The Changes

[new kid]

This fire chief will bring many changes, some good....some not so. I think we should track them and let history decide their value. This is not about criticizing every decision or bragging about the changes. Just tracking.
I will start with some well known decisions;
Canceling promotions and transfers
Ordering new patches without the US Capitol
Canceling most take home cars
Ordering a brand new $70,000 vehicle for himself

If I missed any please fell free to add. Again, just list changes. There are several other places to argue their value.

[kenzin]

I won't continually respond to the scandalous, incorrect and baseless rumors, however, before this one begins to grow anonymous legs, and for the record...the fire chief did not:
(1) cancel promotions and transfers
(2) order new patches without the US Capitol
(3) order a new $70,000 vehicle for himself...

verify before you post just to add to your own credibility.

[Greenshield]

I won't continually respond to the scandalous, incorrect and baseless rumors, however, before this one begins to grow anonymous legs, and for the record...the fire chief did not:
(1) cancel promotions and transfers
(2) order new patches without the US Capitol
(3) order a new $70,000 vehicle for himself...

verify before you post just to add to your own credibility.

Thanks for clearing the air Chief. I have been one to get sucked in on a few rumors.

[HOOKMAN]

Great thread New Kid....what other rumors are you tracking..I think you could be the first one on here to have a Dopplar Radar for rumors...good job!

[Hydro Engineer]

Well I have not missed a day of work since the new chief started and the only change I have seen is some people can't take government vehicles home. Other then that people are Assuming a lot. Don't cry about rumors just do your duties.:cool:

[Loo for life]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD..... again everyone take a deep breath!!! This sum bitch never even had a day in office before the rumor mill started to grind out shit, that being said...

Every FC has his own personal sticking points...Most of his have been on the books (whether they make sense or not) he didn't just place them there in two weeks...or at all for that matter!

Think hard before posting things, that if you really took the time and thought about them would they really make any sense???

Wow just 2 weeks in office he got 70k to buy a new chief's buggy... Huh really seriously if he can do that we are in good shape and we are not! Oh wait the last admin spent money it didn't have hhmmm... :rolleyes:
We can't even get warranty work completed on our apparatus in a timely fashion much less spare parts, oil changed due to a lack of money oh yeah it is his fault he has been here 2 weeks...

Take home cars (some of those granted in the last admin were senseless) if it is a choice to limit take homes to save money or have a boots on the ground FTE's take a hit, then sorry all you car take home guys you lose!!


Look this administration is going to do things that you, I and we will think is some simple shit... but for the love of everything holy the last administration did the same. Unless you were looking at them through rose colored glasses! Why with him is this a major crisis cause you all think you know what he is and isn't going to do! He is far from stupid (that is good and bad):confused: and remember people grow as we get older, well most of you do some of us just can't seem too!!

I am sure that he knows that if we do go back to the most recent "old patch" there needs to be a grace period for guys to transition over! He is not a village idiot, he knows guys spent their own money to meet what was gonna be the new patch under the old admin... even the old admin knew it was gonna take time to transition from "old" to "new" and were allowing for it! Does this sound confusing to anyone but me:D

Thanks needed this vent time cause if everyone would RELAX, we will see what is really, truly coming down the road and if it is a problem we can make plans to fight it when it happens... You cannot fight a rumor that may or may not exist!

That being said T- minus 55 work days and counting down

[HOOKMAN]

Well put Loo!!!

[? BUCKY IS HERE]

Thanks Chief, Now that you have put an end to the rumors what are we suppose to do now???:confused:

[TCosgroveJones]

Thanks Chief, Now that you have put an end to the rumors what are we suppose to do now???:confused:

How about fix the CLINIC
Cosgr:Dve

[Hydro Engineer]

OUR biggest problem is the books. Lets up date them so we can follow them. Then the chief can with out any problems enforce the rules.:D

[regs1]

Hydro:

I know I have been gone for over a year, but when I was in regs in the basement I had all the books installed on the shared drive for all to access.
Is this now gone?

Kenzen:

If the present people do not know how to do this, give me a message, I just need someone who has the proper access to watch over me, it take me less than one hour to reinstall. [or explain how to do it]

[NorthSTAR]

Regs, the books are still there. It's not a question of technology ability, the manuals just haven't been changed much since you left, so there's nothing to replace them with.

[regs1]

If the books are still there, then they are the official manuals, these books used to the the masters that always had the first updates. The were also used to make copies for the promotion test.
Basically everyone had access rights, if things did not change you could easily copy them to a 8mb thumb drive.
The only permission that was not given was to be able to print them.

so basically anyone who has access to a FD computer also access to the official manuals.

[Hydro Engineer]

With all the S.O., Memo's and G.O.'s the books are out dated. They never updated the books as they issued the orders:confused: so how would (or could)any one follow the rules as ordered????????:confused::confused::confused::conf used::confused::confused::confused::confused::conf used::confused::confused:

[HOOKMAN]

And while were beating the horse dead on the rumor mill, changes, patches, promotions etc.....It's my understanding from talking to an informant of mine:D and I believe it was mentioned either on thewatchdesk or somewhere else, was the fact that promotions were held up because of the possibility of the test being compromised. Individuals who were on the test committee and were to be sequestered or told not to hang with or talk to those who might take the test, were in fact interacting with them. I'm not here to debate that, but to ask anyone who did take the test to become a Sgt or above, did you receive or know anyone who received their assesment center score?

I'm not saying I'm right or even close on this, but how can you have a promotion list where you have Sgt's, Lt's and Captain's ranked from 1st to last, if nobody or at the very least some received their assesment center score? Some things that make you go hmmmmmm:confused:

[Hydro Engineer]

On the 2008 exam we didn't receive our Ratings until April.
It was not your score either it was your rating. It was to let you know what areas you needed to work on.

[? BUCKY IS HERE]

I have not recieved any scores, ratings, or anything pertaining to the Assesment center.

[Freelancin']

When will any Fire Dept. learn that thye need to take any type of promo. test away from the Dept. giving it.. Who if anyone in their right mind actually thinks that any test in DCFD or any M.D. or NOVA Dept. that is or has been compromised????

[bunkroombandit]

I know I have my results

[HOOKMAN]

If Bucky didn't receive his assessment center score, but bunkroombandit did, how can you list anyone in any type of order, if EVERYONE didn't receive theirs????? Or we to say, the members who took the assessment center aren't entitled to receive it or they don't need to have it or know the score in order for the department to rank people in accordance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but before a promotional list can come out ranking people in order for Sgt, Lt. and Captain, don't you need the score of the promotional exam combined with the assessment center score, before this is done:confused::confused: So if a 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4's of the membership didn't receive their assessment center scores, how can you have a list?????

[Truth]

And while were beating the horse dead on the rumor mill, changes, patches, promotions etc.....It's my understanding from talking to an informant of mine:D and I believe it was mentioned either on thewatchdesk or somewhere else, was the fact that promotions were held up because of the possibility of the test being compromised. Individuals who were on the test committee and were to be sequestered or told not to hang with or talk to those who might take the test, were in fact interacting with them. I'm not here to debate that, but to ask anyone who did take the test to become a Sgt or above, did you receive or know anyone who received their assesment center score?

I'm not saying I'm right or even close on this, but how can you have a promotion list where you have Sgt's, Lt's and Captain's ranked from 1st to last, if nobody or at the very least some received their assesment center score? Some things that make you go hmmmmmm:confused: How could a test be compromised if noone from the department, including those sequestered, saw the test until the exact same time on test morning?

[HOOKMAN]

Truth...I shouldn't have included that into what i was saying regarding the assessment center scores, however, should have said on top of the lawsuit which included allegations the promotional exam was compromised, as I was referring to the allegations in th lawsuit which made it seem as if that were my opinion.

[Brks_R_4_Puz's]

No Assessment Scores here either!

[HOOKMAN]

Brks.....what's your take on not getting your assessment score...Knowing what your score was only on the promotional test, do you think its possible you can be ranked in order for Lieutenant without knowing what your assessment results were? Seems kinda hard to be ranked, if you need both scores combined...I can see not getting your results for a few months, then a list comes out, but not the other way around....

[DotheDew]

Not jumping in the middle of it but the scores from I/O were not released last time before the register was out. Everyone will get their scores, the one that was sending them out has since retired.

On a side note, if one does a little research into I/O Solutions they will find Truths statement to be correct. Hook, come on man....you talk about not spreading rumors etc...let's just let this stuff ride out. I firmly believe when it is all said and done, those of us that did well will be promoted, those that did not, wont.

Not throwing stones, not trying to argue, but all of this does directly affect me. I like to hear truths regarding these things rather than opinions.

Everyone Be Safe out there. Keep your heads up, and your mind sharp. We are DC for crying out loud. As far as the Chief goes, give him a chance. Stop listening to rumors, see what actions are taken....he may suprise you!

[HOOKMAN]

Dew....I must have missed something...what rumor did I spread. As far as the assessment stuff goes, I'm just curious to know if a member doesn't receive his assessment results, how is that person to know his overall score and how is that member to know if the people who are going to rank each member accordingly, if they received the results? This isn't spreading rumors, its trying to find answers and so far I haven't heard anyone that can give me one. Saying this happened in 2008 isn't an answer and so we should just move right along.

Dew, in all honesty, if you didn't receive the results from the assessment center, would you just assume they got it right and they'll rank you fairly? This doesn't sound right to me, whether its the most recent test or the 1998 test.

And the test being compromised isn't a rumor I'm spreading, maybe not word for word, however, its in the lawsuit that was filed.

[DotheDew]

Hook,

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. The long and short is that if I/O and the dept rank you, no I do not think you seeing your scores should matter. even if you see your score, what does it tell you? How you did! That is all. It will not show where everyone else is ranked bud. To clear it up, post everyones score I would be fine with that!

The other part of my comment was only meant as, if I file a lawsuit claiming that a Chief exposed himself to someone, does that mean it is true? No! It is only an accusation or a rumor! For you to state something that is not proven, is spreading a rumor if it is found to be untrue.

That is all I was saying brother.

Be safe!!

[HOOKMAN]

Dew...No problem......

I realize that seeing your assessment center score alone isn't going to rank you, but its your assessment center score along with your promotional exam score combined, that's factored in, to give you ONE score which will be used to rank you accordingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your overall score a combination of both the promotional test and the assessment center that ranks you in order?

Though you personally don't care to see your assessment score, I'm sure there are plenty of others that do. Would you mind if you didn't know your score on the promotional test, but knew what your score from the assessment center was? From what I know, you can score a 99 on your promotional exam, however, if you do poorly on the assessment center, your ranking for Sgt., Lt., or Captain is reduced significantly. So if your someone who scored a 95 or higher, thought you aced the assessement center, but didn't get your assessment center results, then find your ranked 145th for Sergeant, wouldn't you want to know what your assessment center score was?

Like I said, this might not mean anything to you or to anyone else who did well, but people can raise questions and demand their scores, so they know how they were ranked against everyone else who completed the process.

[Hydro Engineer]

You will NEVER get your Assessment scores. The Department has never given them out. So why would it change now???? When you do receive your Packet it will not tell you your score, It will rank your answers.

The Law suit will not hold up in court. So do not let that bother you. :D

[HOOKMAN]

Hydro....I hear ya....

Aren't the scores from the assessment center scored like a 5 or 10 or something like that???? I just remember a while back (4 years ago) and maybe the grading is done differently today, but quite sure I was told how you did by the score, whether it was a 5, 10 etc......
I know people who received there results from the assessment center alone and were probably more concerned about their score from that alone, then they were their score on the promotional exam.
So I would think the results from the assessment center are vital to a person, in order to know how well they fared on the exam.:rolleyes:

As far as the lawsuit goes, its not about what I think, but what the people who filed it believe...

[Hydro Engineer]

When they send your packet it will state on each question where you ranked. With I/O solutions they do not give your actual results, it ranks you on each category that they are grading.

And the people who filed the law suit have to realize that a STRAINER will hold more water then their suit:D

I/O Solutions has never had a test compromised. :cool:

[HOOKMAN]

Gotcha...I gather I/O Solutions wasn't the one used 4 years ago...Either way, its time to change the oil in my car :D

[Brks_R_4_Puz's]

Well, I have recieved a ranking score of 2 on the In-Basket on the 2008 Exam and ranked (I believe) 7/8 on my Assessment (which I feltI've might have done about the same on the 2010 Assessment) add that along with my written score placed me at #17 on the Promotional List. With that said Hook, YES! Knowing your scores and rankings before the list is produced gives you a guage of where you should fair. But the best thing would be is to produce the registry with all scores, Assessment rankings, Education points & Senoirity points on it in ranking order. That way everyone knows the points difference between each person that made the cut. And I really don't care whether or not they have a cut off score cause I believe I'll make it everytime. These scores/rankings should NOT be a secret if we ALL are being ranked correctly and not moved ahead by management after they see the final scores.

As far as this test goes, I'm not the Investigator but when you have Pictures with a group of people that you are NOT supposed to have any contact with what so ever you have compromised the exam whether any info was shared or not. No one knows the truth, but the speculations are there cause of the evidence. Even if no info was shared that pic was DUMB on that individuals part. So like I've told all before. One, wait to see the outcome of the IG Investigation. Two, if nothing, you'll get promoted and Congrats. Three, if you don't cause of this, then go thank those involved for not following the rules! And whip the books back out and get ready for the next one.

[Greenshield]

Give those suspected of any impropriety the opportunity to clear their name with a polygraph. This would be cheaper and faster than doing a whole new test process. Just my .02

[Brooks]

Polygraphs are woo science, and inadmissible in court.

Despite the department's negative history with Pearson Vue, I personally think the idea of contracting the entire test to a testing company has a lot of merit.

Instead of having a very expensive mass test every two years, why not let candidates go to the testing center when they are eligible and desire a promotion. The department could have a smaller, more frequent assessment center process.

Other organizations, with higher stakes than ours, use computer based testing. The FAA, who test and certify pilots, publicize their test bank. I guess they figure that if you can memorize 5000 questions, you might accidently learn what you're supposed to.

Any system that depends on secrecy is bound to fail eventually -- especially in the context of a fire department.

[HOOKMAN]

Though inadmissable in court, it would give an idea as to who was being less than honest or at the very least, did nothing at all.

As Brks put it, the people in the picture could have done nothing wrong, could have run along side of each other exchanging possible questions on the test or just made a bad choice of hanging out with people you weren't supposed to. However, if your on the test writing committee and your supposed to be sequestered away from everyone, then you can't play golf, scuba dive, take photos for your facebook collage:D or play Yahtzee with your fellow fireman.

As it refers to the lawsuit and the test being compromised and I know everyone has said, " how can the test be compromised " if nobody saw it until they sat down to take the test. Well, have the Union or Department, hire and outside investigator to look into the allegations of those seen in the picture or whatever else was alleged to have taken place, then once that's been accomplished and cleared up, promote and transfer all.

As Green so delicately put it, that's just my .02:)

[Greenshield]

Polygraphs was just one idea. As to the testing center idea; it seems that it would be like the MVA when you go to get a CDL. You go when you are eligible and desire the learners permit, then if you pass you take the practical within 6 months by appointment. Good idea by merit, but I think it would be more open to scams than the current system. This would probably end up causing more headache and expense than the current system.

Idea. 33 engines....16 Trucks....3 Rescues... Hazmat...FB..... and on to TA, A/D, FM, Fire Prevention......every Captain submits10 questions, I/O chooses the questions to use. Some Captains may get all ten used from theirs while others get fewer or none. Every Captain will submit 5 based on their division, and then 5 from non-division specific material.

[regs1]

Greenshield:

A similar system was proposed about 8 yrs ago, except each captain will propose 20 questions, each Lt and Sgt 10, and any firefighter who wanted to submit 5 questions. Never made it past AFC Fritz desk.

I also was on a couple of promotion assessment boards for private companies, what always amazed me was after each candidate was done, we had to document why we gave that score. We were always told that the candidate will be given the reason for such score. The local FD assessment board I was on was for Fairfax City FD. I always wondered why DCFD candidates never received this information.

[Greenshield]

Greenshield:

A similar system was proposed about 8 yrs ago, except each captain will propose 20 questions, each Lt and Sgt 10, and any who wanted to submit firefighter 5. Never made it past AFC Fritz desk.

I like that system even better.

[Brooks]

I like the idea of a public database of test questions, and a means for members to submit them, and a means to vet the questions.

However, having each member submit them has a few faults. 1st, there must be some committee or other group that decides whether the questions are correct and relevant. 2nd, if each person submits 10 questions, you'll wind up with a test bank that deeply covers the 10 or 20 most popular topics, but does not cover the deep material very well, if at all.

I think a wiki type file, with access by any credentialed (i.e @dc.gov) address would allow for submitting and discussing each of the potential questions, with final 'approval' for inclusion being delegated to some combination of the OFC, DCHR, and L36, or their designees.

[Greenshield]

We could all just stand on our heads and rank everybody in reverse order that they topple over. No way anyone can cheat on this one, and your ability is all that matters.:p
We could also potato sack race, stand on one leg, ride a tiny tricycle or any mix of these options.

[NorthSTAR]

We could all just stand on our heads and rank everybody in reverse order that they topple over. No way anyone can cheat on this one, and your ability is all that matters.:p
We could also potato sack race, stand on one leg, ride a tiny tricycle or any mix of these options.

I vote for American Gladiators style, or maybe "Survivor-Blue Plains"

[? BUCKY IS HERE]

Cage Match!!!

[Mac29]

Maybe naked Roman Greco wrestling will solve it!

[Greenshield]

Maybe naked Roman Greco wrestling will solve it!

As long as you are blindfolded and oiled up first, I have no quarrel with this.:eek:

[DvlsAdvct]

Tell me. Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

[Hydro Engineer]

I've been to Turkey. Why??????? I even know some Turkish Mafia:eek:

[Brooks]

Relevant.

http://www.amctheatres.com/airplane/

Missed it yesterday, but you can see Airplane! on the big screen Tuesday, February 2nd, in Georgetown, Columbia, Gaithersburg, Tysons, Alexandria, and Potomac Mills.

Also, I like movies about gladiators.

[ktflame]

I am so tired of hearing about exams that have been possibly compromised. I hope the days of test writing committees will end because there is no need for them. Let the testing company do their job by creating questions and answers and have a BFC or higher review them to ensure their validity. Then there are no more excuses about others getting the answers. When will this agency ever learn its lesson regarding promotional exam confidentiality.....geez!!!!

[HOOKMAN]

ktflame......I'm not saying the test was compromised, however, looking at this from both sides of the fence, what if its found out through a proper investigation, the test was compromised? What if it wasn't compromised, but its found out that there's a picture of someone that wasn't supposed to be hanging around the rank and file, but that picture further lead to emails and phones calls between those individuals, as well as others...hmmm...just saying....

Looking at this from the mindset, I studied my ass off and those that didn't study like I did are holding my spot up, is very narrow minded.....If its found out that the test wasn't compromised and people just used bad judgement in talking to or hanging out with people they weren't, then so be it, however, the test will have to be given again. So if that's the case, who do you cast blame on, the person or persons that were supposed to be sequestered away from the rest until the test was over or people who filed a lawsuit with one of their complaints being they believed the promotion test was compromised.

Like I said, I'm just looking at this from both sides, but I'm sure its frustrating for those on the list to sit and wait this out, but if they wanted to speed things up a bit, they could ask the Union to start an independant investigation.....

[#1truck]

Some questions about the test being compromised:

1. Why was there no complaints filed until the rankings were released? sounds like people were unhappy with their placement and just throwing allegations out there for their own benefit.

2. The picture was from the marathon which was run 1 MONTH after the exam!

Now I don't know all of the reasons behind this portion of the law suit, but it seems as a last ditch effort to improve the placement of the members who didn't like their spot. If it is found that certain people did in fact cheat remove them from the list and punish them. There is no reason to punish all of the others that put in the time and effort.

[The A Team]

Ex-Hookman, the only fence you are on is the other side. You have no clue what it is like to study for a promotional exam. You cheated on your tech exam. You got answers from your Captain. Why do you feel so compelled to comment on every issue regarding DCFD? You no longer work for DCFD. Your bullshit about the test being compromised because a certain person ran a marathon is bullshit. The Captain had permission to participate in the marathon, why, because I/O solutions does not need anyone to be sequestered. Chief Ellerbe can relate to the situation. He was on a test writing committee before and was removed. After he was removed he associated with members who took the test. So does that mean he may have cheated a long time ago? Are there officers out here now that had a hook up?

[HOOKMAN]

Awwww sweetums......I didn't even see this reply........now precious, before you get all excited and say mean things, I'll talk about everything and anything I want to, because most things I talk about, you have no clue about or your incapable of talking about them, therefore, I will continue to comment in this forum whenever I please.

Oh and please the forum is all yours......Please describe in detail how I cheated on my tech exam and how the Captain of the Truck Co. at that time, gave me the answers.....I'm all ears on that one pudding......;) Oh and if you know who the Captain was, why don't you march your sweet buns down to his office and spill the fluids that seem to be overflowing out your vaginal suckhole....maybe he can call Playtex and they can send their Menstrual Disaster Strike Team to plug up your pretty place...

For those other than Murdoch of the Anal Team, I'm not taking sides, but offering up an opinion looking at it from 2 perspectives and not just one. Its one thing to say what happened, as opposed to what could have happened or what didn't happened. I for one, don't know the Captain and have never seen the pic, I'm only going on the information that's been put out there.
I don't wish any ill will on anyone who studied, no matter what they were ranked. I hope whatever the delay is in promoting those individuals, its done soon. Don't confuse my opinion with that of, I know what happened, because I don't....

[HOOKwoMAN]

Awwww sweetums......I didn't even see this reply........now precious, before you get all excited and say mean things, I'll talk about everything and anything I want to, because most things I talk about, you have no clue about or your incapable of talking about them, therefore, I will continue to comment in this forum whenever I please.

Oh and please the forum is all yours......Please describe in detail how I cheated on my tech exam and how the Captain of the Truck Co. at that time, gave me the answers.....I'm all ears on that one pudding......;) Oh and if you know who the Captain was, why don't you march your sweet buns down to his office and spill the fluids that seem to be overflowing out your vaginal suckhole....maybe he can call Playtex and they can send their Menstrual Disaster Strike Team to plug up your pretty place...

For those other than Murdoch of the Anal Team, I'm not taking sides, but offering up an opinion looking at it from 2 perspectives and not just one. Its one thing to say what happened, as opposed to what could have happened or what didn't happened. I for one, don't know the Captain and have never seen the pic, I'm only going on the information that's been put out there.
I don't wish any ill will on anyone who studied, no matter what they were ranked. I hope whatever the delay is in promoting those individuals, its done soon. Don't confuse my opinion with that of, I know what happened, because I don't....

Nevermind, could cause a mis-trial

[HOOKMAN]

Ummmmm are you dumb or just plain stupid.....apparently you didn't grasp what I told you before when people write things openly on a public forum about a person that is false, know it is false, but write as if its true....So, I gather your both dumb and stupid..........As far as using my name, if it makes your undies a little less wet, I don't care, but most people know who I am sweetheart and its not like you cracked the safe open to reveal who I am....I have a pretty good idea who you are...:)

[HOOKMAN]

Oh Buttercup.........you took your post down and replaced it with something else........maybe your not stupid after all and just plain dumb......I'm sorry I get under your skin, but if you wanna play, I suggest you pack your breakfast, lunch and dinner, cuz you'll be in for a long long day.....:)

I beg you to repost what you just took down or continue to talk about what you think you know about me....Oh please do so.....pretty please....Well for those that are wondering. Hookbitch said that a Captain that used to work at Grimke supplied me with Dennis Rubin's emails. Hookbitch, is that what happened or did I hack Dennis Rubin's email.....Get it straight would you....