understand that we are not to involve ourselves as a whole with name calling and pointing the fingers. It makes us look small if we do. But the truth needs to be told. It needs to be put out there.


Sid
DC Firefighter 4 years
EMT 13 years
NREMT-Basic 10 years
NREMT-Intermediate since February.

[SkyMedic]

I am currentley watching the council hearings via the internet and I cant believe what I am seeing. The EMS folks do have a legit gripe as far as why cant they be medics only and have the goodies but damn, have a unified front. I have never seen a group that fights so hard to get their day in court and cannot even wear buisiness attire, speak appropriatley and have less than 30 differant agendas. Each person I have seen to this point has talked about something differant. Why dont they have a lobbyist? Where is their council? $30 a pay period times how ever many folks work EMS should buy those things. Some of the speakers that complain about how horrible the Firemen are and the system is are/were some of the most run ducking, hospital hangin, no medical knowledge offenders of the rules I saw in my time there. Only a few spoke to the major issues and spoke well they did, I think we all know who they are. Well done.

I am not totally against having a third service, you cant beat a system that has only one mission, but I feel the cost is going to be more than the city is willing to bear. I do feel the medics/emts should be able to have the same things as the fire/police but there must be accountability and some folks just need to leave. There are those that will never perform well no matter what you give them, some just do not care and its all about a paycheck.

There are pros and cons to both third service and dual role. Maybe someone should do a poll, might be interesting. I can tell you one thing though, whether they go third or dual role, they are going to need ems officers with degress that took a competitive test that can hand out discipline to slackers and make it stick..Later