Our Chief??????

[Hydro Engineer]

Why would a member of this Department for over 28+ years want to change the history of this department?:confused::eek:
Our department over the last 100 plus years has done such a wonderful job and has continued to help the citizens of this great city with outstanding history:D. Our new Chief has an agenda to reduce this department to Followers instead of Leaders and to follow him into turmoil and utter destruction:eek::confused::eek:. If he wants us to self-destruct let him:p. He will before we do:). If you just stop and step aside he will fall on his face because he has no common sense:p. As we can see our budget supports us and he still wants to cut this department:confused:

[Outofdaloop]

He's obviously aiming to be at the top of the list of Chiefs of the DCFD

Top of the list of Worse Chiefs Ever that is.

He's already passed Coleman and Latin, lol.

[Antozilla]

Sounds like you are talking about Rubin

Same Crap different chief

Are you ever happy????


Yous Antogina

[rescuedude]

Why would a member of this Department for over 28+ years want to change the history of this department?
Our department over the last 100 plus years has done such a wonderful job and has continued to help the citizens of this great city with outstanding history:D. Our new Chief has an agenda to reduce this department to Followers instead of Leaders and to follow him into turmoil and utter destruction:eek::confused::eek:. If he wants us to self-destruct let him:p. He will before we do:). If you just stop and step aside he will fall on his face because he has no common sense:p. As we can see our budget supports us and he still wants to cut this department:confused:

Hydro, this is a known and has been a known for awhile now, is there something else yesterday that made you say this or just letting some steam off?? I did hear that instead of PROMOTIONS he is going to make those on the top of the list be actors!!!!!!! GREAT:confused:

[Smalls21]

I have read many of these fourms for a long time... I finally feel compelled to to comment.

The FEMS Adminstrator does not care one ounce about the members of this great department. He is back in this city for 1 reason, which is to fleece the department in order to bolster his percieved future political career.

The FEMS Adminstrator has proven himself time and time again to be a failure since January... He has screwed the members who studied and busted their asses for the promotional exam by not promoting because of various excuses. There are still currently more officer vacancies that have not been filled.
He has gone from firehouse to firehouse talking of layoffs and schedule change because of the budget... yet for the past 2 weeks, The training academy has seen a constant stream of future cadets walk through the doors to take the "entrance exam". What gives Mr. "FEMS Admistrator"?? Why dont you just come clean and tell everyone you want non-city residents to quit so you can hire cadets (most of whom dont even live in the District).

He continues to place members in harms way by making them wear their non-NFPA compliant uniform shirts in 100 + degree heat. All while making members stand security details in the city's worst neighborhoods and ride ambulances without the proper air conditioning.

It is apparent that the FEMS Administrator's only real goal is to kiss the corrupt Mayor Gray's ass in order to hopefully someday become Deputy Mayor.

In almost 10 years on the job, I have never seen morale as low as it currently is. I only hope this clown leaves and takes his circus with him before we cannot recover!

Maybe the FEMS Administrator will join the members on their ambulance details with his "wash and wear" work uniform in 100 + degree heat as well as participating in the 2 am "soft posts" in the worst neigborhoods in the city. Afterall, He did say "its the responsibility of all city employees to keep the city safe!"

[Hydro Engineer]

He has gone from firehouse to firehouse talking of layoffs and schedule change because of the budget...

He has not been to my Firehouse yet:confused:

Hey Mr. FEMS Administrator I Double Dog Dare you:eek:

[? BUCKY IS HERE]

Smalls21, you forgot about all of us tattooed psychopaths!!!!:D

[? BUCKY IS HERE]

I stand corrected thats tattooed Sociopaths!!!!

[oldhead]

It was clear when our "fire chief" got here he wasn't worthy of the title, so fems administrator seemed appropriate, however, with the recent round of silly shit going on, I believe the more appropriate term is political appointee or just appointee because that's all he is. I'm willing to bet though, that he can sink lower and earn a title that garners less respect than appointee...

[Hydro Engineer]

I'm willing to bet though, that he can sink lower and earn a title that garners less respect than appointee...

:D WHALE TURD:D can you sink lower then that??

[lineman20engine]

He can't find enough time to make to other firehouses because chief jackson is acting chief more he does ellerbe you fucking piece of shit

[xray]

for one hes the most educated chief weve ever had for starters, you know he could do everythg rite a u would still find faults. For some of us the morale was in the gutter under rubin and shultz and some of you make it seem like this is the worst. Change is good especially for this department, who cares what happen 100 years ago. Tradition is not always a good thing especially if it only work for a select few. Finally someone who's gonna hold everybody accountable for there actions. I thought people said and I quote " charges for black members would go down and up for the white members". On the contrary charges for white members hasnt increased like some of u thought. I for one believe if members were hired from the area will have a more positive attitude for the job.Everthg cant go your way I know your use to it but its a new day. Chief im 100% behind ya get rid of the ones who dont want to be here. One more thing u know why so many of u cry about the ambulance, becuz u dont live here or have ties to the area.Thats why u sit around anticipating a box alarm so that someone you dont give a f@@k about property burns down. Yeah u want to rush and go do that, what that makes up 20% of our job while the other 80% you can care less. So that makes u a 20% fireman what a waste. Chief hire people who care for the community and dont mind running medicals, thats what we are here for to help np matter what the call is with enthusiasm.


hail ceasar long live the chief

[Confused]

for one hes the most educated chief weve ever had for starters, you know he could do everythg rite a u would still find faults. For some of us the morale was in the gutter under rubin and shultz and some of you make it seem like this is the worst. Change is good especially for this department, who cares what happen 100 years ago. Tradition is not always a good thing especially if it only work for a select few. Finally someone who's gonna hold everybody accountable for there actions. I thought people said and I quote " charges for black members would go down and up for the white members". On the contrary charges for white members hasnt increased like some of u thought. I for one believe if members were hired from the area will have a more positive attitude for the job.Everthg cant go your way I know your use to it but its a new day. Chief im 100% behind ya get rid of the ones who dont want to be here. One more thing u know why so many of u cry about the ambulance, becuz u dont live here or have ties to the area.Thats why u sit around anticipating a box alarm so that someone you dont give a f@@k about property burns down. Yeah u want to rush and go do that, what that makes up 20% of our job while the other 80% you can care less. So that makes u a 20% fireman what a waste. Chief hire people who care for the community and dont mind running medicals, thats what we are here for to help np matter what the call is with enthusiasm.


hail ceasar long live the chief

When did they allow St E's internet access?

[DCFDRescue2]

for one hes the most educated chief weve ever had for starters, you know he could do everythg rite a u would still find faults. For some of us the morale was in the gutter under rubin and shultz and some of you make it seem like this is the worst. Change is good especially for this department, who cares what happen 100 years ago. Tradition is not always a good thing especially if it only work for a select few. Finally someone who's gonna hold everybody accountable for there actions. I thought people said and I quote " charges for black members would go down and up for the white members". On the contrary charges for white members hasnt increased like some of u thought. I for one believe if members were hired from the area will have a more positive attitude for the job.Everthg cant go your way I know your use to it but its a new day. Chief im 100% behind ya get rid of the ones who dont want to be here. One more thing u know why so many of u cry about the ambulance, becuz u dont live here or have ties to the area.Thats why u sit around anticipating a box alarm so that someone you dont give a f@@k about property burns down. Yeah u want to rush and go do that, what that makes up 20% of our job while the other 80% you can care less. So that makes u a 20% fireman what a waste. Chief hire people who care for the community and dont mind running medicals, thats what we are here for to help np matter what the call is with enthusiasm.


hail ceasar long live the chief

Caesar?

Really?

I mean, it's clear from your post that you are an educated man, but have you heard how that story ends?

[xray]

@ rescue2, I was just stating some facts and u know that what i said is the truth.as for the hail ceasar, well just having a lil fun, but I mean what i said inregards to members being here just to chase fire and not really have a true interest in helping people regardless of what the call is. I take pride in going on a call no matter what it is. I know some of the calls can be rediculous but we work in a major city,this isnt the country totally different enviroment.The people here some of them do not have a private doctor or health care for that matter. So what we provide for them is an essential service whether they appreciated or not. That really bothers me to see so many with the negative attitude towards the job, and lets face it thats the root of the problem. It aint about a "T" shirt or shorts, the problem lies in attitude towards the job or part of the job. If u and I dont mean u in particular, looked at this job as a public servant,striving with enthusiasm to help this community than the attitudes about a t shirt wouldnt matter. I for one cud care less what was on the back of my shirt, as long as my pay didnt change I know what I am and who I work for.

[Styles]

"Et tu Brute?" Translation "And you Brutus?"

[SLICK]

DCFDRescue2
Caesar?

Really?

I mean, it's clear from your post that you are an educated man, but have you heard how that story ends?

Baaaaawaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

[Confused]

as long as my pay didnt change

I think this says all that needs to be said about you and why you're here.

[Chingachgook]

Ceasar? No. Nero.

As in he who fiddled, while Rome burned.

Ambulances broken, transporting heat exposure patients without air conditioning? FEMSC Ellerbe's answer - struggle with FOUR successive uniform order changes.

Incident commander (BFC) positions unfilled, such that 6 of the 7 on-duty incident commanders are persons acting above their pay grade. FESMC Ellerbe's answer - sit on promotions, leave positions vacant, tour the firehouses preaching gloom and doom and layoffs if the Union doesn't accept an increase in hours scheduled.

Firefighters burned in house fire? FEMSC Ellerbe's answer: gut the training academy, end in-service training, mothball and hide the NFPA compliant Fire Resistive shirts purchased by the last administration.

Vehicles, Equipment and Personnel breaking down due to high call volume and poor maintenance and poor morale (see above, re A/C in ambulances, threatened layoffs). Chief's answer? Have personnel patrol street corners in off-peak hours.

As for cliques (and yes, idiot, it's clique, not 'click'), I'm not sure if the old regime had any favored cliques, but if it did, is was full of people, black and white, WHO DID THEIR JOB. The new guy? I don't know for sure his favorite clique, but I'm guessing his Shining Stars aren't that diverse: http://www.bmorenews.com/video/the-working-men-who-care-celebrate-new-dc-fire-chi.shtml
Not a lot of white, yellow, red or brown faces in that video -- it's an organization designed to help African-Americans. I don't mind an organization trying to do that -- but when you have a fire chief that explicitly says he's going to help them get ahead, you have to be aware of the math involved. Reducing black-on-black crime, increasing black education, decreasing black out of wedlock births, they are all fine. But when you want to hire or promote people to an agency with a limited personnel budget, you cannot promote one race without necessarily discriminating against the others.

This guy is a clown, and I wonder how long the Mayor will continue to support him.

[Hydro Engineer]

That really bothers me to see so many with the negative attitude towards the job, and lets face it thats the root of the problem. It aint about a "T" shirt or shorts, the problem lies in attitude towards the job or part of the job. If u and I dont mean u in particular, looked at this job as a public servant,striving with enthusiasm to help this community than the attitudes about a t shirt wouldnt matter. I for one cud care less what was on the back of my shirt, as long as my pay didnt change I know what I am and who I work for.

The members on this (JOB) do not have a negative attitude towards the (JOB). The members here who live this career do it with pride and conviction. However we do have issues here and our Administrator thinks that changing our name will help??:confused: Are you kidding me:confused: With the temperature's this summer he decides to not allow members to where T-shirts or shorts:eek: For real ???:confused: Now the membership has a very low morale:o and is not happy with the Administration:(. Now we will continue to do are best and we can over come his childish changes that make him feel like he is doing something good. But bad morale and unhappy employees are not what the citizens of this great city want.
I have had many citizens ask what I think of the new chief and I tell them. I let them know of what his priorities are and what he should be working on.;) The citizens are very upset and surprised that his first concern was a name change.
He can order us to where what ever he wants he wont run me out:D And I hope you young guys don't let his attitude change your mind about the DCFD:D We have made it thru so many changes it's not worth the energy to fight these little battles. He wont be here when you retire and our name may change a few more times before you retire. I'm on my 4th patch since I came on and will probably have 4 more before I go.

He is just going down in history of this department with people like Few, and Latin:o

[FEMS Only]

Xray has got to be a plant ( not the green kind lol). In case anyone was curious, spell check only ensures that the typed word is spelled correctly. Not that it is the correct word to use. What does frighten me is the distinct possibility that someone like he(she) qualified for the same job I hold. Nice advertisement. What is encouraging though is the fact the LRB could only fool the simple minded. Wheeew. There is hope yet. Perhaps Xray is the one writing all of the orders since LRB has taken the helm.:D

[FEMS Only]

for one hes the most educated chief weve ever had for starters, you know he could do everythg rite a u would still find faults.
Like having you defend him in such an advanced and non pedestrian way. Also his "academic" pedigree doesn't change the validity of mine or anyone's arguments.

who cares what happen 100 years ago. Tradition is not always a good thing especially if it only work for a select few.
You apparently feel this way about the English Language.

Thats why u sit around anticipating a box alarm so that someone you dont give a f@@k about property burns down. Yeah u want to rush and go do that, what that makes up 20% of our job while the other 80% you can care less.

So by wanting to extinguish someone's house and or pull them to safety means I do not care about them? Do not infer that because you won't or can't do fire that many of us are the opposite and won't or can't do TRUE medical calls. Calling a headache, toothache, or checking on the same drunk for the 3rd time in a night is not EMS and is a joke. You obviously have no idea of the realm to which you speak and have lived a very sheltered and limited FD career. BTW if you run 8 sleeping homeless persons and I run 2 fires, whom has done more to help the city or has done more period?

[Templar]

My dear "Xray".... food for thought once we pay the bill you can go back to college to finish that education you never finished getting in high school. I mean the sad thing is, this site even corrects the spelling. The little red squiggly line under it means the word needs help. :D

Anyway, someday this roller coaster ride will end. They always do. Whether it's time served, a new mayor or the numerous other options, It will end, and I shall be here, along with my Shirts that say DCFD and the shorts we will one day wear again.

[xray]

I'll bet your all tea party member's no doubt, the same one's when shultz and rube was in power u thought everythg was ok. This department was in shambles long before CHIEF ELLERBE got here. You all rejoiced in the coming of rubin and shultz taken over and mismanaging the department. Didnt see you all complaining about that. A lot of you are very disrespectful of the current chief and for what no good reason. Lets see he makes u wear the uniform properly and now u cant hide behind uncle shultz when ur in trouble. Some of u dont deserve to be on this job becuz u do not have a discipline bone in ur body. So what u like ur job it takes more than that to make an organization work.Cheif Ellerbe wont be here forever but what he has done is a start in the right direction and I hope the next chief picks up and finishes what he started.

[Confused]

I'll bet your all tea party member's no doubt

You know it really kills me that all of the "closet Tea Party republicans" that hide in the agency and promote so much negativity.

Are you Blackbeltff, or is "tea party" the new accepted innuendo for racist white fireman?

Edit: I should add that it really disappoints me to think that there are brothers of mine out there using this masked terminology.

I really should add the first google search definition I could find for "Tea Party"

Wikipedia: It endorses reduced government spending, opposition to taxation in varying degrees, reduction of the national debt and federal budget deficit, and adherence to an originalist interpretation of the United States Constitution.

Surely you're not calling them people who want to shrink government and reduce taxes and the national debt. Surely you're not calling them people who want to follow the Constitution. So what are you calling them?

[FEMS Only]

I'll bet your all tea party member's no doubt, the same one's when shultz and rube was in power u thought everythg was ok. This department was in shambles long before CHIEF ELLERBE got here. You all rejoiced in the coming of rubin and shultz taken over and mismanaging the department. Didnt see you all complaining about that. A lot of you are very disrespectful of the current chief and for what no good reason. Lets see he makes u wear the uniform properly and now u cant hide behind uncle shultz when ur in trouble. Some of u dont deserve to be on this job becuz u do not have a discipline bone in ur body. So what u like ur job it takes more than that to make an organization work.Cheif Ellerbe wont be here forever but what he has done is a start in the right direction and I hope the next chief picks up and finishes what he started.

Same argument change title/name from Chief Ellerbe to President Obama and you have the minion's talking points for when their king(s)fail. IN true modern progressive form it's everybody else's fault. I despised Shultz and Rube. Given the choice I'd take them any day (ugh). Taking the helm of the Titanic and hitting the throttle instead of braking and steering away is no better than never having been at the helm at all. If Rubin was doing the same things as LRB you'd be screaming at the top of your misspelled lungs. Had he not promoted people with all of the vacancies, tried to change the work schedule, etc. the R word would have been dropped faster than a job application in the welfare office. You and I both know this.

[footsoldier]

i think xray is really Maxine Waters

[oldhead]

She got ahold of the interweb machine down at lockup!! Hahahahaha :D

[Chingachgook]

Chief Rubin never went around to firehouses telling people that we'd face 475 layoffs if we didn't agree to work more hours (at the same pay?).

For the life of me, I can't figure out how paying us to work more hours is going to SAVE money so that we can avoid layoffs.

This despite being fully funded for next fiscal year.

I can only conclude that Ellerbe is an idiot, just plain mean, or both. Neither of which makes him better than Rubin.

[FEMS Only]

Chief Rubin never went around to firehouses telling people that we'd face 475 layoffs if we didn't agree to work more hours (at the same pay?).

For the life of me, I can't figure out how paying us to work more hours is going to SAVE money so that we can avoid layoffs.

This despite being fully funded for next fiscal year.

I can only conclude that Ellerbe is an idiot, just plain mean, or both. Neither of which makes him better than Rubin.

It has nothing to do with finance, and everything to do with sticking it to(BIG AIR QUOTES)"those Pennsylvania people", which includes many whom do not live there but fit a certain profile if ya feel me. If someone were to say "those South East people" would one understand what they meant whether or not the people being talked about were from South East or not?

[Hydro Engineer]

:D:confused:Just wondering, at these TEA PARTYS do they only serve "CRACKERS":rolleyes::D

[dcfdsid]

Any word on the 2012 promotion exam?

[oldhead]

You know, the appointee can say whatever he wants, doesn't mean it's gonna happen. He can declare that ahead of this approaching hurricane little purple turds will start falling from the sky, when they hit the ground they will turn into priceless gold Spanish doubloons, then when we rush outside to scoop them up they will magically turn into chocolate and we can eat them! I'm gonna go with that ain't happenin' no time soon. Christ I went out this morning looking for a portable generator for a sister-in-law who lives in Norfolk. You can't find one. Anywhere. That's because all the idiots who are watching the weather channel and the news have been whipped into a frenzy, convinced it's gonna be end of days up here. Meanwhile, the people who really need them can't get them and all we're supposed to get is a passing shower out of it. So if you say something loud enough, long enough, all the stupid people will believe it, and you can't underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. I also told my sister-in-law she was an idiot for waiting so long to decide she might need a portable generator.

[Templar]

I smell a "Vote of NO Confidence", All in Favor?

[Tk_3_Barman]

I smell a "Vote of NO Confidence", All in Favor?

Why? It doesn't do anything. Hell the last time we did it Sneed did not even follow through with our results. We voted, he did not like the vote, it never left the floor of local 36.:mad:

All that would do is piss him off more:rolleyes:

[xray]

It's real funny going back and forth with idiot's on here (especially when they say someone misspelled a word) that's funny is that all you got, it happens when your typing fast. As far as proof reading no need because a lot of you cant spell I see it in the journal all the time. Anything to evade the truth or the real issues. Im glad the shorts are gone and you may have to travel hundreds of miles to work everday soon, as for me no problem I live here no complaints from me. I dont wish ill will towards fair minded firefighters on this job only the one sided, selfish, and use to be previledged. You see I know you, if you dont get ur way or have a leg up it's a problem.But as long as your being accommodated and have someone at the top u can run to and bail u out it is all good. This department was ran like some sh*t the last 5 or so years and you all thought it was ok. Example for starters, some members were funneled to certain house's out of the academy therefore maintaining the uneven demographics of that house. Some members were able to by past there commanding officer and get transferred to where they wanted to go.Some members who got into trouble paper work didn't get processed in time(75 days) so they were never charged, hmm wander how that happen.These are just a few but are undeniable truths, but u are unwilling to acknowledge it as though it never happen. Some members never got a chance to act as a battalion chief,they got the opportunity now thanks to chief ellerbe.I know because it didnt affect you so it wasnt a problem. IT'S OK NOTHING LAST FOREVER LIKE YA SAID, NOW SPELL CHECK THAT

[Chingachgook]

"IT'S OK NOTHING LAST[S] FOREVER LIKE YA SAID, NOW SPELL CHECK THAT"

Idiot

[NorthSTAR]

xray must be new at this interwebz thing. Otherwise he would have known that even his "great satan" Rubin was hated by virtually everyone on TWD. Get a clue, people will always throw stones at the leadership, they just choose the size of the stones proportionally to the size of the target.

[ROCKETDriver]

Im glad the shorts are gone and you may have to travel hundreds of miles to work everday soon, as for me no problem I live here no complaints from me. I dont wish ill will towards fair minded firefighters on this job only the one sided, selfish, and use to be previledged. You see I know you, if you dont get ur way or have a leg up it's a problem.But as long as your being accommodated and have someone at the top u can run to and bail u out it is all good. This department was ran like some sh*t the last 5 or so years and you all thought it was ok.

And I don't live far either, but I DON'T want to be coming in here 6 days straight! I like being home with my FAMILY on my days off! But, when you (and yes I mean YOU and The Chief and whoever else is with the change of the schedual) don't like seeing there kids grow up, go to school activities with there kids, and Family time with there Wife, then I know you are not a Family Man with your priorities in order. Seems to me you put your JOB before your FAMILY! Hell with what you think about me and even if you know who I am! I could careless! Oh yeah, while you at work for YOUR 6 days, I'll let Jody know what days you work so your wife won't feel lonely! LMFAO! at You!

Some people don't look at the whole picture before thinking of the sh!t that this will bring. I know and have spoken to older guys that have worked this schedual before and they say it's not called the "Divorce Shift" for nothing.

XRay, don't even comment back cause I shouldn't have stooped this low to entertain you in the first place. I've found the MOLE people!








Like Diddy said: "No BitchAssness!" :cool:

[FEMS Only]

you may have to travel hundreds of miles to work everday soon, as for me no problem I live here no complaints from me.

Whew, thought for a second you cared about your brother fireman's well being, glad I was wrong.Example for starters, some members were funneled to certain house's out of the academy therefore maintaining the uneven demographics of that house.

What on Gods green earth does it matter the color of persons in a firehouse? Does the level of service decrease or increase to the community based on what my skin color is? I thought great REPUBLICAN Dr. King, whom was just honored with a monument, addressed this very issue. So if one person gets put in a Firehouse because of their color, another was excluded from the same Firehouse because of theirs and that is discrimination. You can't have one without the other, WHY IS THIS OK WITH YOU!!??? For further reference, past-tense with most words ends with "ed". It's not 'Whatever happen." but "Whatever happened".

[FEMS Only]

I do get the name Xray now. You must have looked straight through the books you were supposed to be studying in school.

[DvlsAdvct]

Hey Xray, do you think the fellas driving in from PA will be the only ones affected? How about all the city folk that moved to Waldorf and farther back when because DC was a hot mess? Don't forget DC and the surrounding counties aren't very cost effective for firemen owning their own homes and not being "house poor".

Oh, and good fucking luck having a successful family on this proposed shift, its really not possible. I for one, wouldn't work that shift if I lived right across the street from the firehouse. But Im also an ALS provider and have a degree, so finding jobs isn't overly difficult for me. Believe me, salary wise, this is NOT the best gig going. I only stay because I like DC and the people I get to work with everyday.

[DvlsAdvct]

Hmmmmm, Xray. Maybe he uses xrays and is also an officer that takes pictures. No, no. The guy I'm thinking of would step on his own guys to get ahead, but he knows how to spell, I'll give him that. Disregard.

[dcfdsid]

So when Irene hits this weekend, and all the city residents who are also employees are too busy to come to work because they are dealing with their own personal issues, I guess the District will definitely need all those employees to come in to work who all live "so far away."

I don't knock anyone who lives and works in their community. You shouldn't knock me because I choose not to live where I work.

I come to work in DC because I genuinely care about who I serve. I also love the people I work with "and for". The same people now who were "held back" are now thinking it is ok to hold others back? Come on guys. We are bigger and better than that.

I would think the only thing we should all be striving for, together as one, is a presumptive bill, better working conditions, and the health and safety of our "brother" firefighters.

I post my name because I stand behind what I say. I guess that is also why brave men signe their names to the Constitution.


Sid

[oldhead]

Sid,

You nailed it. This is how "management" gets us off the real issues, divide and conquer with bullshit issues like t-shirts and telling outright lies to the membership. 3-3-3 has all the chance in hell of happening just like a snowball has a chance down there. Laying off 500 guys in October even though we're fully funded? Same chance. So why does he do it? To divide. If we're fighting amongst ourselves how can we possibly unite to get a presumptive bill, better working conditions, and improve the health and safety of our brothers? Or so the thinking goes. I prefer not to sign my name because I rather enjoy cowering in the dark. Besides, no one can figure out who's who here anyway. :p

[regs1]

Hi:

Ok, let's get a reality check going, for those who missed the last IAFF magazine, get a copy, read what the IAFF been doing about contracts being broken by various cities.

Next, the fire chief going around a telling people that he is going to break the contract by forcing the department to go to a 3-3-3 shift? Some people will believe just about anything, and yes there are still those who believe anything the fire chief says. I thought you all learn something from Rubin and his AFC's.

Let look at the union busting that seems to be going on; yes the administration wants to divide the membership. Instead of member going down to the union hall and getting the actual news, they listen to what the chief says, and better yet believe him. It's a proven fact that there will be always a number of people who sale their souls to a fire chief just to get a promotion, They will repeat what he says, spread rumors for him, and yes will place people if BS charges for him. These items were well demonstrated under chief Rubin, and having a repeat performance again under Chief Ellerbe. Ye, lessons learned by the membership, talk about repeat history lessons.

Let’s look again and the major union players in Washington D.C., The Teamsters, AFL-CIO, and IAFF all have their headquarters here. Let look at the democratic lead DC Government. So the fire chief going to take it upon himself to cancel out the old contract, disregard union negotiations, collective bargaining, and force a contact upon the membership without nothing being done except bitching. Let’s go one step further, if this was to happens, and local 36 goes to the Teamsters, AFL-CIO, and IAFF for help, and they do zero about a city busting up a union, and its contract in their back yard? How effective you think they be in N.D, Calif., FLA, and their union efforts there.

Chief Ellerbe is a lot of things, a political animal, manipulative, hot-headed, quick to make decisions based only upon his own thought process [and often wrong], but being around him most of my career, I can never say he is dumb. Everything he does has a motive, often to improve his political/personal position. Getting the city to take on the major union organizations? Let’s ask the one question I have not seen here, what is Chief Ellerbe real motive? A 2-2-4 shift? An EMS division staffed by F/F doing the 2-2-4? That is what everyone should be asking instead of having a BS attack.

[regs1]

oldhead, I know who you are:D

[oldhead]

DAMMIT foiled again. Hahahaha A-FRIGGIN-MEN! Can I get an AMEN from the membership? Oh yeah, Local 36 has used those dudes at that capitol dome place to our advantage too. :eek: :eek:

[xray]

Hey Xray, do you think the fellas driving in from PA will be the only ones affected? How about all the city folk that moved to Waldorf and farther back when because DC was a hot mess? Don't forget DC and the surrounding counties aren't very cost effective for firemen owning their own homes and not being "house poor".

Oh, and good fucking luck having a successful family on this proposed shift, its really not possible. I for one, wouldn't work that shift if I lived right across the street from the firehouse. But Im also an ALS provider and have a degree, so finding jobs isn't overly difficult for me. Believe me, salary wise, this is NOT the best gig going. I only stay because I like DC and the people I get to work with everyday.

devil's advocate this heat wasnt meant for you or any other level headed members of this department. I saved this for the redneck hating members of the department, so dont take it to heart.

[SLICK]

Redneck
The term characterized farmers having a red neck caused by sunburn from hours working in the fields

[xray]

So when Irene hits this weekend, and all the city residents who are also employees are too busy to come to work because they are dealing with their own personal issues, I guess the District will definitely need all those employees to come in to work who all live "so far away."

I don't knock anyone who lives and works in their community. You shouldn't knock me because I choose not to live where I work.

I come to work in DC because I genuinely care about who I serve. I also love the people I work with "and for". The same people now who were "held back" are now thinking it is ok to hold others back? Come on guys. We are bigger and better than that.

I would think the only thing we should all be striving for, together as one, is a presumptive bill, better working conditions, and the health and safety of our "brother" firefighters.

I post my name because I stand behind what I say. I guess that is also why brave men signe their names to the Constitution.


Sid

I agree with what you said I just cant stand negative comments on someone when you dont even know or had worked with the person. My point of this whole subject was people didnt even give the man a chance to get in the door before the trash started. That's what my beef was about, not given a person a title shot and knocking him out before the bell rings. No one will agree 100% of the time with anyone. With that said change has always been an issue with the fire dept,and with change there will be growing pains.Sure there will be policies that dont appeal to everyone we have to learn to deal with it without getting personal. Yes I went there on a few people but I knew deep down inside they were spewing venom. Ive followed this site for several years and I cant recall as many negative comments towards rube, except for a regular from truck 15. So to me it must be more than meets the eye when it comes to chief ellerbe with some folks. This is a generic statement when someone makes a comment on here if it doesnt apply to you no need to respond.

[xray]

And I don't live far either, but I DON'T want to be coming in here 6 days straight! I like being home with my FAMILY on my days off! But, when you (and yes I mean YOU and The Chief and whoever else is with the change of the schedual) don't like seeing there kids grow up, go to school activities with there kids, and Family time with there Wife, then I know you are not a Family Man with your priorities in order. Seems to me you put your JOB before your FAMILY! Hell with what you think about me and even if you know who I am! I could careless! Oh yeah, while you at work for YOUR 6 days, I'll let Jody know what days you work so your wife won't feel lonely! LMFAO! at You!

Some people don't look at the whole picture before thinking of the sh!t that this will bring. I know and have spoken to older guys that have worked this schedual before and they say it's not called the "Divorce Shift" for nothing.

XRay, don't even comment back cause I shouldn't have stooped this low to entertain you in the first place. I've found the MOLE people!








Like Diddy said: "No BitchAssness!" :cool:

For the record there are people who work 6 days a week all year long I know because ive done it. (Rocket D) news flash you know how you get around that, leave and find another job with a more conducive schedule that's what I did. This job isnt here to accommodate your life style, its upto you as a man to do that. Is working 6 days a week an ideal schedule I would say no, but dont put the burden on the job because you have options. Well as for family my kids are grown and as for (jody) I think that's something you have to worry about youre the one who sounds like ur married. So before you speak look at your own life style everone isnt going thru the same thing.Im quite sure your buddies will let your friends know that youre never home and moma will be very well taken care of while ur gone. you see how this works?

[HookHomo]

Ellerbe has put out a uniform policy 5 different times since he has been chief. "You go with what you know" holds true. He has done NOTHING!!! except maybe create a hostile work environment with all his threats and BS!.
There is no doubt he is a racist and a very vindictive person, who THINKS! he's smarter then everyone.
The mayor is in deep doo,doo, the people in the city already regret voting him in. It's only a matter of time that this CLOWN of a fire chief is a bad memory. We as a Department, as we've done many times, will outlast this CLOWN!.
Hey chief, have you looked at the demographic make up of the city lately?? I hope your cadet program looks similar, because us " TEA PARTY MEMBERS" know what you're all about.

[regs1]

slick:

redneck:

this come from a coal minor strike movement in WV, like everything else check the history of something first.

xray - same to you before using a term you know zero about, and yes there were WV black coal minors who were rednecks.

[regs1]

xray:

if you followed the site for a few years, I for one posted a lot of items about the rube and his administration, I also was on the receiving end of paybacks from them, I know for a fact others have also posted here, again not checking history of a item:p

[oldhead]

Negativity? That's pretty much what this site is all about. Not giving the appointee a chance? He lost any chance with me when 5 of our guys got burned up in a fire, ended up at the burn center, one of whom was there for 49 days, 30 of 'em in the ICU and he made a total of 2, yes TWO appearances for those brave men. Didn't get a much better response from the other wheels in the city but that's not a surprise. You know when the last appointee lost his chance with me? When by the orders of emperor fenty, in order to prove his fealty, he said he would FIRE two members who had the misfortune of being present at the Rosenbaum debacle even though they had not been recommended for termination by a trial board! We all know how rubin's deal went with that. How about the previous appointee? He lost any chance with me when he appointed a certain dude AFCO and we see how the Rosenbaum debacle was handled. Mr. "EVERYONE'S guilty until proven...well, fuck that, EVERYONE'S GUILTY OF EVERYTHING". And I can go on and on about previous appointees. Sad thing is, that's all they are, just a flavor of the day for whoever happens to be mayor. x-ray, if you click on everyone's board name you can pull all their previous posts and see for yourself all the negativity on this site. But that would take a little time and effort...

[SLICK]

Regs-

I have family that worked in the mines during that era No history lesson needed here......
I was just putting out one of the meanings to the term..... Just wanted to see which way this "TOOLl BAG" (xray) was going by throwing the word out....
And if you want to throw "CRACKER" out.....I have family to this day that run cattle in Florida.

[Confused]

Food for thought: March 24th 2011 - The number of African Americans residing in the District plummeted by more than 11 percent during the past decade, with blacks on the verge of losing their majority status in the city for the first time in half a century.

According to census statistics released Thursday, barely 50 percent of the District’s population was African American in 2010 — a remarkable shift in a place once nicknamed “Chocolate City.”

Read more at http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/black-dc-residents-plummet-barely-a-majority/2011/03/24/ABtIgJQB_story.html

I guess future cadet classes will reflect the makeup of the city, we'll see then if it really is about the city then won't we.

[Hydro Engineer]

For the record there are people who work 6 days a week all year long I know because ive done it. (Rocket D) news flash you know how you get around that, leave and find another job with a more conducive schedule that's what I did. This job isnt here to accommodate your life style, its upto you as a man to do that. Is working 6 days a week an ideal schedule I would say no, but dont put the burden on the job because you have options. Well as for family my kids are grown and as for (jody) I think that's something you have to worry about youre the one who sounds like ur married. So before you speak look at your own life style everone isnt going thru the same thing.Im quite sure your buddies will let your friends know that youre never home and moma will be very well taken care of while ur gone. you see how this works?


X-ray, your a dumb ass. Why should RD look for another job? We work 24/72 and that's not going to change. We as the Union membership will vote into the next contract the same schedule we have in the current contract 24/72
If you don't like that, you can look for another J.O.B. as you call it.:D It seems to me all the problems that this department are facing now has been directly brought to you by Administer Ellerbe:mad:

Also swallowing will not help you move AHEAD, its just giving HEAD.:eek::D:D

[DvlsAdvct]

I have seen apathy from both "PA" members and members that were born, raised and still live in DC. It works both ways, an asshole is an asshole. It matters not where you are from, but what work ethic was instilled in you as a child and young adult. Iv'e seen some lazy, incompetent actions from all genders, ethnicities, sexual orientations, religions, etc.

I HAVE ALSO SEEN SOME OF THE BEST FIREFIGHTING AND MEDICAL CARE IN MY CAREER FROM THE ABOVE LIST OF WALKS OF LIFE AS WELL!!!!

As for LRB, if you have not figured out that his goal is probably to make a run at city council or mayor, well, you must be blind. It's just a shame the department has to be his platform to show his ass.

[Tk_3_Barman]

hey x-ray. on your next detail to the first battalion make sure you log of off twd. you would not want a bunch of other people finding out who you are right now while you spew all these EEO type comments on here. essecially since you are a Sgt and represent the department and using departmental computers while you do it. thats a big no no buddy.

[Tk_3_Barman]

Don't worry though. I wont rat you out, I have more respect for myself than that.

[The BRC]

On a lighter note, how ironic is it that at the mayor's 4 PM press conference today, LRB was wearing a white "polo" shirt with the tombstone patch.

[SLICK]

hey x-ray. on your next detail to the first battalion make sure you log of off twd. you would not want a bunch of other people finding out who you are right now while you spew all these EEO type comments on here. essecially since you are a Sgt and represent the department and using departmental computers while you do it. thats a big no no buddy.


Oooooopppppppsssssss!!!!!!!!!

[BlueRay]

This is to add on to what XRay was saying. It is all about attitude. And some of the guys, and you know who you are, have brought some pretty suckish attitudes from home to this job. Which brings me to the main point. Our Quality Assurance Division is full of complaints, on a weekly basis, because of the attitudes that were brought to D.C. and displayed to the residents and VISITORS during responses. Thank yourselves for the reason of wearing work shirts and name-tags, so that the QAD can deal with you on a personal basis, because just like you hide behind usernames, YOU were, and I say were hiding behind the fact that you didn't wear your name on your chest which gave you the courage to disrespect our clients/patients, and YOU know who YOU are. MANY of you, in the past, got your partners caught up in needless investigations, only because when you opened your big, disrespectful mouths, you put your UNIT on suspicion, not yourself, yet getting your partner looked at also. But now, all that has changed, and QAD knows WHO YOU ARE. So, like it or not, WE are all dealing with the repercussions of NEGATIVE ATTITUDES.

[oldhead]

A LOT of the residents, visitors, and workers have bad attitudes too, but it's our job to deal with that professionally. I have come to the conclusion that this job is an exercise in restraint.

[FEMS Only]

BlueRay-1 post......Xray......no more posts. Whom is hiding behind usernames?

[FEMS Only]

This is to add on to what XRay was saying. It is all about attitude. And some of the guys, and you know who you are, have brought some pretty suckish attitudes from home to this job. Which brings me to the main point. Our Quality Assurance Division is full of complaints, on a weekly basis, because of the attitudes that were brought to D.C. and displayed to the residents and VISITORS during responses. Thank yourselves for the reason of wearing work shirts and name-tags, so that the QAD can deal with you on a personal basis, because just like you hide behind usernames, YOU were, and I say were hiding behind the fact that you didn't wear your name on your chest which gave you the courage to disrespect our clients/patients, and YOU know who YOU are. MANY of you, in the past, got your partners caught up in needless investigations, only because when you opened your big, disrespectful mouths, you put your UNIT on suspicion, not yourself, yet getting your partner looked at also. But now, all that has changed, and QAD knows WHO YOU ARE. So, like it or not, WE are all dealing with the repercussions of NEGATIVE ATTITUDES.
Bad attitudes "brought" to DC? That broad statement is as wrong and hardheaded as saying all cadets are worthless. I can't blame most of the "bad attitudes" you speak of for several reason. Now that you are a Sgt. you may not know to what I speak so listen. How easy going are you going to be if you are stuck in a sweat box that is well over 100 degrees on a regular? Couple that with leadership that has demonstrated that they are not concerned about your work conditions, conditions that would not be tolerated in any other regular work setting. Hell if Public Housing has a building that hot people are relocated. The fellas have sucked it up and taken more than most, like you, could imagine. Couple that with the lovely frequent fliers that are wasting valuable time and money and you have a literal pressure cooker ready to explode.

In conclusion, this department has enough "born again workers" to fill a shift. We needn't anymore.

[FEMS Only]

Those of us from outside the city are now kinda like the French Foreign Legion. We serve as outsiders. We do all the hard nasty work, get spit on for it, and are expendable. There is one distinct difference though. In France outsider Legionnaires are the ones that often have criminal records......in our scenario things are reversed, lol.

[Styles]

Blue Ray - I would like to see some hard data from QAD. The Fire Dept. has always been one of the top rated agencies by the citizens.

[oldhead]

95 or 98% approval rate last time around. Highest in the city.

[NorthSTAR]

WTF does a button up shirt and a name tag have to do with eliminating polo shirts that were also required to have your name embroidered?

[Truth]

97% approval rating.....not bad for a bunch of outsiders...or carpetbaggers(term overheard at a church visit within the last 30 days)

[oldhead]

I guess we, ALL of us, are doing something right.

[Hydro Engineer]

95 or 98% approval rate last time around. Highest in the city.

:D That rating was while we were wearing the T-Shirts:D

[WMIT]

Why are we still complaining about wearing the button up shirts? Let's just do what we do best OUR JOBS!

[Brooks]

Why are we still complaining about wearing the button up shirts? Let's just do what we do best OUR JOBS!

Because they are made of polyester which burns and melts and sticks to your skin. They aren't compliant with the NFPA standard for station wear.

They are also hot and breathe poorly, which exacerbates the physiological stress of the job. Our job is a physical one, and people's lives depend on us being able to perform. Even middle school sports treams wear performance-oriented clothing.

[Confused]

Why are we still complaining about wearing the button up shirts? Let's just do what we do best OUR JOBS!

Spoken like someone who didn't ride the ambo with no AC on a 121 degree day.

[Hydro Engineer]

That's her screen name:D

Why Me It'sThem:D

[WMIT]

Spoken like someone who didn't ride the ambo with no AC on a 121 degree day.

Why does it have to be the Ambo? Maybe I sat in a wagon with no A/C on that day. I just read a post by LT. Dan on another thread. What the Lt was talking about must happen!

I know that thewatchdesk is a good place to vent about the current issues with the dept, but need to be addressing those issues to Ed and the gang up on Bladensburg Rd and let them do what they are paid to do.

Brooks, when we go 3-3-3 my beater car is going to be an old school VW Bug. Do you think it can take the beat down?

[dcfdsid]

Anyone who says that we are in fact going 3-3-3 should be thrown out of local 36 under the charges of "union busting". You are either WITH Local 36 or you are against us. Anyone who helps further an agenda of management that is contradictory to that of local 36 should be thrown out of the local.


Sid

[Hydro Engineer]

Anyone who says that we are in fact going 3-3-3 should be thrown out of local 36 under the charges of "union busting". You are either WITH Local 36 or you are against us. Anyone who helps further an agenda of management that is contradictory to that of local 36 should be thrown out of the local.


Sid

:D:D I Second the Motion:D:D

[Lt. Dan]

By no means was I trying to undermined the Union. The Chief have been going from firehouse to firehouse talking that 3-3-3 BS. The Union has the firefighter's back. But if we want this department to be the best it can be the Union can't do it alone. It is going to take some vigilante type shit to right the ship. Spreading rumors won't help matters. But when I hear a young firefighter almost in tears because he or she doesn't know how long they are going have job, pisses me off. The Chief holding a line up and telling folks that some of them are not going working for DCFEM(Argh!) and expect them to give 100% is ludicrous.

[Hydro Engineer]

Yeah, But he has not come to my firehouse and tell our rookies that. I still Double Dog Dare Him too. :rolleyes:

[oldhead]

Alright, one more time. 3-3-3 won't happen. Getting rid of a shift won't happen. The appointee can say whatever he wants, it's scare tactics to get people to quit, Christ, it's so shit simple it's stupid, just dig your effen heels in and stick around for spite, that pisses him off more than anything because there ain't a GD thing he can do about it AND he knows it. The last administration was all about fear and intimidation, so was the previous one. And the one before that, and the last one andthelastoneandthelastone... Even if the appointee has the full backing of the mayor he can't do what he says he wants without approval from the council. OR the courts, if we have to. And ultimately, he can't do what he says he wants without approval from those dudes in that Capitol dome place. PERIOD. Last I heard, DC was still a prime terrorist target and he says 500 guys are gonna lose their jobs? Please. It's up to all the oldheads on the job who've been through this silly ass "management" before to let all the young guys know what the real scoop is. And to all you young guys I've got a news flash for ya. Even when this appointee leaves it won't be the end of these kinds of threats, there'll be another dipstick "in charge" who will make the same threats later in your career. Trust me, this just how we roll in DC. Like Regs 1 said in an earlier post, with all the unions headquartered in this town they ain't gonna let 1 bureaucrat bust up a union. And neither will a Democrat majority city council. He is making background noise in an effort to get people to quit, and if this is all it takes to get you to quit, please do, we need people with more mettle than that. :cool:

[Greenshield]

Election cycle news headline..."President touts job growth as 500 Firefighters are laid off in his backyard."

[xray]

slick:

redneck:

this come from a coal minor strike movement in WV, like everything else check the history of something first.

xray - same to you before using a term you know zero about, and yes there were WV black coal minors who were rednecks.

Ok regs1 the term redneck that you posted is not the definition that 100% of americans identify with. Redneck is a derogatory term reserved for poor white farmers usually in the south, uneducated, bigot, racist etc.. and I didnt make this up. So when you post dont just give a fraction of the story tell it like it is. There were black soldiers who fought on the confederate side, so I guess they wanted to continue slavery (there were black coal miners who were rednecks>)

[xray]

hey x-ray. on your next detail to the first battalion make sure you log of off twd. you would not want a bunch of other people finding out who you are right now while you spew all these EEO type comments on here. essecially since you are a Sgt and represent the department and using departmental computers while you do it. thats a big no no buddy.

First of all trucky you must have limited time on the job because they took that previledge away years ago(watch desk accessibility). And second if a member is following the rules and regs of the job they have nothing to worry about. We as members dont get to pick and choose what rules were going to follow, if it's policy you follow it period. As for an officer it's not his job to interpret the policy, he is to enforce it whether he agrees with it or not.And third It doesnt matter whether i am who you think I am, if your following the policy set by the leadership regardless of who they are you have nothing to worry about. Buddy

[xray]

Bad attitudes "brought" to DC? That broad statement is as wrong and hardheaded as saying all cadets are worthless. I can't blame most of the "bad attitudes" you speak of for several reason. Now that you are a Sgt. you may not know to what I speak so listen. How easy going are you going to be if you are stuck in a sweat box that is well over 100 degrees on a regular? Couple that with leadership that has demonstrated that they are not concerned about your work conditions, conditions that would not be tolerated in any other regular work setting. Hell if Public Housing has a building that hot people are relocated. The fellas have sucked it up and taken more than most, like you, could imagine. Couple that with the lovely frequent fliers that are wasting valuable time and money and you have a literal pressure cooker ready to explode.

In conclusion, this department has enough "born again workers" to fill a shift. We needn't anymore.

Yeah I agree with your last statement so ill be looking for your resignation any day. Oh and by the way slick blueray and xray are not the same people just food for thought.didnt catch what you were trying to convey (that you are a sgt. you may not know to what I speak so listen) your own words whew

[xray]

Election cycle news headline..."President touts job growth as 500 Firefighters are laid off in his backyard."

Really well this all started with your beloved republican party, you know the melt down of the economy. I'm sorry I guess you forgot about that typical...

[SayWhat?]

I got a little bored this evening Gentlemen, so I did a little of actual research (not wikipedia!)
Seems there are a few differing origins of the term "red neck". I know it's its a long but interesting, I highlighted a few of the interesting parts.

The origins of this term Redneck are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or "Covenanters", largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church.
Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term "Red neck", (rednecks) which became slang for a Scottish dissenter*.(http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/rednecks/rednecks.html)

Heavner Graduate thesis- Graduate College of Marshall University

The label redneck was likely first used as a reference to poor whites in the southern United States because they often suffered from pellagra, a condition resulting from an inadequate diet that causes a red rash to emerge on the “neck and other parts of the body”
Though many entomologies attribute the origins of the term redneck to sun burnt necks that may have been characteristic of white laborers in the south in the early 20th century, Eisiminger argues that this is, in fact, unlikely

Whatever its origins, the label of redneck has functioned both strategically as a disempowering term and tactically as a site of empowerment at different historical moments in the United States. In the mid-nineteenth century, redneck was used as a class slur describing poor white laborers. In Mississippi the term was charged with political meaning when it was leveled specifically at farmers lobbying for populist reforms (Huber & Drowne, 2001: 434). Interestingly, Huber and Drowne (2001) present evidence that farmers adopted the term as a self-label, identification with which marked political opposition to the Bourbon Democrats who underrepresented their rural interests. Redneck, in contrast to a slur, was rearticulated as a symbol of class solidarity and political organization (435).

A similar movement of redneck between being an otherizing and empowering term can be observed in its usage to refer to Appalachian coal miners.
Huber (1994) notes that “during the 1930s, redneck specifically meant ‘Communist’ (107, emphasis in original) when used as an epithet in reference to union miners, especially those on strike. Huber discusses the duality of the term in the context of the red handkerchiefs miners often wore around their necks:
Coal miners (...) wore the kerchiefs for the purpose of keeping the gritty coal dust off their necks, from down their workshirts, and out of their noses and mouths. But (...) the red handkerchief was doubly protective. In response to their derisive nickname, union coal miners rehabilitated and proudly adopted the name rednecks as a badge of honor. Union coal miners of West Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania fashioned a working-class identity and solidarity around the nickname redneck and the red bandanna, one of the oldest symbols of the labor movement in the United States. Thus, the red bandanna not only protected miners from the hazards of coal dust, it also marked a group identity and consciousness – another form of protection (108).
The term was adopted, Huber (1994) notes, across racial and ethnic lines by miners as a marker of solidarity against mine operators, their hired security, and scab workers. This negotiation of redneck illuminates it as a historically important site of struggle between classes; a struggle with great potential to empower working class people and focus attention on economic inequity.
(http://www.marshall.edu/etd/masters/heavner-brent-2006-ma.pdf)

[Outofdaloop]

Really well this all started with your beloved republican party, you know the melt down of the economy. I'm sorry I guess you forgot about that typical...

Actually the melt down of the economy was due to the housing bubble collapse. The housing bubble collapsed because in 1978 the Carter Administration along with a Democratic Congress passed the Fair Housing Act.
(not positive of the full correct name)

The Clinton Administration along with a Democratic Congress expanded the act to include more people.

In essence they were forcing Banks to give home mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. Those unsustainable mortgages were then backed up by quasi-government entities Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

In 2006 the Bush Administration attempted to reign in and reform Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. Only to be blocked in doing so by a Democratic Congress.

These mortgages were then bundled together as "investment portfolios" and sold on Wall Street. When the housing bubble burst and these mortgages were shown to be essentially worthless it caused a calamitous reaction on Wall Street and in the financial world.

So while the mostly liberal media likes to blame Bush and the Republicans the financial meltdown was in fact due mostly to Democrats.

[xray]

Actually the melt down of the economy was due to the housing bubble collapse. The housing bubble collapsed because in 1978 the Carter Administration along with a Democratic Congress passed the Fair Housing Act.
(not positive of the full correct name)

The Clinton Administration along with a Democratic Congress expanded the act to include more people.

In essence they were forcing Banks to give home mortgages to people who couldn't afford it. Those unsustainable mortgages were then backed up by quasi-government entities Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

In 2006 the Bush Administration attempted to reign in and reform Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. Only to be blocked in doing so by a Democratic Congress.

These mortgages were then bundled together as "investment portfolios" and sold on Wall Street. When the housing bubble burst and these mortgages were shown to be essentially worthless it caused a calamitous reaction on Wall Street and in the financial world.

So while the mostly liberal media likes to blame Bush and the Republicans the financial meltdown was in fact due mostly to Democrats.

You didnt mention deregulation that's the repub's baby(enron along others had nothing to do with the housing market)

[Greenshield]

Really well this all started with your beloved republican party, you know the melt down of the economy. I'm sorry I guess you forgot about that typical...

Get things straight please. I am not a member of the Republican party, but I am a republican. :D We are all guaranteed this form of government at the State level and I proudly convey this. The President got everything he wanted via a full Democrat Congress for his first year and a half, seemed to work lol. Republicans are big spenders too, but call things as they are. Democrats had Congress from 2007 on to January 2011 and held the purse strings. Republicans got the House after that and haven't changed anything. It's not a question of whom holds the "power" to change or manage the "economy", but whether that power even exists (which it doesn't).

[Brooks]

Green - as written, 'republican' means nothing more than 'res publica', government by the people - in contradistinction from government by monarch, tyrant, central party, etc. When the governing body is sufficiently large and representative of the public, it's a representative democracy. When the governing body is small, and non-representative, it's a oligarchy. I'm not sure where the dividing line is.

As for the financial melt down: it was a chain of events. Yes, the democrats 'forced' the banks to lend to more people, except in Texas, where they didn't. And Texas didn't have a real-estate melt down. So I guess they didn't really *force* the banks to make bad loans after all, so much as to *allow* them to.

And the Republicans did deregulate the banks. They allowed them several accounting methods that, as a matter of practice, ended reserve requirements for the lending banks. Most importantly, they dropped the wall between the investment banks and the retail banks. These financial entities, now without any requirements to maintain reserves, lent money that they didn't have. This has been going on for centuries, but these banks had NONE of the money they lent, where they used to have SOME of the money they lent - reserve requirements. These banks were leveraged to the hilt. They felt good about the risk, though, because they had money coming in faster than it was going out, and they had most of their income insured, through a method called the CREDIT DEFAULT SWAP. Except the companies offering the insurance didn't have reserve requirements, and in fact, didn't have the money to cover the 'insurance claim', when people and companies finally stopped paying their loans. That's where the dam broke.

Of course, in texas, they didn't have this problem, as much. Texas still REGULATED their banks -- requiring mortgages to be limited at 80% of the value of the house.

So, from my perspective, both the D's and the R's are to blame for the mess, they're both bought and paid for by the very banks they are supposed to regulate. Since we're obviously unwilling to let these banks fail, we have got to be willing to regulate them so that 1) they don't fail - they need reserve requirements and 2) so that they don't get Too Big to Fail.

That is all.

[oldhead]

Don't forget the greedy fucks on Wall Street. They were in on it too. As for the pack of assholes called the Democrats, Republicans, and Tea Baggers, their philosophies can be summed up in this manner: The Democrats think government can solve everything, the Republicans want to privatize everything and cut everything poor people use, and the Tea Baggers don't want any government at all. And then you have the politicians who claim to be one of the three but are really in it for themselves. :mad:

[Brooks]

Oldhead, i think you nailed it.

[fd141]

Oldhead.... SUPER explanation!!!! Can't argue the FACTS!!!

[xray]

Don't forget the greedy fucks on Wall Street. They were in on it too. As for the pack of assholes called the Democrats, Republicans, and Tea Baggers, their philosophies can be summed up in this manner: The Democrats think government can solve everything, the Republicans want to privatize everything and cut everything poor people use, and the Tea Baggers don't want any government at all. And then you have the politicians who claim to be one of the three but are really in it for themselves. :mad:

old head are u disgruntled? you are funny as hell

[oldhead]

Hahaha I got over disgruntled a long time ago because no one gives a shit if you're disgruntled. I go for funny 'cause, well, it's funny. And I can't take all the credit for my previous post, the part about Republicans wanting to privatize everything came from Brooks.

[oldhead]

You know what else is funny too? The freakin' truth. But ya gotta be kinda fucked up to see the humor in that. :p

[Greenshield]

I am very aware of the root words Brooks, thanks. I am more referring to what the founders included in the Constitution and why they did it. I was also making the point that a republican is very different from a Republican. Whilst the context is not obvious to some, it was to me and still not you.

Old, where does the Tea Party wanting no government come from? I have atteneded many rallies and meetings and have yet to meet an Anarchist. In fact they loathe our movement for it calls for LIMITED and CONSTITUTIONAL government. Not the Leviathan we have today. IF one were to pin a label on me it would be the classical liberal most likely or a paleo-libertarian of sort. The Democrat and Republican parties are of the same cloth. They both seek to have you live their respective ways utilizing the power of the governments at different levels. They argue (not to bring up something from earlier) over whom has the power this time, accepting the false premise that such a power exists.

Government is a necessary evil. Without any one has no private property rights. For there is no method to recognize or protect borders, possessions,etc. Without private property rights you are not nor can you ever be free/libertine, for you are burdened with liability to depend on forces outside your personal interest to survive. On the other extreme you have too much government which also does not allow for an environment of private property rights along with all ( and more) listed problems to liberty for there is maximum persuasion. Evil must be watched, contained, and limited, hence it's relationship to government.

[xray]

green man you go way to deep for this site

[oldhead]

I just like simplifying to the absolute lowest, common, most moronic denominator.

[HookHomo]

Old head, The Tea party is for LIMITED Government!! I myself am a Conservative. Most of you on here sound like Pussy fence riders who want to please both sides. That is the problem, you can't please both sides. Pick a F#cking team and stand up for what you believe.
The Liberals(who are democrats) are destroying this country right before our eyes, and a majority of people don't care or are too busy watching American Idol. Wake the F#CK up!!. We can not survive another 4 years of Barrack Hussain Obama policies. That's right, his policies!! I don't care what color he is Xray. I don't like his policies! just like I don't care for Chief Ellerbes' policies. Black Americans in this country have been bamboozled by the Democratic party!. They throw a few entitlement your way and you submit to there power, keeping you complacent and no better off.WAKE UP!!

[HookHomo]

How are Truck Companies members like welfare recipients???

They get a check for doing absolutely nothing, and think they're entitled to it. LOL

[xray]

Old head, The Tea party is for LIMITED Government!! I myself am a Conservative. Most of you on here sound like Pussy fence riders who want to please both sides. That is the problem, you can't please both sides. Pick a F#cking team and stand up for what you believe.
The Liberals(who are democrats) are destroying this country right before our eyes, and a majority of people don't care or are too busy watching American Idol. Wake the F#CK up!!. We can not survive another 4 years of Barrack Hussain Obama policies. That's right, his policies!! I don't care what color he is Xray. I don't like his policies! just like I don't care for Chief Ellerbes' policies. Black Americans in this country have been bamboozled by the Democratic party!. They throw a few entitlement your way and you submit to there power, keeping you complacent and no better off.WAKE UP!!

The tea party huh, limited government i see. Lets look at this, where were the tea party when bush spent billions several years ago. Were they around back than? it's funny because if they were they weren't prominent.Now the fact that they are ubiquitous now is it a coincidence? I get tired of people hiding behind the constitution to parlay what they really want to say. The constitution is a work in progress document it gaurantees everyone life liberty and so on. Well you have to pick sides and I agree with that,but taken what we have to work with you choose the lesser of two evils. History lesson at one time blacks followed the republican party from around lincoln's tenure upto when roosevelt (a democrate) took office.Point democrates are for working class and union's, republican's are for the wealthy. Not to demonize the rich but they don't need healthy tax breaks. Bush's policies didn't work under deregulation(i.e. ENRON) the country was already in a tail spin his last year you dont remember?. Better be lucky D.C. isn't a state and mostly republican or your beloved local 36 would be toothless. Lastly there are tea partiers who wouldn't mind going back to the old days of inequity. Oh yeah just pull it up on you tube and look at some of their signs and how they express themselves. Some of them are the enemy of the country because anyone who would like to see the country fail is a terrorist, tea partiers included.(they have said it on tape)

[dcfdsid]

XRAY Don't you mean "our" beloved Local 36?

Sid

[xray]

XRAY Don't you mean "our" beloved Local 36?

Sid

youre reading way too much into it.

[dcfdsid]

youre reading way too much into it.

You are either With US (local 36) Or against us. If you are supportive of the chief in his efforts to work against the goals of our labor organization, then you should be brought up on charges of union busting and should be thrown out.

Where do you stand?

Sid

[xray]

oh yeah hookhomo, bush(a republican) didnt care about black people(katrina). Ever wonder why the demographics of the republican and tea party crowds look the way they do?(non inclusive) Democratic party is a melting pot of society. They extend themselves to there fellow man, that's why people follow them.And stop bringing up words like recipients(well fare) because contrary to YOUR believe there are more whites on well fare than blacks. Yes there are more white s than blacks in the country of course. But when people say that, they make it seem like " We" (blacks) are the largest benefactors which is furthest from the truth.Dont want to turn this into a post about race, but since hook made a reference to it had to respond.

[Hydro Engineer]

oh yeah hookhomo, bush(a republican) didnt care about black people(katrina). Ever wonder why the demographics of the republican and tea party crowds look the way they do?(non inclusive)

:mad:So are you saying that if you are a Republican, you do not care about black people?:eek: I take offense to that:mad:

And it is OUR UNION and if you don't feel like it is and support this ridiculous Administrator then quit the J.O.B. and go work directly for him.

So what are your "3 things" that he has done to BENEFIT the membership

[xray]

You are either With US (local 36) Or against us. If you are supportive of the chief in his efforts to work against the goals of our labor organization, then you should be brought up on charges of union busting and should be thrown out.

Where do you stand?

Sid

That's an easy one I stand behind the Chief, I know some of you would like to think that you represent the majority by saying "US". But your opinion only represent a fraction of the department. So stop making it seem like everybody do not like the current chief or his policies. Believe me there are just as many supporters, they just don't waste time here going back forth like me. Why? because it's interesting and intertaining to see how people really feel behind closed doors. And i'm not putting everyone in a box,because there are some level headed people on this job black,white,democrat and republican.

[xray]

:mad:So are you saying that if you are a Republican, you do not care about black people?:eek: I take offense to that:mad:

And it is OUR UNION and if you don't feel like it is and support this ridiculous Administrator then quit the J.O.B. and go work directly for him.

So what are your "3 things" that he has done to BENEFIT the membership

1. He cut back on wasteful spending(i.e. take home cars,excessive overtime)
2. Gave opportunity to members who otherwise wouldn't have had a chance to grow under the last administration. ("Acting")'.
3. Enhanced our professional visibilty to the public (by making members respect the uniform wear it properly.)

Ok I gave you (3) it's funny how when I ask the question no one had nothing to say. hmmmm. Oh and by the way hydro, I do work for the chief and so do you unless you work for a different department. Are you still with D.C.?

[HookHomo]

xray, you are a racist! I have no doubt. everything you post has some sort of race bating B.S. You are soooo far gone that you can not be helped. I will not even attempt to entertain your post anymore.

[xray]

xray, you are a racist! I have no doubt. everything you post has some sort of race bating B.S. You are soooo far gone that you can not be helped. I will not even attempt to entertain your post anymore.

I said I was goin to hibernate, but first let me set the record straight you piece of work(being nice). First I dont care what you think because you don't know me. If you did than you would no that. Like I said before people allways running there soup coolers and dont know sh@t.I tell you what, bet you cant find anyone who can corroborate your statement. I'm talking about people who really know me, so what your kicking is some bull. Your radar perception needs to be adjusted because you are way off.Good thing I dont live my life based on what someone else think or their perception of me, I would never prosper. So with that said, when I did bring up race I was stating facts or given a rebuttal to someone's post. I'm gone

[Tk_3_Barman]

Xray,
The only reason he has "actors" is to save money, not to help the members.

[Tk_3_Barman]

And by the way that was not a smart ass answer, it was truthful.

[xray]

And by the way that was not a smart ass answer, it was truthful.

TK 3 you are partially right, but there are member's who act now who would not and did not act under shultz and that's a fact. So that was my point members were given opportunity they didn't have under the previous administration. Look around TK, gotta admit you see new faces acting(chiefs) and it's spread around atleast give me that. So that's what I meant by my statement of actors. OK TK 3 BAR, I'm out for good stay safe!

[DCHVFD]

the country was already in a tail spin his last year you dont remember?.

Xray, you are absolutely correct! In-fact, I would say that it started to go down hill the last two years he was in office. Maybe it had to do with the fact that Democrats controlled both the House and Senate in his final two years and continued that way through the first two years of Obama's presidency. We have had 4 years to get this country straight with their political agenda and yet we have achieved NOTHING. Just stating a fact!

[Greenshield]

3. Enhanced our professional visibilty to the public (by making members respect the uniform wear it properly.)


Had a citizen come up to me in tears last night after a box. She was thankful for us and admired our bravery "just like the firemen who went in to the towers, you guys are so brave". She did not mention our uniform, appearance, or our anything other than our performance. She hugged me in tears and she was

1) Black and I am white

2) not originally from this country but professed love for it and the "brave firemen" which she was confident would be there to save her.

None of our physical differences or appearances mattered to her (or me for that matter) What mattered was that we did our job and did it well. She made an impact on me that I will not soon or ever forget. Her single expression renewed my love for what we do like nothing else could have.

Democratic party is a melting pot of society. They extend themselves to there fellow man, that's why people follow them.
Sermon over.

Yeah, look at all the "diversity" in the "new" residents' neighborhoods (whom are mostly Democrat) after a few years of them coming in.


Point democrates are for working class and union's,

Now that is some funny stuff, lol. Nancy Pelosi, Ried, Kerry, Obama. Yeah all working class people whom only hire union help. Hoffa makes 300K a year. Nice point X. FYI Kerry is the wealthiest person in all of Congress. Not that I am hating on him for it, but facts are facts. Socialism is for the people, not the Socialist.

[Greenshield]

Some of them are the enemy of the country because anyone who would like to see the country fail is a terrorist, tea partiers included.(they have said it on tape)


I guess we all had our eyes peeled for Tea Partiers setting car bombs for the past couple of days, lol.

[Truth]

oh yeah hookhomo, bush(a republican) didnt care about black people(katrina).

Are you that dumb. Bush had nothing to do with that. That falls squarely on the Mayor of New Orleans and the Govenor. But it sounds better to blame Bush. No use letting facts get in the way of a good story, right X....

[HOOKMAN]

Truth...though being ranked on the promotional exam doesn't reflect on your true intelligence, however, before you call someone dumb, what was your rank on the promotional exam??????....I believe you weren't in the top 10 nor were you in the top 20.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[xray]

Are you that dumb. Bush had nothing to do with that. That falls squarely on the Mayor of New Orleans and the Govenor. But it sounds better to blame Bush. No use letting facts get in the way of a good story, right X....

Yeah like what u type is more pure than someone's else statement. spare me with your imagination!

[xray]

I guess we all had our eyes peeled for Tea Partiers setting car bombs for the past couple of days, lol.

Green apparently you are blind, next time you see a tea party rally or a republican convention its evident that its not an inclusive party(melting pot). You act as though im making this up, a sprinkle here a dash there. A melting pot is a lil of everything not 90:1. You can't dispute the numbers when it comes to the democrat's followers. Not gonna turn this into a political debate because it has nothing to do with firefighting. There are (2) things in society that people rarely agree on and that's religion and politics.And with that said green, my point was to say that most minorities do not follow the repub's, its about there doctrine.

[xray]

Are you that dumb. Bush had nothing to do with that. That falls squarely on the Mayor of New Orleans and the Govenor. But it sounds better to blame Bush. No use letting facts get in the way of a good story, right X....

So I guess the mayor activates or tells FEMA when to respond to there state during a national or local disaster. I thought the pres. always pulled that lever, whoops! or maybe bush didnt know he had that power. Maybe that's why it took almost a week for fema to be activated, even after being begged by mayor Ray Nagin. Yeah I blame bush for not being efficient.

[Greenshield]

X, I am not a minority and I do not follow the Republicans. It's about the Tea Party, if I remember. Come to an event and you will see what the media will show not in regards to physical skin color differences (like they even matter). You are person "A", whom has never been to a Tea Party event that I know of, telling me... person "B"... involved in the Tea Party from day one what the Tea Party is all about. Interesting. Further more you call people like Nancy Pelosi, Barrack Obama, and John Kerri "for the working man and unions" when none of them ever were the "working man" or Union Members that I know of. When was the last time you met, talked to, or even worked with them? . In the same breath you then accuse me, a working man, union member whom works the same job as you(and you have free access to) as being a terrorist and against you...more interesting.

[The BRC]

64698Yeah I blame bush for not being efficient.


Bus lot in New Orleans, mind you that the warning to leave was issued almost 96 hours before the levee failed, looks like the local government waited for someone else to do something instead of self preserving.

Just like the folks in New York who stood on the curb watching the guy die, while he was trapped under the car and the folks in Utah actually pick the car up and removed the guy and watched in him live. Some people wait for people to do things for them and other people take action.

[DvlsAdvct]

I guess Mother Nature is the true hater in the Katrina issue. She's a no good biggot....lol. But maybe, just maybe, Bush was in on it too. Perhaps they had a secret meeting and planned it all.

[DvlsAdvct]

As for Shutlz, he had his issues I guess. And he wouldnt let some act. Maybe his concern was somebody not all that qualified running a major, nations capital, DC incident and fucking it up. Its not like the press wouldnt notice. Maybe a bad IC can get guys killed too, its not hard to notice when a fireground sounds like its being run properly and when it isnt. Some of the actors and newly promoted are really, honestly good. Some also sound like total dip shits on the radio and couldnt manage a snowball stand. Just sayin.

[regs1]

DvlsAdvct

Being one of those who acted for a number of years before Shultz, and was on the receiving end of his decision making process; he made decisions based on his own opinion of a person qualifications especially if you were a friend of his or not, if you question any of his decision, bang you a bad guy who suddenly knows nothing, and all of a sudden you could not act, hell if you ever question the rube or wrote a special report about a decision, you were removed from the acting list, and all of a sudden you were unqualified for promotion.
I can go on with a lot of items about Shultz, but I decided to move on in life and forget about people like him. To me what goes around comes around, and he will get what he deserves.

The one question I do have is what the rube is and Shultz doing today, last look the rube is on the speaking circuit, not idea what larry is doing.

[HOOKMAN]

regs.....your right on the $$$$ about questioning Uncle Larry and Daddy Dennis......As far as what they're doing today, I can say Dennis Pubin's name is DIRT around the country, hence why nobody's hired him....As far as her speaking goes, even that's dried up a bit....However, I'm sure some poor department out there will fall victim and will be suckered into to having him speak about the same things he FAILED in doing here in DC.....I do know one thing and that Denise drives a Toyota Matrix....LOL.......Hmmm Larry....hopefully some guy is bending him over and and is balls deep into his rectal region, just like the select few on the job, who had their heads neck deep inside it.....I'm sure HookHomo has had to DECON herself after inspecting Uncle Lawrence's colon......right precious angel;)

[Confused]

Can we drop the politics talk? When will we all realize that party affiliation means nothing, the only thing that runs this country is who buys the people in office?

You either have money or you don't, there's your political party for you.

[Confused]

On the Rubin/Shultz subject, I'd like to add 2 things, keeping in mind that I never drank their koolaid.

1. We gained 400 jobs, never lost an FTE, and never had to worry about all this shift change bullshit talk scaretactic.

2. Correct me if I am wrong, they put into effect a battalion chief promotion policy that to my knowledge was not utilized on this latest batch of promotions.

[Loo for life]

To clear the apparent lack of understanding the process for FEMA involvement back then was as follows....

FEMA ie. the Federal Government cannot send help to any State without an official request from the Gov. of said State.... The Governer of Lousianana refused the advanced placement of Supplies request by FEMA until it was too late....

The evacuation of New Orleans was the responsibility of the Mayor approximately 600 School Buses were flooded wouldn't they have moved well over 25,000 from Ward 9 the most vulnerable area hit by that event!!!


So these facts should allow you to reasonably understand that regardless of what you read in the press reports it was not in fact Bush who caused that problem but a Hurricanne and inept Government on all levels....

Other than 9-11 I really didn't care for Bush either but blame goes where it is supposed too!!

[HOOKMAN]

Confused...the department never lost an FTE because Mendelson kept hammering Rubin at every hearing to fill the vacancies...that's no pat on the back for anything Rubin did. One thing Rubin did do and with the help of the now retired AFC/Services, was overspend, mismanaged money and not follow the small procurement process when bidding out contracts for items and services so Dennis could benefit from pals like Steve Edwards of MFRI....hey, you want to go to Sosua, sure how much do you need....hey, let me boost moral and go back to the old patch, however, I don't have money budgeted for this expenditure...well. Its ok because I have my hand in the pot with the company who makes them, so I'm really benefiting for Dennis, but the troops will think I'm a great guy....oh let's see....under Dennis the great, there was $2million budgeted for the NFPA shirts that everyone wants to have...guess what....Dennis and Co. used that $$ for who knows what....that right there when talking about budget woes, cannot be put on the new administration....people seem to forget what a low life arrogant POS Rubin was and the budget mess he left behind...Thank Rubin and Al Jeffrey at the next retirement dinner they're at...

As for the last promotions, its my understanding, those who were promoted/acting, were those that were qualified for them...not sure about any policy and if it was used or not....

[Confused]

Hook I watched your situation unfold on television like most and was pained to see you disrespected the way you were, particularly when your child was inolved, I don't know your entire situation but I do think there were things mishandled in it's process.

That being said I think because of that happening you view everything from that time with rubinhating colored glasses, and no matter the positive you're going to have a hurt negative spin, I understand, I truly do, but I also understand that the last 4 years weren't 100% negative.

[HOOKMAN]

I appreciate that Confused....I really don't care to talk about the past regime, but when I hear their names mentioned, I guess I tend to unravel a bit....trust me, I've moved on and don't think about them one bit...yes, I've been through my share of turbulence the last few years, but that's now behind me and I'm just looking forward to moving on...Though maybe not 100%, I just wanted to put out there, that the previous administration did a lot of damage and that carried over to the present one. As for the present administration and everyone's concerns, complaints etc., ill check with my sources first before feeding off the rumors...I look at things a little different now and if I have any problems, ill deal with them directly and more than likely, I won't air it out on hear....It would be nice for a change to go back to the old watchdesk when it was actually fun to post about meaningless things...all I can do is hope

[xray]

X, I am not a minority and I do not follow the Republicans. It's about the Tea Party, if I remember. Come to an event and you will see what the media will show not in regards to physical skin color differences (like they even matter). You are person "A", whom has never been to a Tea Party event that I know of, telling me... person "B"... involved in the Tea Party from day one what the Tea Party is all about. Interesting. Further more you call people like Nancy Pelosi, Barrack Obama, and John Kerri "for the working man and unions" when none of them ever were the "working man" or Union Members that I know of. When was the last time you met, talked to, or even worked with them? . In the same breath you then accuse me, a working man, union member whom works the same job as you(and you have free access to) as being a terrorist and against you...more interesting.

Green I dont think your a terrorist that's foolish, but look at wisconsin a repub gov. has broken down a union there. That is one of my examples of the repubs not being for the working man. And the trend is spreading, it appears that the repubs are spear heading that movement that's all im saying.

[The BRC]

but look at wisconsin a repub gov. has broken down a union there. That is one of my examples of the repubs not being for the working man. And the trend is spreading, it appears that the repubs are spear heading that movement that's all im saying.


Its not union busting. The fine folks of Wisconsin pay absolutely nothing toward there benefits, ie retirement, healthcare, etc. The governor asked government type labor unions to contribute money, much like you do X-ray as a District employee, or the state would face bankruptcy in the near future. The labor unions thought it was outrageous that they would have to actually contribute to their pensions! Henceforth the stand off began.

[Loo for life]

OK while I agree that the fight is on regarding retirements and benefits let us look at history...

1. Late 1970's Democratic Members of the DC Council and Mayors office... changed our retirement program... 20 & anytime (3% every year after 20) to 25 & 50 (3% every year after 25) Understand there was a major unfunded liability but regardless it was led by Democrats

2. Mid 1980's Democrat administration tried to cut FTE's failed due to Congressional action (Repub and Dem)

3. Mid 1980's Member health benefits changed to DC from Fed program limited choice however members paid 5% less for the lesser choices Democratic Administration

4. Early 1990's Democrat Mayor and Council sucessfully disband 3 companies and cut 32 more two piece engine companies and manning from Truck Companies

5. Early 1990's Court settlement creates a fourth platoon, done battling a Democratic Administration

6. Mid 1990's Retirement changes again Federal portion of retirement liability funded and retirement adjusted again to be 25 yrs straight but only 2.5% per year regarless.... Repub and Dems on Capitol Hill

Oh wait we supported and worked for this current Mayor and now the current man in charge wants to cut a shift wait, wait oh yeah a Democrat....

Many more little attacks on DCFD and it's members by DEMOCRATS so they are no friend to the working man either.... Most recent lil David Catania tried to attack our Pension he is a liberal democrat....

As a person VOTE for individuals not parties...

In the end Xray you cannot trust any politician they are out for one thingand one thing only re-election....Trust and work from within and support the Union they are truly your only LINE OF DEFENSE!!!!!

Retired Loo for life :cool:

[Brooks]

Don't confuse local politics for national.

There is a national movement among the GOP to restrict bargaining rights, to privatize government functions, and to reduce government worker's pay and benefits.

In Wisconsin, the unions may have had a great contract, but the GOP decided to overrule the existing contract, by passing legislation; and to limit public employee's bargaining rights. You may disagree with the contract they had bargained for, but it was a contract.

DC politicians have cut us, and, more or less, all DC politicians are liberal democrats. Catania, who, as Loo pointed out, attacked our pension, was originally elected as a Republican. He was kicked out of the GOP for opposing restricting marriage rights for gays, and now runs as an independent. He's about as conservative as you get on the DC council.

DC politics are awful. The union opposed the re-election of Fenty because he wouldn't even meet with us for a contract. The other unions also opposed fenty for his anti-labor stances. Gray didn't beat Fenty, Fenty beat Fenty. AFAIK, Gray hasn't supported the loss of the fourth platoon group -- the rumor is that Gray's position is that the FD is fully funded and doesn't need to save any money.

Local politics are often more bound by reality and practical politics than national politics are -- in national politics, candidates can be more ideological. Local governments are more bound by finances than state & national governments are. At the time the DC council cut our pay & benefits, it was because it was more expedient to cut our benefits than to cut other government programs. As long as we are 'weaker' than other programs, they will continue to do so.

Politicians of all stripes will use you for what your worth, and give you the minimum in return. The GOP is actively trying to reduce your pay, benefits, pension, and ability to collectively bargain. The Democrats (nationally) are not.

[HookHomo]

xray, the unions have devastated this country!. Very few companies can afford to pay what unions demand. So what do you get??? outsourcing of jobs to other countries or right to work states. Look at Detroit for example,(which has been a democrat run city for years and years and years) That city is now a third world country thanks to the unions and democrats. If you look at any city, in this Great Country of ours having economic woes. There is sure to be a union and a democrat mayor involved.
As for the democrats being a "melting pot and diverse party" What a JOKE!! Last time I looked around D.C. I surely didn't see a melting pot. What happened to all the diversity xray??? Ooooh yea, it was pushed out to P.G. and other surrounding counties by the so called "diverse, melting pot, working man, union supporting, and lets not forget tolerant" white liberal democrats, who have taken over the "Chocolate City" in droves!!
Maybe you can blame Bush for that also. :eek:

[HookHomo]

Brooks, you are one hell of a fence rider!!!You should be a politician!

[regs1]

HookHomo:

I guess your against local 36, and the current contract;

I also guess that you will accept a 56 hour work week with a 25% pay cut, and an increase in what you pay for major medical.

Since no union, no contract, I also guess that you endorse a new promotion policy, and have a random lotto drawing each year for advancement.

NOT A FACT- but can happen without a union.

[HOOKMAN]

regs....don't waste your breath with HookHomo, she's the OIC on the reserve property van and her views are quite irrelevant.....

[Outofdaloop]

OK while I agree that the fight is on regarding retirements and benefits let us look at history...

1. Late 1970's Democratic Members of the DC Council and Mayors office... changed our retirement program... 20 & anytime (3% every year after 20) to 25 & 50 (3% every year after 25) Understand there was a major unfunded liability but regardless it was led by Democrats

2. Mid 1980's Democrat administration tried to cut FTE's failed due to Congressional action (Repub and Dem)

3. Mid 1980's Member health benefits changed to DC from Fed program limited choice however members paid 5% less for the lesser choices Democratic Administration

4. Early 1990's Democrat Mayor and Council sucessfully disband 3 companies and cut 32 more two piece engine companies and manning from Truck Companies

5. Early 1990's Court settlement creates a fourth platoon, done battling a Democratic Administration

6. Mid 1990's Retirement changes again Federal portion of retirement liability funded and retirement adjusted again to be 25 yrs straight but only 2.5% per year regarless.... Repub and Dems on Capitol Hill

Oh wait we supported and worked for this current Mayor and now the current man in charge wants to cut a shift wait, wait oh yeah a Democrat....

Many more little attacks on DCFD and it's members by DEMOCRATS so they are no friend to the working man either.... Most recent lil David Catania tried to attack our Pension he is a liberal democrat....

As a person VOTE for individuals not parties...

In the end Xray you cannot trust any politician they are out for one thingand one thing only re-election....Trust and work from within and support the Union they are truly your only LINE OF DEFENSE!!!!!

Retired Loo for life :cool:

Don't forget when Congress tried to legislate the closed companies and lost manning back to existence it was the Democrat party who defeated it.

Led by the infamous Eleanor Holmes "Nofriend" who said "My grandaddy was a fireman, don't tell me how to run a fire department...
The DCFD is the most feather-bedded fire department in the country"

Losers all!

[Brooks]

DC Local Dems are no friend to the FD. There really aren't any DC Republicans, but they probably wouldn't be our friends either.

Catania, who attacked our pension, was elected as a Republican. He got kicked out for supporting the rights of gays. He's now an independent.

If you want local pols to be our friends, we have to be able to sway votes.

Nationally, the GOP is attacking the right to organize and the right to collectively bargain, as well as attacking public employee pensions, salaries, and benefits.

Nationally, the Democrats are not.

You have the choice between two evils. One is actively trying to take your pension from you.

[HookHomo]

regs1, I understand the need for unions, they are a necessary evil, but they were created for the private sector not the public sector. Some have destroyed the private sector with outlandish demands that can not possibly be met.
I support our local 100%. They do a great job but, It's mostly if not all politics when it comes to our negotiations.
I'm just speaking the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.

[HookHomo]

Hooksissy, No one was talking to you! Shut your pie hole unless spoken to

[regs1]

HookHomo:

the union need is still there, what has happen in a lot of cities and states is not the pension plan is bad, but the politics behind the pension funding.

The pension if they were funded properly would not be in the bind they are in today, Many mayors, statesmen, and other elected official did not deposit the pension funds when they were supposed to. They relied upon the bankers, and stock brokers who told them that interest, and stock gains will pay the difference, so no deposit made, funds spend on other "worthwhile programs". Spin forward, no real interest gain, stocks tanked, the funds that were supposed to be paid in - gone.

Are the unions to blame for this for getting the benefits for it members, or the politicians who made the decision not to deposit the funds.

This type of item almost happen here in DC, the city at one time was going the same route, the city has problems, congress brought in some very smart people came in and then we had a control board who "oversee DC gov't" , This board forced a fix upon the federal government, and the city. Today one of the items that will bring back the control board is the unfunded pension liability. Hopefully the city will never see the control board again.

Now for the truth about Unions, union benefits – I can only quote of congressmen from Texas who under congressional testimony stated:

“All truth is subject to interpretation”

[Brooks]

What is it called when you support one standard for yourself and another for someone else?

[Outofdaloop]

The Union saved numerous DCFD jobs when some other genius decided it was a good idea to get rid of a platoon and go back to a 3 platoon system.

The municipal unions are even more necessary than in the private sector. In the private sector there is a bottom line. The owner is looking to make a profit and he needs the workers to help out. If he attacks the union and it's workers and it affects him making money then he is forced to negotiate.

In the public sector there is NO bottom line. There is no owner that needs to keep his business profitable. There is no incentive to keep the peace. Strikes are illegal(in most cases) and the municipal leaders will do whatever they want. Consequences be damned.

One previous administration's top manager stated in a meeting with DCFD members "You're the Fire Department. We know we can cut you and no matter what you'll still get the job done."

The problem with Unions, on the national level, is that they have become a huge financier of Democrat causes. Especially the larger national unions. The Republicans have decided to attack this money pipeline to lessen the amount of money in the democrat coffers.

[HookHomo]

Outofdaloop, That is my point. In the public sector, the government will do what they want, when they want, and how they want. Yes, they throw us a bone every once in a while but in the end it's all about what's good for them. Look at Fenty for example. He wouldn't even meet with union reps because he knew we couldn't do a damn thing about it. Our union negotiates for us, and works very hard at it, but in the end it doesn't matter how much negotiating they do, the government will do what they want.
In the private sector, you can strike, work slow down, sick out etc. many different things to get your negotiations met.

[DCFD-Gumby]

What is it called when you support one standard for yourself and another for someone else?

The Republican Party? I like to give a shout out to Brooks and anyone else who rode the Hazmat. Especially those who showed up with their pajamas and iPad2s only to be told they had to ride E12.

[Outofdaloop]

Outofdaloop, That is my point. In the public sector, the government will do what they want, when they want, and how they want. Yes, they throw us a bone every once in a while but in the end it's all about what's good for them. Look at Fenty for example. He wouldn't even meet with union reps because he knew we couldn't do a damn thing about it. Our union negotiates for us, and works very hard at it, but in the end it doesn't matter how much negotiating they do, the government will do what they want.
In the private sector, you can strike, work slow down, sick out etc. many different things to get your negotiations met.

Yes but without the unity and negotiating power of a union the Municipality would be able to do much more damage. And most of the benefits of the present would be non existent.

As I stated if not for the Union the DCFD would have laid off over 100 guys and would be a platoon shorter than it is now, almost 20 years later.

Unfortunately they will try to screw ya and if not for the real AND perceived power and influence of the Union they would get away with it.

[Loo for life]

Outofdaloop is 100% correct..... Over the 29+ yrs on the job the Union has saved us too many times than I can count, some of you need to closely review the history of Local 36 it has had a powerful hand in the political mix!

Hookhomo you must remember we are a bird of a different color we have 2 Masters to deal with and that has hurt and helped us several times in our glorius past.

It saved us from things that were evident and things that many of the rank and file never paid attention too Kenny Cox and Co. spent numerous hours cultivating contacts on Penn. Ave @ District Building and at the US Capitol.

Just because the last several years have been unimpressive doesn't mean that the Local cannot return to the glory years it takes an interested and active membership to do it. Question FD Management, question the politicians and question the Local that is how it is supposed to work!;)

[xray]

xray, the unions have devastated this country!. Very few companies can afford to pay what unions demand. So what do you get??? outsourcing of jobs to other countries or right to work states. Look at Detroit for example,(which has been a democrat run city for years and years and years) That city is now a third world country thanks to the unions and democrats. If you look at any city, in this Great Country of ours having economic woes. There is sure to be a union and a democrat mayor involved.
As for the democrats being a "melting pot and diverse party" What a JOKE!! Last time I looked around D.C. I surely didn't see a melting pot. What happened to all the diversity xray??? Ooooh yea, it was pushed out to P.G. and other surrounding counties by the so called "diverse, melting pot, working man, union supporting, and lets not forget tolerant" white liberal democrats, who have taken over the "Chocolate City" in droves!!
Maybe you can blame Bush for that also. :eek:

Hook H, first I dont know why I go back and forth with someone who knows nothing about his city. History lesson the city is still majority black for one. Two this is probably one of the most diverse cities in the country. Maybe you wear blinders when you go on runs, if your on a fire apparatus. Ive worked in every part of this city and I see diversity all around. Third because I live here and frequent the city very often, I get to see who truly lives here not just federal workers commuting. So you can ramble on about what you think you know because your only here twice a week, leave that to the people who know and have the pulse of the city. peroid

[xray]

Loo, It's not just about my job why I or other people follow a particular party. You go with the team that pass policies that affect all aspects of your life (not just DCFD). Back in the 80's when Ronald Reagan was in office he gave the military some healthy and on going raises. Nice but, the rest of his policies were not worthy of my vote. You see supporting a particular party goes beyond more than just what a politician can do for your job. I look at all aspects of what they stand for.

[xray]

Outof the loop, I see you jotted down some points. But let me say this,talk to some of the old timers of this city and they will have great things to say about Eleanor Holmes-Norton.She has long been, and yes even(Marion Barrry) a champion of the RESIDENTS of washington. Now I realize your only concern is with what they can do for you as a member of the department no problem.But i still have family who live with in the city limits, so i'm looking out of the box when it come to what a politician can deliver. I cant let you bash the democrats of this city because they may or may not have always sided with the union.For me it's about what they can do for the entire city,not just for negotiating over a contract. Dont get me wrong I want pay raises, benefits not cut, and so forth like the nexts member. Just had to put in my 2cent on the subject inreference to the demos. of Washington. They have been good to the citizens over the past 3 to 4 decades.

[oldhead]

Alright, here's my take, not that anyone gives a shit. Anyone who is a union member and says they will vote Republican or Tea-bagger is an idiot. And yes, I do mean disrespect to the tea-baggers by calling them that. The Republicans, goaded by the tea-baggers, have done a MASTERFUL job of convincing the public that the fault of our nation's economic woes lie squarely at the feet of unions. It's un-fucking-believable. Our economic mess was caused by a handful of incredibly greedy wall street fucks with the help of politicians who are in wall street's pocket. The heads of the Treasury, SEC, FDIC, Fannie-Mae, Freddie-Mac, all of whom are supposed to oversee bankers, mortgage brokers and wall street knew perfectly well that our banking and monetary system would implode. When it did what happened? Pretty much nothing. All of the above assholes are political appointees who still have their jobs. Two dudes from wall street are in jail, Bernie Abramov, and some dude with an Indian name who is very brown. That's it. Now the politicians are gonna cover their ass because putting only two guys in the slammer who helped cause this mess is unacceptable to the public and they know the public can figure out that the politicians had everything to do with this mess, so who to blame? Why of course! The people who pay the most taxes, the middle class, but you can't blame the entire middle class, just go for a portion of it, union members, especially public sector union members. We have what are supposed to be binding contracts, but now, because of the mess created by complacent politicians, a-holes who all gave a wink and a nod and looked the other way, the economy is in the crapper, and municipalities are having trouble or simply can't honor commitments they made. Often times, especially concerning pensions, municipalities have not made scheduled and required payments to keep those pensions solvent, they just simply deferred because times were fat, and spent the money on other things. So now unions are an easy and convenient target and it takes the heat off politicians who fucked it all up anyway. Now I'm not stupid enough to believe unions are completely blameless, look at all the unions that pay NOTHING toward their pensions or healthcare, how freakin' sweet is THAT?! On the flip side, I haven't heard of any unions coming to the bargaining table and holding guns to their respective municipalities' heads and yelling, " YO muthafuckas!! This is what you're gonna give us or we cap your asses!" What shocks me is that many people think that my wife, a school teacher, and I have lavish salaries and will get fat pensions. Christ, she has a fucking Masters degree and clears LESS than $60,000 a year!?! As for me, I'm doing alright, but I definitely ain't rich, and for every asshole who has said I work too few hours for what I get paid, I haven't found a SINGLE ONE who has been willing to crawl down that super heated black hallway with me, open up that roof that's about to collapse under me, inhale the shit I've inhaled, wade into shootings and stabbings without police assistance, dodge idiot drivers while working in the street, get exposed to God knows what kind of diseases are out on the street, get spit at, coughed on, puked, shit, pissed, and bled on, get stuck with contaminated needles, or have the potential to get disabled simply doing what we do and God knows what else. In other words, when you do what I do, then you can earn my shift, my salary , and my pension you COCKSUCKERS. :mad: I digress. By putting the blame squarely on working men and women, the politicians, ALL OF 'EM, have slapped us in the face. HH, you've said we sound like a bunch of whining liberals, pick a team and go with it. Well, ALL the teams SUCK and anyone who buys the dogma, hook, line, and sinker of ANY of the political parties is an idiot. I'll say it again. The Democrats think government can solve everything, the Republicans want to privatize everything and take away everything poor people use, and the tea baggers don't want any government at all. The tea baggers like to wrap themselves in the Constitution and the Federalist Papers all calling for limited government, but the plain fact is, if you want to live in a civil society, one where law and order are respected, the poor and disabled are assisted, and have a military that has the ability to kick ass, you NEED government, and guess what else, it's gonna HAVE to be big. Surprise! You want an exercise in limited government? Go to that shit hole Somalia, it's not even a country anymore, it's gangster fucking land. I understand Mogadishu is lovely at this time of year. :eek: If you are a union member and you vote Republican on the next go around, yer nuts. And for the record, I have been a registered Republican my entire old ass voting life, but I have NEVER toed the party line, I have always voted for the person I thought would do the best job, and yes, that has included Democrats and Independents. So I guess that makes me a pussy fence sitter trying to play both sides. Whatever, so be it. I just have trouble buying a dogma completely whether it's Republican, Democrat, or tea bag. I happen to be Catholic, but I have trouble buying the entire dogma, and when I meet my maker it's gonna cause problems but I'll do what I always do when I get my marching orders. I'll give a snappy salute and merrily eat my shit sandwich. As for the next go around of elections, my little bit of strategery involves not voting for ANYONE who has already been in office. I wanna see what a new crop of dipsticks can/can't do :mad:

[oldhead]

Obviously, that was worth saying twice.

[Confused]

Loo, It's not just about my job why I or other people follow a particular party. You go with the team that pass policies that affect all aspects of your life (not just DCFD). Back in the 80's when Ronald Reagan was in office he gave the military some healthy and on going raises. Nice but, the rest of his policies were not worthy of my vote. You see supporting a particular party goes beyond more than just what a politician can do for your job. I look at all aspects of what they stand for.

Says the guy who saw a YouTube clip of some random tea party rally and now assumes that that means the entire tea party are racist rednecks from Alabama.

[regs1]

oldhead

great post - I fixed the double posting

[Outofdaloop]

oldhead

great post - I fixed the double posting

Could you also fix it with paragraphs, lol :D

[Confused]

I'm not tea partyer by any means but to make statements of opinion that are treated like fact because you saw a clip on youtube or a 3 minute news story on MSNBC is ridiculous, it took me literally 5 seconds to find the basic values of the tea party by an internet search. I'm reading them, again and again and again, where is all the raving of racism and/or anarchy in these things?

It endorses reduced government spending:

Stop spending money on stupid shit, get out of all these wars, we killed Bin Laden, bring our troops home, no more bailouts for these huge corporations, etc etc.

Opposition to taxation in varying degrees:

The way I understand this is in particular the federal income tax. The federal income tax is not found in the constitution, and is therefor viewed as unconstitutional. Furthermore, correct me if I'm wrong, but the federal income tax is less than 1% of the US Govt's annual income.

Reduction of the national debt and federal budget deficit:

See: "Stop spending money on stupid shit."

Adherence to an originalist interpretation of the United States Constitution:

Follow the rules by which this government was founded upon.


Oh ok NOW I get where all the racist anarchy is coming from. :rolleyes:





Stop voting for who your parents voted for.
Stop refusing to look at the issues and voting on who is a pussy and who is not.
Stop refusing to analyze each candidate and writing one off because they're not in your template (party).

Vote for the one who captures what you most believe in, whether that's democrat, republican, or purple people eater party.

[oldhead]

Federal income tax is less than 1% of the federal government's income? Ain't no way that's right. Where the hell is the rest of the money coming from? I want to know why it's now so fucking vogue to not tax anymore, especially the rich. Taxes pay for our infrastructure, our basic services, police fire, EMS, education, our mighty ass military, our stinkin' salaries! Tax the rich?! Damn straight! EVERYONE should help carry the load according to what they make. EVERYONE. Since when is it OK for people who make jillions of dollars a year and zillion dollar corporations to pay less than a family eeking by on $40,000 a year?! wtf. Our roads, bridges, electrical grid, gas, water, and sewer lines are a patchwork quilt barely able to handle the daily loads and NO ONE wants to help pay. We are on the path to being a sophisticated third world country like India or Russia. Do we waste money? Fuckin' A right. Get rid of the waste, get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, we kicked ass and killed who needed to be killed, we're done. That part of the world will NEVER be right, just keep hammering 'em with the drones, that shit is working. Those terrorist fucks are scurrying around like fucking rats trying to escape a buckshot blast. Getting out of those two hell holes will save 2 BILLION dollars A DAY. When they or anyone else starts misbehaving we just go back and kick ass AGAIN. No one wants to be like us and it's time we got over that, fuck 'em.
There. Here's an effen paragraph. By not placing paragraphs one must sit and actually READ my drivel. I'm thinking of branching out to run-on sentences with no spacing.

[footsoldier]

Dear Mr. Oldhead,

I don't know that I could agree with your epic novel sized post any more. With the exception of being catholic ( I'm atheist ), I feel as if I made that post, even the teacher wife with a masters degree who doesnt make shit part.

[Confused]

Yeah I wasn't sure about the 1%, hence the correct me if I'm wrong, that number seems to stick out in my head. I do know that the Government doesn't need the income tax to operate though.

Edit: Further searching finds approx 45% of our budget from personal income tax, though some of the literature says that eliminating it and replacing it with nothing still warrants us the means to operate our government of the late 1990s, before we started 10 years of war, looking further into this.

Further on the taxation of the rich, it's up to people who read between the lines to see all the loopholes, backdoor dealings, and offshore accounting options that people with that kind of financial backing have. The more money you have to lobby congress with, the more bullshit laws you can have passed that protect your bottom line, it's really ridiculous that our country basically revolves around which lobbyist is putting the most money in which officials pocket. Look no further than Mitt Romney recently stating that "Corporations are People." This guy will probably get the Republican nod, and we want him running our country? Shit is laughable.

We're staying in lands not our own to protect our own financial future more than anything else, at this point 18 year old kids going to Afghanistan and Iraq were 8 years old when this whole thing started, isn't that completely crazy when you think about it? Pay attention and watch us stay where the oil is, where the minerals for electronics are, where other means of income for our government are, all under the guise of keeping our country safe from terrorism.

[oldhead]

Does anyone remember what started this thread?

[regs1]

Thread starter?

The current fire chief wanting being the best chief ever- then to 3 platoons, then to unions, then to WTF else?:D

oh yes oldhead lack of paragraphs in his posts:p

[xray]

Says the guy who saw a YouTube clip of some random tea party rally and now assumes that that means the entire tea party are racist rednecks from Alabama.

Nah confused Ive done my home work, what you say you stand for is one thing.But your actions speak loudly sir!
These were the same people who claimed hes not my president after their guy lost. And what about all the rhetoric about him (pres. Obama) not being an American. Are you serious? You dont think he was backround checked before being vested.
So to even bring up the issue about his citizenship was idiotic at the least. In all fairness when Bush was elected there were people who were pissed. But that was because of the controversity over the count in Florida. The Obama and Mcain race wasn't even a close race, he was beaten fair and square.Than all of a sudden they(tea party came out the wood work). You know who the tea party is? Well I'll tell you and be frank about it. They are the radical faction of the republican party who refused to acknowledge that there president is black period! All this talk about constitution is bullsh@t its a smoke screen for what they really want to say and feel. Like I said in earlier post when the repubs were spending freely and they did,where were the tea party? I didn't hear about them until Obama got in office. I know some gonna say they were here. But why their so prominent now it's no coincidence at all. If youre guy loses the election you role with it hope he or she wins next time. You dont cry because you didnt get what you wanted. Oh and by the way, What the hell does we want our country back mean. They werent saying that when Bush was spending billions, and he was a big spender look it up.

[xray]

Federal income tax is less than 1% of the federal government's income? Ain't no way that's right. Where the hell is the rest of the money coming from? I want to know why it's now so fucking vogue to not tax anymore, especially the rich. Taxes pay for our infrastructure, our basic services, police fire, EMS, education, our mighty ass military, our stinkin' salaries! Tax the rich?! Damn straight! EVERYONE should help carry the load according to what they make. EVERYONE. Since when is it OK for people who make jillions of dollars a year and zillion dollar corporations to pay less than a family eeking by on $40,000 a year?! wtf. Our roads, bridges, electrical grid, gas, water, and sewer lines are a patchwork quilt barely able to handle the daily loads and NO ONE wants to help pay. We are on the path to being a sophisticated third world country like India or Russia. Do we waste money? Fuckin' A right. Get rid of the waste, get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, we kicked ass and killed who needed to be killed, we're done. That part of the world will NEVER be right, just keep hammering 'em with the drones, that shit is working. Those terrorist fucks are scurrying around like fucking rats trying to escape a buckshot blast. Getting out of those two hell holes will save 2 BILLION dollars A DAY. When they or anyone else starts misbehaving we just go back and kick ass AGAIN. No one wants to be like us and it's time we got over that, fuck 'em.
There. Here's an effen paragraph. By not placing paragraphs one must sit and actually READ my drivel. I'm thinking of branching out to run-on sentences with no spacing.

Couldn't agree more olds, By the way did you have to use O2 for the post you made at 11:09, you were a lil long winded

[oldhead]

I'm on my goddamn ventillator right effen now.

[Brooks]

That may be a 2nd beer I'll buy you.

[Loo for life]

Loo, It's not just about my job why I or other people follow a particular party. You go with the team that pass policies that affect all aspects of your life (not just DCFD). Back in the 80's when Ronald Reagan was in office he gave the military some healthy and on going raises. Nice but, the rest of his policies were not worthy of my vote. You see supporting a particular party goes beyond more than just what a politician can do for your job. I look at all aspects of what they stand for.

I voted for Carter against Reagan back in the day, worst thing I ever did he was bar none the worst President in memory! I ended up a Reagan Democrat he attempted to bring fiscal sanity tax cuts, the begining to the end to the cold war and most of all he made it a PROUD time to be an AMERICAN again.... I did not vote for Bush 41 in the second election and his son in the 2nd term certainly did not earn my respect... Niether did Clinton nor certainly Obama (Jesse Owens knew America nor it's flag never bowed to another Nation yet this President has done so not once but twice) ! So in the end Reagan was the best of the bunch I ever voted for or against!! You cannot vote for a party it has to be an individual you glossed over the fucking that was being brought down on us by Democrats of DC over the years.

I too vote for more than the FD concerns but my family, well being and my wallet come first not federal sponsored social programs, the arts, NPR Department of Education etc...!!

Oldhead that means I am more then willing to pay for what is in the Constitution "Defense and Limited Government!!!!

Why is it that the Deomcrats feel it is ok to take from someone who earns the money and redistribute it to others... I am an everyone pays type of guy

How much is rich enough if my wife and I earn 251K send a kid or two to college am I rich the FEDS under the current President have decided that I am....

One more question.... Which party passed the Civil rights act? Just curious I believe it was all of the Southern Democrats whom fought it tooth and nail....So what makes the democrat party so wonderful?

[homeatlast]

Nah confused Ive done my home work, what you say you stand for is one thing.But your actions speak loudly sir!
These were the same people who claimed hes not my president after their guy lost. And what about all the rhetoric about him (pres. Obama) not being an American. Are you serious? You dont think he was backround checked before being vested.
So to even bring up the issue about his citizenship was idiotic at the least. In all fairness when Bush was elected there were people who were pissed. But that was because of the controversity over the count in Florida. The Obama and Mcain race wasn't even a close race, he was beaten fair and square.Than all of a sudden they(tea party came out the wood work). You know who the tea party is? Well I'll tell you and be frank about it. They are the radical faction of the republican party who refused to acknowledge that there president is black period! All this talk about constitution is bullsh@t its a smoke screen for what they really want to say and feel. Like I said in earlier post when the repubs were spending freely and they did,where were the tea party? I didn't hear about them until Obama got in office. I know some gonna say they were here. But why their so prominent now it's no coincidence at all. If youre guy loses the election you role with it hope he or she wins next time. You dont cry because you didnt get what you wanted. Oh and by the way, What the hell does we want our country back mean. They werent saying that when Bush was spending billions, and he was a big spender look it up.

That's called an opinion there slim, and I recognize it. There is no doubt that, he is a citizen, and some loud mouths took things way too far. There are no doubt some people who do not want to recognize that we DO have a black president. And there is certainly no doubt that there are certain conservatives/republicans who are trying to make this their new party. I don't like it, either, I like the Constitution.

With that being said, read a little bit more, please. And I promise this is not meant as a personal attack. You see, this is what is called a 'stereotype'. There are many of these, and usually they make the stereotype user look silly at best. The 'new party' may be in the midst of getting hijacked by conservatives who want a free ride, or liberals who feel the same way. But you don't hear about the liberals who are jumping on, do you? Not really, those names you have to look for. Give it a try. They are there. The original idea was not a 'political party' at all. It was a movement, remember, and before that, an idea as a way to get a new governments attention, ala 'Boston Tea Party'. The getting back the country, well, that also included frustration at plenty of Bush policies, spending practices, PATRIOT ACTS, the list goes on. Ever heard of Habeas Corpus, or the guy who suspended it? There was never a doctrine to take back the country from the current sitting president and his staff. We are just as frustrated with the right as the left. You really don't have to look very far to see this.

"You see supporting a particular party goes beyond more than just what a politician can do for your job. I look at all aspects of what they stand for."

You may want to rethink this, or your post. I agree, it is 100% true. It's just not echoed in the rest of your sentiments, if I read them correctly. I am sure there are plenty of liberal, conservation, federalist, libertarian, socialist, etc. etc. policies out there that you agree with and disagree with. If you have found the perfect party or idealism, good for you. I really don't think any of us Americans have. And trying to get the governments attention over it, well, no shit someone is going to criminalize them, and someone is going to victimize them. After all, the flag in my skin was the flag of these United States and the First Continental Marines before it was considered an extremist/militia/separatist mark.

I repeat, this is not personal. I respect your opinion and just feel like you may have wanted to understand a little more. I think that through discussion and conversation we can learn more about each other, and find growth there. The stereotypes just dont work though, particularly when they are placed under racist premises. You should know that as much as the next guy. Or you can stick to your opinion, and continue to accuse me of racism because you don't respect mine.

Scott MacLeod

[xray]

And with that Homeatlast the political debate is finished

[Greenshield]

So much opinion and so little fact. Where do I begin? Look up the Oath Keepers, a Tea Party-esk association of Police, Fire, and Military. Come to a Tea Party event/meeting. If, at that time, you still believe the regurgitated bumper sticker MSNBC statements about the Tea Party and people whom are part and parcel to it. So be it. Chose the political class (including the big shot fat cats at the head of the AFL-CIO and Teamsters) over the people whom actually work.

[DCFD-Gumby]

I voted for Carter against Reagan back in the day, worst thing I ever did he was bar none the worst President in memory! I ended up a Reagan Democrat he attempted to bring fiscal sanity tax cuts, the beginning to the end to the cold war and most of all he made it a PROUD time to be an AMERICAN again....

I wish people stop saying Reagan cut taxes without bringing up the fact that he later raised them. Here is some homework. Google the spending records of the past Presidents in your lifetime. You will find that Conservative Republican Presidents are a myth. Since I all ready know the answer (Democrats actually spent less) I will let you find the websites on your own. I do not want to taint your knowledge. Bill Clinton was the best President fiscally this country has seen in our lifetimes. Facts seem to have a way of getting salt in your tea party cups.

[DCFD-Gumby]

Go Skins!!!!!

[oldhead]

The march to the superbowl started last week!! Woohoo!

[Brooks]

The Tea Party movement began around Ron Paul, a politician for whom I have some respect. At some point, it got co-opted by the Koch brothers (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/Peter-Fenn/2011/02/02/tea-party-funding-koch-brothers-emerge-from-anonymity) and others, who have also bankrolled the attack (http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/02/18/koch-brothers-behind-wisconsin-effort-to-kill-public-unions/) on Wisconsin unions. This isn't an effort to get them to pay more for their pension - it is a full fledged attack on their right to bargain, their most basic right as an employee's union.

Paul Ryan, a tea party darling (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/18/321875/paul-ryan-calls-for-increasing-taxes-on-middle-class-but-dismisses-millionaires-tax-as-class-warfare/), endorses raising taxes (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/09/17/321786/house-reject-payroll-tax/) on those making under $109,000, but calls Obama's plan to raise taxes on millionaire's "class warfare (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/18/321875/paul-ryan-calls-for-increasing-taxes-on-middle-class-but-dismisses-millionaires-tax-as-class-warfare/)". This man is no friend of the working man.

Michelle Bachman, another Tea Party candidate (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/michele-bachmann-of-and-for-the-tea-party/2011/06/27/AG7zCanH_blog.html), believes that God (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-bachmann-hurricane-god-20110829,0,6553701.story) sent the earthquake and hurricane to send a message to Washington. She believes that the HPV vaccine causes autism (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/16/michele-bachmann-hpv-vaccine_n_966003.html). She is, in a word, dumber than paint. More relevant to this discussion, though, is the fact that while she supported President Reagan intervening against the Air Traffic Controllers when he broke that union, she lambasted (http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/02/bachmann_vs_obama_on_wisconsin_unions.php) President Obama for intervening on behalf of the Wisconsin unions.

Most of the popular support for the Tea Party type candidates seems to stem from the idea that we are taxed to much; after all, the original tea party was a tax revolt (though, they'd probably be classified as terrorists today!). The theory seems to be that working class people should vote for reduced government because of some combination of moral outrage and the idea that we'd all be richer if we just paid less taxes. It shouldn't be hard to convince firefighters that at least some taxes are necessary to pay for public goods (like fire protection). The second theory takes a bit more. How about this (http://dollarsandsense.org/archives/2011/0611reuss.html): "If we look at the historical evidence more broadly, there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that high marginal tax rates mean slow economic growth, or that low marginal tax rates mean fast growth." The GOP & Tea Party's stock in trade seems to be in ignoring evidence, so I don't expect to shake the faithful, just make those on the fence aware of which side of the fence the bull has been shitting on.

[homeatlast]

Alright, you got me. I've been had by theWatchdesk. It took a long time, but I got sucked in. Sorry mom, I forgot the line about sticks and stones.

It appears that there is a large enough population in the United States, and the world for that matter, that you can find an example and defense for any argument you wish to make. This is really great, because now WE ALL know best, we all know the truth, and we can prove it. Doesn't matter if we all differ, so long as we are all right. We really don't even have to attempt to solve anything, just prove that our opinion is right.

For what it's worth, I know that I was as right and wrong as the next guy, just as guilty of spreading my opinions. Does anyone else see what this is doing to us? Thanks for the entertainment, all I was trying to do was see if the list was out!

[Greenshield]

I feel like some indigenous person whom is being opined about, studied, and labeled by some scholars at a University thousands of miles away based on newsreel footage they saw. Whilst labeling is convenient and necessary for any Alinsky-esk actions to occur they are shallow, repugnant, and off the mark. Anyone whom states here that any Tea Party movement is all about "X" or all about "Y", is run by "he"or "she" knows no more of the movement than the keyboard by which they ravage said movement. The argument is focused on maximum Liberty and minimal persuasion. TO break everything down to this tax rate or that tax rate on this person or that person ignores the issue at heart. Again, the argument over whom has the power concedes that said power over you even exists.

Look at what your community spends on what. Then equate that to the fact that those whom pay for said services or have paid for them in the past must now pay for voluntary non contributors to use same said service. IS this giving or thievery? Is it not truly giving only when one takes time, labor, and money etc form themselves, without coercion or force of law and gives said goods to those in need? A system is now in place where one feels that they can be caring and giving by voting every couple of years or less. Somehow taking a small portion of one day and voting for a person you probably have never met whom promises to take from one person and give it to another (none of the parties do you even know) is compassion. WTF!? Removing the responsibility and pain of giving has made many of us numb to what giving really is. Call a number on a television and you have saved a child, vote for "X" and you have fed the poor, and on. These are the kinds of things that come up in discussions I have at meetings I attend. Anyone see this as bad, terroristic, or evil?

[Brooks]

I'm not making any value judgements when I say that the candidates endorsed by the Tea Party movement want to decrease government spending, privatize government functions, reduce public employee benefits, reduce or eliminate public employee pensions, and reduce or eliminate public employee's right to bargain collectively.

All of those things hurt me. All of those things hurt all of the people I work with.

They are not the only things I vote on, however, they are very important to me.

[Brooks]

Also, as an aside, we used to not have a standing army. Maintaining a standing army (and navy, and airforce, USMC, and USCG) is far more expensive than maintaining a social safety net. If we're talking about fiscal responsibility we can't talk about curtailing social spending without also talking about curtailing military & security spending.

Further, 'welfare' wasn't always voluntary. In feudal times, everyone must join the church and tithe, the church provided 'welfare' for the sick and the poor. In the United States, revolutionaries like Thomas Paine advocated for a universal income grant. In colonial & revolutionary times, there was always 'free' land to work on the frontier, at least for free whites. There was always a fairly viable alternative for able-bodied poor. Not so much now: all the land is owned and many of the processes are patented, or heavily regulated by regulators owned by the dominant industries.

[DCFDRescue2]

Also, as an aside, we used to not have a standing army. Maintaining a standing army (and navy, and airforce, USMC, and USCG) is far more expensive than maintaining a social safety net. If we're talking about fiscal responsibility we can't talk about curtailing social spending without also talking about curtailing military & security spending.

If you don't have a standing Army, it won't be long before you don't have a free society to have a safety net for.

[Brooks]

R2 - Iceland is not free (0.1% of GDP is spent on defense)? How about Costa Rica? Ireland (0.6%)? or, how about Switzerland(0.8%), or even Canada (1.2%)? (US is at 4.7% of GDP, not counting veteran's benefits, DoEnergy maintenance of nuclear stockpiles, interest on wartime debt, etc.)

Tea Partiers can't cry about the constitutionality of welfare spending without also examining defense spending.

[DCFDRescue2]

R2 - Iceland is not free (0.1% of GDP is spent on defense)? How about Costa Rica? Ireland (0.6%)? or, how about Switzerland(0.8%), or even Canada (1.2%)? (US is at 4.7% of GDP, not counting veteran's benefits, DoEnergy maintenance of nuclear stockpiles, interest on wartime debt, etc.)

Tea Partiers can't cry about the constitutionality of welfare spending without also examining defense spending.

I was thinking of the whole "domestic tranquility" and "common defense" wording in the Constitution.

[Loo for life]

I wish people stop saying Reagan cut taxes without bringing up the fact that he later raised them. Here is some homework. Google the spending records of the past Presidents in your lifetime. You will find that Conservative Republican Presidents are a myth. Since I all ready know the answer (Democrats actually spent less) I will let you find the websites on your own. I do not want to taint your knowledge. Bill Clinton was the best President fiscally this country has seen in our lifetimes. Facts seem to have a way of getting salt in your tea party cups.

Actually you are wrong in the real terms the President doesn't raise or lower anything Congress does and the Democratically controled Congress gave Reagan his lower taxes and raised them later so let us get this straight!! ;)

Oh yeah and Clinton had a Republican controled Congress thus lower taxes and welfare reform.... Go on Liberal dog LOL

[Loo for life]

Brooks,
Iceland, Ireland Costa Rica (who do u think protects them) Most of the world looks to us to protect them.... This beacon of freedom protects half of the other countries in the world! None of those Countries you mentioned won WWI and WWII and still playing in Korea on and on and on... None of those Countries have anywhere near the freedon we have and guess what it does cost... Can we cut some that I am sure of, but please Apples and Oranges my friend!

[HOOKMAN]

This thread is sounding more and more like a Sunday morning episode of Meet the Press or. Inside Washington....

[ENGTKRS]

Hookman is it ture, We understand that you are getting your job back WELL it it true YES OR NO

[HOOKMAN]

Is "WE" a select group of people in the department that's privy to top secret information or is it a generalized term to mean the majority of thewatchdesk family:D.....Anyways.....The only information I can release at this time, is that I've been promoted to Night shift supervisor at Dixon Ticonderoga, where I oversee the instalation of lead in all #2 pencils....When further information is known, I will hold a press conference....I must go now and take my pet midget to the park for play time....

[DCFD-Gumby]

Actually you are wrong in the real terms the President doesn't raise or lower anything Congress does and the Democratically controled Congress gave Reagan his lower taxes and raised them later so let us get this straight!! ;)

Oh yeah and Clinton had a Republican controled Congress thus lower taxes and welfare reform.... Go on Liberal dog LOL

WOOHOO someone bit the bait!!!!

Fact: President Bush under a complete Republican Congress signed {since he could have vetoed} tax cuts that where unfunded. Sucked us into two wars we can not afford. The Taliban have publicly stated that they were beaten until we turned our focus on Iraq. The main cause for the deficit IS the unfunded Bush tax cuts. The only thing that has trickled down to me was my dog pissing on my leg. Thankfully he could not tell me it was raining. Millionaires pay 15% tax on their income because it is "passive" aka dividends while people like me and you pay up to 35% because we get a paycheck. All the Democrats want is the same rates for everyone like the constitution may or may not say since I am taking the Bachmann-Palin route and not bothering to read it. I will just make it up.

In closing I say close all of our military bases in other countries, bring our soldiers home, and to quote Ron Paul....Mind our own dam business!!!!

FYI: The next time Mitt Romney blames Obama for something he should at the very least not hold up a fact sheet showing problems from the 2008-2009 fiscal year.

This post has not been proofed for accuracy but is ready to be sent out as the gospel truth.

Go Skins - Cowboys Suck!!!

[Styles]

I thought this forum was about our Fire Chief...not everyone's political thoughts and beliefs. Political beliefs are like A**holes everyone's got one...be it hairy and dirty or bleached clean.

[HookHomo]

I can't believe the liberal talking points some of you scumbags regurgitate on here. I guess you think Obama is doing a good job and all his misfortunes are Bush s fault?. It can't be that he has increased the deficit by 4 TRILLION with a "T" dollars, or that unemployment is at 9%( 16% for black Americans) or that his liberal agenda and policies are a disaster.
"We should cut our defense", "we should tax the rich". It is people like you who are bringing this country down. Like Loo for life said, we are the worlds 911!!, and last time I checked, poor people or middle class for that matter were not offering jobs. If you are a private company and employ hundreds or thousands of Americans, Damn right you should pay less tax!! If you are a small business owner and employ 3 people, Damn right you should pay less tax!!
You people think you are entitled to what ever the government has to offer. In reality, the only thing you are entitled to is,"LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS". Anything else is a handout!

[oldhead]

So why do the rich and multi-billion dollar corporations merrily take their government subsidized handouts? What's bringing this country down is the fact that NO ONE wants to pay for anything. PERIOD. Why should ANYONE get a tax cut? What about EVERYONE paying a fair share? And don't ask me what a fair share is. When a Billionaire like Warren Buffet pays less in taxes than I do and ADMITS he does AND says there's something wrong with that, uh yeah, there's something wrong with that. And don't think for one stinkin' minute that I believe the rich will ever pay their fair share, it's the golden rule thing. I assume HH that you're a union member, if that's true please turn your card in, you're not part of the working class, you sound like you're independently wealthy, and that's great if you are, more power to you. But I tell you what, if I gotta pay 30-35%, then so should you :mad:

[xray]

Hook H, was the country doing fine financially the last 18 mos. of the bush era. It wasn't all about the housing industry, it was wall street, deregulation to name a few. Do you remember " ENRON" ?. Deregulation doesn't work because it allows companies to conduct business in there own best interest, without due regard for the consumer. Yes the company may flourish but at the consumer's expense.These greedy corporations would be out of control if the fed's didnt intervene and make them due right by the populus. So you honestly believe that if the feds just let companies conduct business, without regulating commerce they(corporations) would do right. I believe some businesses are purposely not hiring to intentionally make the situation worse for the president. They want a person there who's gonna allow them to operate with impunity. Yeah I think a person should have a right to make an honest buck with profit. But whats in place to protect "US'' when the greedy bastards want to price gouge and charge rediculously.Government is here to look out for and protect those whom otherwise cant fend for themselves.There are not enough jobs in America for every able body adult to have work. So what do we do with the people who cant find work? let them suffer?.If your answer is yes to this than you don't mind if that individual execise his right to rob you.Not that I wish that upon you, but it's a reality of not helping and having policies in place to assist the needy. If you are against the unions and support the repub's than your not for the working man period.

[DCFD-Gumby]

I can't believe the liberal talking points some of you scumbags regurgitate on here. I guess you think Obama is doing a good job and all his misfortunes are Bush s fault?. It can't be that he has increased the deficit by 4 TRILLION with a "T" dollars, or that unemployment is at 9%( 16% for black Americans) or that his liberal agenda and policies are a disaster.
"We should cut our defense", "we should tax the rich". It is people like you who are bringing this country down. Like Loo for life said, we are the worlds 911!!, and last time I checked, poor people or middle class for that matter were not offering jobs. If you are a private company and employ hundreds or thousands of Americans, Damn right you should pay less tax!! If you are a small business owner and employ 3 people, Damn right you should pay less tax!!
You people think you are entitled to what ever the government has to offer. In reality, the only thing you are entitled to is,"LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS". Anything else is a handout!

So if we follow your lead GE should give back the 3.2 Billion Tax refund handout since they did not pay any taxes. Companies should get tax breaks to hire people. However, if you are millionaire you should pay the SAME PERSONAL TAX RATE as the soldier fighting in Iraq or the fire fighter risking their life. If I have to pay 35% than so do you and everyone else in this country. That is the issue. You seem to have fallen for the Republican bullshit which is "If we call ourselves Job Creators no one will realize we are rich". For the record, the employment rate was 3.9% when the George W Bush & the Republicans took all three branches of the government in 2008. When Obama won it was up to 7.8%. Now if he had a magic wand he could have stopped the slide right away but some of us live in reality. The rate is now going back down from it's high of 10.1%. Facts are wonderful if you know how to manipulate them. Here is a cold hard fact that no one can dispute. Other than Obama because he is still in office and was not added, no Democratic President EVER had unemployment increase while in office. But, every Republican President had the rate go up. The only exception was Reagan whose rate stayed the same. So who is better for jobs again?

[Hydro Engineer]

I believe some businesses are purposely not hiring to intentionally make the situation worse for the president. They want a person there who's gonna allow them to operate with impunity. Yeah I think a person should have a right to make an honest buck with profit.

Yeah, So that must be why Our Chief has not started any hiring yet. There Should be another entrance EXAM this year....:confused: No sign of it being posted

[HookHomo]

There you all go again regurgitating liberal talking points!!!! So I guess it's OK for someone who pays NO income tax to get a tax return? or it's OK to stay on welfare for 20+ years when you are perfectly capable of working?
Gumby, GE didn't pay taxes because they are in bed with the Obama administration and gave him a shit ton of money for his campaign. Yes millionaires should pay the same as anyone else, on there individual income. Companies however should get tax breaks for hiring more tax payers! Simple!
You all have gotten sucked into the liberal class warfare ,"It's not fare he makes more than me" "It's not fare, It's not fare." You bunch of whiny ass cry babies! Thank god for the rich! Millions of jobs depend on them.:D

[regs1]

Since we talking about the tax, has anyone even taken the time to try to read it?

To put it mildly, the IRS people who supposed to know the code have problem reading it, let alone understanding it.
The tax code is broken period, time to rewrite it, make it simple.

Everyone has to pay some type of tax, keeping the kiss theory alive, deductions for all state and local taxes, deductions for kids, and yes even a mortgage, if needed another deduction, medical cost above 10% of gross. From this point no more deductions. Let’s put a straight line tax of 10% on income up to $500,000 single, $1,000.000 married.
Tax on all income weather its $200 year or $1,000,000. Next level, above $500,000 to $2,000,000 single 15% married same above $1,000,000 to $4,000,000 15%. Above that tax rate 20%. [ at this level you lose all deductions] You can break it down almost like the tax code in Virginia,

Corporate code almost the same, tax on the net profits, deduction will go for state and local taxes, payroll expenses, and the basic costs of doing business. No deductions for investments, no depreciation rate for equipment, just the cost of buying replacements for that year. Put this tax rate at a flat 20%.

I know this is a time bomb for people to play with, but this is only a start suggestion, have fun changing it to fit your needs

[oldhead]

And HH you're regurgitating the whiny ass republican talking points, you're no different than the rest of us. You can damn well bet that even if Obama hadn't won, GE and the rest of' 'em would be in bed with whomever had. It's all about greasing the right pockets so you can get the biggest bang for your buck. As for the rich, everyone should be allowed to make as much money as they please but they/we should all pitch in for the greater good (whiny-ass liberal talking point). As regs said, our tax code is beyond broken, and so is our political system. HH, I'm serious about your union card, I'll be happy to confiscate it from you at the next general membership meeting. BEFORE you get inside.

[xray]

[QUOTE=Hydro Engineer;606668]Yeah, So that must be why Our Chief has not started any hiring yet. There Should be another entrance EXAM this year....:confused: No sign of it being posted[/QUOTE

Well if I recall and I am quite sure im correct, an entrance exam wasnt given the last cycle they skipped over it.

[xray]

Hey olds, I dont think "HH" really believe that bull he's typing. I think he likes to put out controversal statements to see what kind of reaction hell get. And if I'm wrong than someone needs to take the remote from him when he wants to watch " Fixed News" (i.e. glen beck, sean hannity ect...)

[Hydro Engineer]

They should give an Entrance Exam every 2-3years. This past August was 3 years

[Loo for life]

Why do we have to pay for tax cuts.... when did that occur? When did a cut in spending growth become an actual cut in a program.

I will challange your assertions all day long gumby or is it liberal pokey...

Let's stop all grants,stop all money sent to other countries, stop all aid to the poor and let it go back to family, friends and churchs it is what worked when did the government become the end all be all... let's stop the Fed version of the Dept. of Education what do they actually do lets scale back most government departments even some of the military but I for one will tell you our common defense is in the US Constitution but most of this other shit is not... You can follow your teleprompter reading President all day long for all I care but he is no smarter than W was and almost certainly more of an idiot!


So I guess 15% of a Million is less than 30% of 50K......

Do the math you do not pay less than Buffet he has to pay taxes you are not seeing for number 1... He is a smart business man whom only pays himself outright a certain amount the the rest is taken in dividends et al.....

I agree we should go either to a consumption tax or
we should go to a flat tax with the first 20 K not taxed for all then we would all pay our fair share....

30k a yr worker does 15% of 10k
100k a yr worker does 15% of 80k
1 mil. a yr income does 15% of 980K Argue the unfairness in that if the feds cannot live off of the money generated then so fucking be it no need for a an extremely large IRS department... the progressive tax hurts the high earners and the JOB PROVIDERS. Since when did being a politician beome a full time job and why do they get a retirement, benefits etc... It is supposed to be a citizen service maybe pay them a stipend....

I own a restuarant which employs 10 people, I pay the government payroll taxes, sales taxes, alcohol taxes.... Missing a few but the gist of it is my restuarant makes gross 300k a year that makes me rich per your great liberal leanings does not take into account what I payout.... At what point am I rich please tell me that.

Again explain how any President like the evil Bush does this shit on their own they don't CONGRESS is complicit but blame Bush and Obama et al... Xray the housing industry was a big problem cause of the domino effect housing prices went down, housing constructing went down defaults went up and the housing service suffered! So yes Wall Street had it's part but look more closely instead of watching CNN and MSNBC and repeating that drivel....

[Loo for life]

Oldhead your mistaken belief is that that anyone has to turn in their Union card more firemen then not are conservative by nature.... What is wrong with wanting to keep more of the money you earn, give to causes you want, I for one would never tell you what you should do with your money and in the end what number is enough 25%, 30% 35% 50% of someone elses money????

You and I agree on politicians pocket lining problem! With it is all the tax breaks if there are any they should go to those who hire US Citizens within our countries borders..... We have so many hidden costs for doing business in this country such as enviromental regulations, NRLB edicts, Taxes....on and on!

[oldhead]

And I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what a "fair share" is either. You're right, many firemen tend to be conservative in nature, I am a registered Republican, have been my entire voting life, but I sure as hell don't toe the party line , it's idiotic, just like toeing the democratic line and tea party line is. I for one am COMPLETELY disgusted with how the republicans, egged on by the tea baggers, have manipulated our current economic situation and placed the blame square at the feet of unions. wtf. Greedy people doing greedy things while politicians snickered and looked the other way AND none of 'em are in jail, in fact they're all still employed and now have the audacity to tell the Europeans what they should do to get out of their mess. But it's unions that caused all this, if you are to believe John Boner and party, HH has said it himself, THAT'S why I'm suggesting he turn his union card in... :mad:

[oldhead]

Why does he say "Bayner"? It's BONER. Man, I would OWN that shit. I'd MAKE everyone call me Speaker BONER, my old lady, my kids, the mailman, my driver, the hot chick at the coffee shop, that is some funny shit. You are now speaking to Mr. BONER! Please speak directly to the BONER! Hahahaha. I suppose now he's making up for a lifetime of being called BONER...:p

[Greenshield]

WOOHOO someone bit the bait!!!!

tax cuts that where unfunded.
The most ridiculous statement I have ever read. The spending that occurred was unfunded. Your statement assumes that is costs money to not take it from you and that money you earn is the property of the Government. Yummy bait BTW try a sharper hook though.



Go Skins - Cowboys Suck!!!
I do agree 100% with this statement.

[Greenshield]

Oldhead, I do love you brother but the top 10% of earners pay over 70% of the taxes collected. 50% of tax consumers pay no taxes at all. Whom is paying their fair share? Secondly Warren Buffet fudged just a tad. As recent AP (not FAUX News) articles have demonstrated. He pays the corporate tax rate on his companies income. His personal income tax rate is at 35% however. I saw a comment about "everybody" wants to use services and "no one" wants to pay for them. At a Federal level 50% is more accurate and at local levels that varies. In DC we go into homes and help people everyday whom are tax consumers( more often than not) and have been for a long time. Other persons in the same city and many of us around the country (yes DC uses monies from outside the District) subsidize this with our taxes. Not only are you being paid to help said persons, but you are in fact helping pay for your servicing of them.

If a company like Exxon contributes Billions in tax revenue (as well as helping fund our retirements) gets money back from the Government it is called a subsidy. Why? If you get money back that is less than the amount paid and what debt you incur it is called a refund (even for those whom are net tax drains get "refunds")hmm. It is only a subsidy in the cases of companies like GE, Solyndra, GM, many investment banks and such. Where the net tax revenue dolled out exceeds the tax revenue realized in the end. I know Solyndra was a "loan" but it was given at rock bottom borrowing rates (which costs the taxpayers more than what they loaned) and the loan will never be paid back. Only laundered back into the campaign coffers of Obama and select few other polys.

As to the Union. To me it is what we unite with, on a business level, to ensure the plight, proper financing, and the rights of the individual against crooked politicians. There are functions that are proper for the local government to operate. Law enforcement, property, and life protection are ones I see as proper and best affected at that level. What I see occurring( purposefully by our media and the DNC)is the mixing of the disdain by many for the political class (top tier union heads for example), crooked politicians, and their tactics with the people whom are Union members. I am a Union member and am welcomed whole heartily at all Tea Party events I attend. It is no secret I am a Firefighter in the belly of corruption (DC)and a Union member.

One must understand it is hard to ask persons whom work everyday and have no retirement, insurance, and makes less than many of us to pay us more. I believe that I earn every cent I am paid, I also believe there are some at work whom do not. Does this make me greedy, evil, or hateful toward anyone? Being critical of some or one is not being critical of all collectively. We all know there are those whom will always be in the "bumper division", have mask problems, etc. They earn the same as the one whom does what they do not. Is that right?

In summation my brain is going to explode. My quasi-intellectual monologue must now give way to normal programming in my head. <beeeeeeeeeeeeppppp>

[Brooks]

"One must understand it is hard to ask persons whom work everyday and have no retirement, insurance, and makes less than many of us to pay us more."

A few facts, in case they get lost in the opinions:
Top marginal Federal personal income tax rate 2011: 35%
DC's top rate is 8.5%, and is at the high end of 'state' income taxes. These are marginal rates, you don't pay them on your first dollar, you pay them on your 500,001st dollar. In any case, 43.5% is a lot less than 50%. No one pays more than 35% in Federal Income Tax.

EVERYBODY who works pays some payroll tax. For almost everyone, that's 15.3% of their wages. Most low income people pay more in payroll tax than they do in income tax. The TOTAL federal & state tax rate across all incomes ranges from about 16% to 31% from the bottom quintile to the top quintile. [pdf source (http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2010.pdf)]

By and large, those families that pay no federal income tax pay none because they are either very poor, have a lot of children, or are living entirely on social security. I'm not sure how much they need to pay to placate the rightwingers who want to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Do we as a country pay too much in taxes? Not compared to almost every other OECD "developed" country. We pay 24% of all income to all levels of government. Only Mexico and Chile pay less. [wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_ GDP)]

More interestingly, the top 1% of earners earn about 20% of all income. You know what proportion of taxes they pay for? About 22%. Hardly an injustice.

[oldhead]

Green,
Good points, all of 'em. There's an interesting commentary by the Post on their editorial page blasting the city council about their tax hike for households making over $350,000.00 per year and you know what? The Post is right. This tax will affect about 6,000 households in the District (Post numbers) simply because they make more than the aforesaid amount. The Post correctly surmises that if the wealthy keep getting taxed, they're gonna move out, meanwhile, the city supposedly has an 89 mil windfall and the council wants to spend it on other shit. Jack Evans says city spending has gone UP 8% since Gray took office, and if that's true, why did Child and Family Protective Services just lay off 10 people? wtf. What's a fair tax rate? Who effen knows. What's a fair share? Who effen knows. As for all the deadbeats on welfare, sure there are some who are, but I know plenty of guys on the job now who grew up in households both in AND out of the city who were beneficiaries of welfare and they grew up to become productive, tax paying members of society. To me that's success. You'll NEVER get rid of deadbeats ANYWHERE even on this job. So what to do? Fuck if I know. Can we go back to talkin' about FIREMAN shit? I think I'm about to have a sinkable episode due to the pressure and the sugar and I might have to call 911. I'm goin' back to my daily routine of making fun of Speaker BONER's name because A) It's funny, and B) What other reason is there? and reading the newspaper everyday, having my daily stroke, and goin' about my bidness!

[Greenshield]

Brooks,

50% referred to the amount of taxpayers, not percentage of income, after tax credits are taken into account. True most pay payroll taxes, but make work pay and other tax credits (which often are more than many pay in the first place) make those taxes paid a net wash or slightly more to the "taxpayer". i.e. one makes 38,000 a year pays "x" amount in payroll and income tax. Same person receives "x" back or "x +" back in tax credits and you see where 50% not paying comes from. What actually occurs is slowly, over time, more and more earners become subsidized and dependent on government, thus reliable voters. Person "A", by virtue of paying taxes, receives money from person "B". Person "B" owes money to person "A" and person "A" owes what to person "B" exactly? Whom is squeezing blood from whom or what in this ACTUAL scenario? The top 10% of earners pay around 70% of taxes collected on money THEY earned. Why is that your money? Again, where is the fair share? No matter how you spin it Brooks, taxing the wealthy even more and creating class warfare does nothing but depress Liberty, the economy, and eventually the living standards of all.

BTW. To all of the Buffets, Turners, and soros's. You can pay as much money as you like over the amount asked for by the Federal and local Governments. Lead by example and voluntarily surrender more of your income.

One can not create more pie by cutting it into smaller pieces. You only expand, at the price of Liberty, the number receiving a piece regardless of their effort to get it. Eventually all get the same little piece, incentive to succeed is gone, and society collapses. To have true Liberty, greater prosperity and wealth, the pie must become bigger not divided smaller.

[oldhead]

Hey, did you guys know the Speaker of the House's name is BONER? Get it, BONER?? Hahahahahaha

[tillerdude]

Hey Old What if his first name was Harry. or nic name Shorty???:D

[Brooks]

Green -

I thought you were saying high earners paid 50% in tax. Mea Culpa.

You are incorrect about 50% of the taxpayers not paying tax. As shown in the link provided, the total tax burden is as stated. The bottom 20% of earners pay 16% in total taxes, including tax credits. They pay ~4% federal and ~12% state and local. As a group, they earn about 3.5% of the total income earned in the US, and pay about 3.6% of the total Federal taxes paid to the US. They are not skating by.

Where are the jobs that these rich people were going to create, due to the Bush tax cuts? Overseas? Companies aren't hiring because there's no demand for their products. There's no demand for their products because there's so many people out of work.

Paying taxes doesn't stifle liberty. Not being able to quit your job because you can't buy health insurance stifles liberty.

You presuppose that all these rich people have earned their money. Have you ever heard of a rentier? Rent-seeking? Someone who profits, not from industry, innovation, or hard work, but because they can manipulate the system. These people are a parasite on our economy, and many of them are in the top brackets. Most of the FIRE industry profits are from captured rent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRE_economy

What's a fair share? I don't know. Companies don't have to pay taxes on their expenses, only their profits. Maybe we should do that for people. A solid tax on any money, from any source, on any income over a given amount. We'll use the median income as a measure of average expenses. How would that look?

As for decreased standard of living? Any measures of standard of living are inherently subjective, but they usually include quantitative measures about health, income, etc. According to The Economist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_Index) there are 12 countries in the world with a higher quality of life than the US. All but Singapore pay more in taxes than we do, sometimes significantly more. If Sweden and Denmark can pay almost twice what we pay, and still have a better quality of life, it doesn't say much for your idea that high taxes stifle quality of life.

We can't make a pie bigger by cutting it into smaller pieces, we can however put more people, resources, and capital to work by taxing them appropriately. In a low tax environment, people 'collect' things. In a high tax environment, they must be put to good use. You've heard of the firefighting term "Taxpayer"?

From fdnewyork.com: "There is no legal description of the term taxpayer as used in this department. It's meaning is derived from the practice of real estate investors who, while holding parcels of land for speculation, constructed cheap buildings that could house multiple tenants. The rent collected would be used to pay the taxes on the land. "

If the taxes are higher, the speculator would have to build more - putting more people to work. If the taxes are lower, the speculator merely paves it, and hires some company to charge for parking, as they've done in the 6th Battalion for so long.

We have a low tax environment, compared to our own historical rates, and rates around the world. The rich are not investing in productive activity, they are 'collecting' things: farmland (http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/08/retirement/betting_the_farm.fortune/index.htm), water rights (http://seekingalpha.com/article/24410-t-boone-pickens-invests-in-water-should-you), patent trolling (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11860819/ns/business-us_business/t/patent-trolling-firms-sue-their-way-profits/), and the like.

Finally, there's no evidence that low taxes encourage the economy. Only ideology. "we increased tax rates on the rich in 1993 and the economy created more than twenty-two million jobs; we cut them in 2001 and the economy created fewer than seven million jobs. " [source (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/julyaugust_2011/editors_note/playing_chicken_with_history030506.php)]

Poor people pay taxes, some taxes might actually *benefit* the economy, and total tax burden and quality of life are apparently unrelated. What else is there?

Show us the evidence that cutting taxes on the rich will improve the economy, reduce unemployment, and foster "true Liberty".

[Greenshield]

With the low tax rates must come a cut in spending. This hasn't occurred. In fact just the opposite has, and with it the trends in employment, poverty, food stamps, etc have increased almost lock step with spending. Liberty, Brooks, is you making your destiny with as little coercion as possible. Taking money from me to "put to good use" is as opposite of Liberty as it gets. What I do with my money is my concern. When it becomes to concern of others via government I lose that control i.e. Liberty. Government can't give to one what it doesn't first take from another. To give "health care" to one to create liberty means you rob it from another. Not giving health care to someone is very different from preventing one from having it.

As to taxes. the exact number is just above 49% for those that either are zero liability or gain from taxes via credits of different sorts. AS to the jobs. Companies will not hire when the rules are always changing. There must be a steady and predictable political environment. How free are these awesome socialist utopias you mention? How long could they resist an invasion if the US did not spend so much on defense? As long as the spending is as high as it is, the country will spiral.


In summation, if I take less of your money you are more free. No chart required to prove that. Address the spending and things will improve. WHen gauging quality of life, one must look at whom is judging, what the criteria are, and how relevant said criteria are to you. People will save and accumulate physical goods until they feel secure to spend again, rich, poor, and in between.

Oldhead...
This is not an attack on children whom grew up and succeeded despite welfare, only the process in which more and more are exposed to and their horrible existence due to the cycle.

[HOOKMAN]

Just finished doing an internal review of this thread and upon completion of review, I've determined this 15 page thread went off course around page 7. After page 7, this "Our Chief" thread, turned into a brutal barrage of verbal attacks against those who declared their political stance as Democrats, Republicans and Tea Baggers.....Though each has his own opinion of their political views, I got lost in the political rhetoric until Oldhead started talking about Boners....This is a subject I know too much about and though temporarily excited, the political talk erupted again and so I lost interest. I STILL LIKE BONERS THAT...my own that is...:)

With that said, I hope to not ruin this political dialogue by going back to the original thread about "Our Chief", however, I've come upon some tidbits that might be of interest to those who our concerned about safety. As I've said in 3 different posts, it was Dennis Rubin and his then Assistant Chief of Services Al Jeffrey that misappropiated around $2milllion which was allocated for the NFPA compliant uniforms. It was Chief Douchebag along with his AFC/Services (whom most think is a legend:rolleyes::rolleyes:) that was responsible for purchasing the NFPA compliant uniforms and FAILED to do so. Rubin did purchase some shirts, however, they didn't fit, didn't match and wasn't compliant.......on top of the old patch that he had his hand in the pockets of those who made it.....

What I did find out, is the proper NFPA compliant shirts and pants were recently purchased for those that were concerned....When they arrive I have no idea. Just thought I'd pass this along and break up the political debate....

[DCFDRescue2]

Just finished doing an internal review of this thread and upon completion of review, I've determined this 15 page thread went off course around page 7. After page 7, this "Our Chief" thread, turned into a brutal barrage of verbal attacks against those who declared their political stance as Democrats, Republicans and Tea Baggers.....Though each has his own opinion of their political views, I got lost in the political rhetoric until Oldhead started talking about Boners....This is a subject I know too much about and though temporarily excited, the political talk erupted again and so I lost interest. I STILL LIKE BONERS THAT...my own that is...:)

With that said, I hope to not ruin this political dialogue by going back to the original thread about "Our Chief", however, I've come upon some tidbits that might be of interest to those who our concerned about safety. As I've said in 3 different posts, it was Dennis Rubin and his then Assistant Chief of Services Al Jeffrey that misappropiated around $2milllion which was allocated for the NFPA compliant uniforms. It was Chief Douchebag along with his AFC/Services (whom most think is a legend:rolleyes::rolleyes:) that was responsible for purchasing the NFPA compliant uniforms and FAILED to do so. Rubin did purchase some shirts, however, they didn't fit, didn't match and wasn't compliant.......on top of the old patch that he had his hand in the pockets of those who made it.....

What I did find out, is the proper NFPA compliant shirts and pants were recently purchased for those that were concerned....When they arrive I have no idea. Just thought I'd pass this along and break up the political debate....

If you want to talk about our chief, please post in The Politics Thread.:D

[DCFD-Gumby]

The most ridiculous statement I have ever read. The spending that occurred was unfunded. Your statement assumes that is costs money to not take it from you and that money you earn is the property of the Government. Yummy bait BTW try a sharper hook though.

My bad, for those who need actual clarification.... The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 was unfunded. For the record a tax cut should be paid for by an equal spending cut so I said it right you just could not wrap your brain around missing text. Republicans did not do that. There is that better for you. Regardless how you spin it we can not afford two wars and personal tax breaks for the rich. Why do I have to pay up to 35% for working a real job but if my income is earned from dividends while sipping champagne it is capped at 15%?

Of course if I were rich I would say fuck all y'all and quit hating.

[DCFD-Gumby]

What was the topic of this thread again?

[pragmatist]

As an employee of DCFD and a business owner of 20 employees I pay an insane amount of taxes. My unemployment tax alone has gone up more than 900% over the last 4 years without a single claim. If I didnt have quality employees who I care about a great deal including their families and well being, I would really second guess putting in the amount of effort I do for the amount of tax I have to pay. Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier just to be lazy. We really could use two more employees to do odds and ends and give help to crews that need it. Plain and simple I would if I could. Getting a break on the 300k in business taxes I pay a year would go a long way. Would I pad my pocket a little. Sure a little for a rainy day, but I would hire more and probably at the end of the day pay close to the same in taxes with an additional 2-3 employees. As of now, my hands are tied and cant hire unless it comes directly from my pay. Its not rocket science.

[Greenshield]

My bad, for those who need actual clarification.... The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 was unfunded. For the record a tax cut should be paid for by an equal spending cut so I said it right you just could not wrap your brain around missing text. Republicans did not do that. There is that better for you. Regardless how you spin it we can not afford two wars and personal tax breaks for the rich. Why do I have to pay up to 35% for working a real job but if my income is earned from dividends while sipping champagne it is capped at 15%?

Of course if I were rich I would say fuck all y'all and quit hating.

I agree with you on the wars (that are still going on and 2 more have been added). You can't fund a tax break or cut. As this is money that the Government has not received. You must fund Tax Credits however, for they are monies that the Government sends back to persons or erases from the money they pay. I don't believe you can comprehend that the statement of unfunded tax breaks is ridiculous just on it's face. Again, the spending requires funding (wars etc.) not the act of not taking as much money from persons. Do you understand that premise? To say tax cuts must be funded is saying that your money that they haven't taken yet is no t your money, but the governments. For, by your assertion, they must make up in funds for funds they are allowing you to keep. Sounds pretty ridiculous, correct? How exactly does a government go about funding funds they do not receive? TO put it in your terms (and the progressive nomenclature) How precisely do you fund a tax cut? Do not injure your brain trying to wrap it around that question. PAN DOWN


































Answer: You "fund" it by not spending money you do not have and will not receive.

[HookHomo]

The top 1% income earners in this country(who happen to be, almost all small business owners) pay 40% of the personal income tax. The top 20% of income earners pay almost 100% of the income taxes in this country. That means 80% of the population pays almost NO income taxes and 50% pay ZERO income tax.
Does this sound fair to you??
How about the fact that the rich and business owners earn there money by risking life savings to start there business. Or the fact that they pay almost 100% of the taxes to support more than 21 million government employees.
The government does not produce anything, the government takes in money and spends it (very poorly)
Basically Obama is really saying, everyone who risks there life savings. Gives up the security of a five day a week, 9 to 5 job with a nice pension to start a business will have their earnings confiscated and redistributed.
I'm sure you LIBERAL cry babies (old head, if your a republican I'm an astronaut) thinks there is nothing wrong with this.
Xray, you need to wake up and stop watching or reading liberal BS! which reminds me. What is the difference between a Conservative and a liberal??? A Conservative hates it when you lie to them. A liberal hates it when you tell them the truth.:eek:

[HOOKMAN]

Just when this thread couldn't get more boring and mundane, HookHomo has to add more to the monotony of an already worthless thread....why can't we go back to Oldhead and his remarks about boners...I'm sure we could have a field day discussion about that...

[HookHomo]

Sorry Hook, had to get serious there for a minute.:D

Amen Greenshield! "LIVE FREE OR DIE"

Brooks, you can apologize for your LIBERAL ignorance any time now!:eek:

pragmatist, Hang in there. This socialist president will be gone soon, but not soon enough!:mad:

[HOOKMAN]

Sorry....I just can't relate to all this....actually I can, but its above my mentality level and quite frankly, it overloads my already small brain to try and understand it.....Hopefully a thread about vagina, balls and midgets will post soon....:D

[pragmatist]

If I did not have my goverment job, I am confident that I would more than likely not run my business. It is a sucessful, fiscal conservative business, however with the state of the economy and amount of taxes I pay, sleeping at night would be tough. I have saved a good bit of money for that rainy day, but it only takes one really bad day. Although maybe I could get one of those bailouts. Its become very tough on small business owners who like hook said are the ones putting up their own money to get to where they are to see it all taken away. No wonder unemployment is where it is.

[Brooks]

HookHomo, are you trying to be like Rove and "create our own reality"? Because your figures and assertions are wrong. You are some combination of an idiot, misinformed, or a liar.


The top 1% income earners in this country(who happen to be, almost all small business owners) pay 40% of the personal income tax.
You are off by almost 100%. Top 1% pay 22.1% of TOTAL federal taxes. They also earn 20.4% of TOTAL income. Not a bad deal, if you can get it. Here's a citation (http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2010.pdf) -- since you are so bad with numbers, I'm going to assume, in the future, that any un-cited figures you give are made up.

It's just one line, but you still manage to get two falsehoods in there. The average small business owner makes about $100,000 (http://smallbiztrends.com/2010/11/how-much-money-do-small-business-owners-make.html) a year, which puts them in the top 10%, not the top 1%. Now, logically, that doesn't mean, necessarily that the top 1% *isn't* SBO's, but it makes it doubtful - especially since, as owners, they can set their own salary, and keep money, untaxed, in their business. Hell, most of the families on the job are in the top 10% ($100,000). To get into the top 1% is a little harder ($1.4M). If they're taking $1.4M out of their business every year, it's probably not that small.

The top 20% of income earners pay almost 100% of the income taxes in this country. That means 80% of the population pays almost NO income taxes and 50% pay ZERO income tax. Does this sound fair to you??

The 80% percentile makes about $66,000 (link above). You work with people who make that much money. Ask them if they pay Federal Income Tax. The bottom 80% of taxpayers pays 43% of total federal taxes on 41.1% of total national income. Sounds Fair to me.

How about the fact that the rich and business owners earn there money by risking life savings to start there business. Or the fact that they pay almost 100% of the taxes to support more than 21 million government employees.
The government does not produce anything, the government takes in money and spends it (very poorly)

A lot of business owners risk other people's money, including investors, bank loans, government grants, and, often, daddy's (or grand-daddy's) money. If you're connected, you can get money. There may be 21M state, local, and federal government employees, but those people are paid for by all levels of government. As I've shown, poor people pay taxes, too; roughly in proportion to the amount of money they make. As for government, it doesn't just burn money. You yourself, assuming you're a fireman, have earned some of that money? Did you bring value to the public? I don't know. I know that companies still want to locate in this country, in part due to: an educated workforce (we are still one of the most productive countries, man-for-man), the rule of law, a good transportation network, and good public safety. These are things largely provided by government.

Basically Obama is really saying, everyone who risks there life savings. Gives up the security of a five day a week, 9 to 5 job with a nice pension to start a business will have their earnings confiscated and redistributed.
As a business owner, you can keep most of your income in the company, and, at worst, pay corporate tax rates on profits. Or pay them to yourself as dividends, and pay dividend rates on them. Remember, Republicans are only fiscally conservative when a Democrat is in the White House.

I'm sure you LIBERAL cry babies (old head, if your a republican I'm an astronaut) thinks there is nothing wrong with this.
Xray, you need to wake up and stop watching or reading liberal BS! which reminds me. What is the difference between a Conservative and a liberal??? A Conservative hates it when you lie to them. A liberal hates it when you tell them the truth.:eek:
It seems to me that the conservatives are the one's crying about taxes. As for lies, and truth, you better start backing your shit up. I've pointed out your lies. Prove me wrong. Get some citations, because statements by a random anonymous dude on the internet aren't even dust in the wind.

As for using 'liberal' as a pejorative, go ahead. I'm fine with being a liberal. It was liberals who founded this country, it was liberals who gave us universal literacy, it was liberals who freed the slaves, it was liberals who gave us universal suffrage, it was liberals who ensured freedom of speech, it was (in fact) liberals who enshrined our right to keep and bear arms, it is liberals, today who fight to keep information free, it is liberals, today, who fight to keep the government from spying on us, it is liberals today, who fight to keep the government from having the power to abduct and torture us. By no means is modern 'liberalism' perfect -- but compared to conservatism, it's damn near Shangri-La.

[HOOKMAN]

Brooks, you beat me to it, thanks for clearing that up for me:D

[Brooks]

If I did not have my goverment job, I am confident that I would more than likely not run my business.

Now just think how many more businesses there'd be if more potential small-business owners had more security. What if they all knew that, if they got sick, they wouldn't go bankrupt?

What if you didn't have to compete (depending on industry) with huge corporations that are constantly subsidized by government? What if you didn't have to comply with regulations that favor the corporations that have enough money to buy their own legislation? What if we didn't have 9% unemployment, and more people could afford your product (assuming you're not catering to the top 0.1%). What if your clientele didn't spend $3 Trillion a year on fuel and fuel security (OK, energy is always going to cost something, but I'd rather see it paying the salaries of engineers and local installers than sheiks and oil barons. At least then paying for energy would be putting people to work, and likely putting people to work locally). 'Conservatives' in this country favor corporate control of regulation, bailouts for banks, subsidies for agribusiness, privatization of public resources, and of course, anything and everything to do with the fossil fuel business.

Conversely, what if you couldn't find workers who could read or do simple math? What if you had to pay a toll everytime you drove to a job? We have a private - for profit transportation network, the rail lines. That's how 'conservatives' would like our road network to be. What if you had to pay a bribe officials to get every job your company ever got? What if you couldn't enforce the contracts you did get? Liberals didn't provide all of these things, but government enforces them. Not all government is bad, and taxes pay for government.

And the US pays less in taxes than almost every other 'first world' country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_ GDP click twice on the arrows in the OECD column.

[footsoldier]

my dogs have created more "shovel ready" jobs than obama

[HookHomo]

Congratulations Brooks. You are Obviously a product of the public education system, and have fallen in lock step with there Liberal Ideology!
Like Greenshield said,"If I take less of your money you are more free, no chart required to prove that".
Sorry Mr. LIB, but the Liberal name you are sooooo proud of was highjacked a long time ago by far left wing extremist. You know, the people who protest to save cop killers from execution, but have no problem killing an innocent unborn fully developed child. Yea those people!! (I can go on and on but I won't)
Since you are sooo proud to be a LIBERAL, I assume you think it's OK for the government to tell you what you can and can't eat, what you can and can"t drive, what type of light bulb you can and can't use, whether or not you can protect yourself and your family with a firearm, or basically protect yourself from yourself, because that is what liberals are about today! More government and more control. In other words Socialism!!.
The government in this country has over stepped it's boundaries, and needs to be beat back into submission!
If you want to be like Europe, then by all means go move there. I'll buy you a one way ticket today!:D

[Brooks]

Hookhomo: it's not clear if you are the product of any education system whatsoever.

You guys who equate a few percent of your taxes for freedom are foolish. Those of you who collect a check from the government, and really believe that paying taxes is an infringement on your freedoms, are hypocrites.

The Patriot act took some of your freedoms. Citizen's United allowed your voice to be drowned out by those with more money. The list goes on, erosions of our freedoms, most supported by both Democrats and Conservative authoritarians and corporate patsies. These are real issues affecting your freedom - not whether or not people who make $1 million a year pay 32% or 35% in federal income tax.

I don't think the government should tell me what kind of light bulbs to use, but I'd rather they did that then decided who I can and can't marry, or what medical services women can get. I'd like to have the option to join a union, which I do - conservatives are against that, too. I'd like to be able to choose healthcare providers, instead of my employer. Again - that's the conservatives for you.

But, yeah, the democrats trying to outlaw incandescent lights (which is stupid) doesn't make them the stasi.

I don't support everything the Democrats do, nor do I support the 'Far Left'. I'm not, in the purest sense, a socialist. However, there are social programs I support, and I believe in a social democracy - that is I believe that a democratic government should do what it can to improve the quality of life for *all* of it's citizens. I don't think that government should compete for lowest price. I think government should compete for best service for a reasonable price. I've shown several times, that, compared to the rest of the developed world, the price of our government is *reasonable*. I'd spend less on warfare, and more on research, but that's me, a liberal.

This is the DCFD thread. The DCFD spends about $325 per person it protects. Yes, the daytime population, blah blah, but so does every other city in the country. We are a great department. We are a premium service. We could be much cheaper. The idea that taxes equal a infringement on freedom implies that we are spending too much on the DCFD. (Or does that idea only apply to services for *those* people?) New York City only spends about $160. LA only spends about $140. Charlotte, closer in size, only spends $135. Indianapolis only $170. [source (http://www.capecog.com/capecog/2009/10/the-per-capita-fire-department-spending-champion-barnstable-688.html)] There *could* be a much cheaper fire department protecting DC. That would be the conservative way.

[Brooks]

Also, I'll be at work tomorrow, E16. Bring my ticket to Amsterdam.

[DCFDRescue2]

This is the DCFD thread. The DCFD spends about $325 per person it protects. Yes, the daytime population, blah blah, but so does every other city in the country. We are a great department. We are a premium service. We could be much cheaper. The idea that taxes equal a infringement on freedom implies that we are spending too much on the DCFD. (Or does that idea only apply to services for *those* people?) New York City only spends about $160. LA only spends about $140. Charlotte, closer in size, only spends $135. Indianapolis only $170. [source (http://www.capecog.com/capecog/2009/10/the-per-capita-fire-department-spending-champion-barnstable-688.html)] There *could* be a much cheaper fire department protecting DC. That would be the conservative way.

The per capita income (2009) according to the US Census Bureau:

LA- $26983
New York City- $30634
Indianapolis- $ 24044
Charlotte- $24547

Washington DC- $40846

[Brooks]

The per capita income (2009) according to the US Census Bureau:

LA- $26983
New York City- $30634
Indianapolis- $ 24044
Charlotte- $24547

Washington DC- $40846

True facts. Normalizing those cities by their per capita income
LA 0.51%
NYC 0.52%
Indy 0.71%
DC 0.80%

I'm not arguing that DC should have a cheaper FD. I'm saying that DC is willing to spend $325 per capita, and should get the best FD possible with that. The conservative argument seems to be that the extra 0.09% we spend over Indy or the 0.29% more than LA is an affront to the Freedom of Washingtonians.

The conservative mindset leads to a 'race to the bottom' as jurisdictions compete with each other to cut taxes (and the services they provide).

[HookHomo]

Brooks, you can voluntarily pay more taxes since you think what we pay is a,"few percent". I'm sure the IRS and Obama would greatly appreciate it.
In the words of Ronald Reagan;"Government exist to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves". I could not have said it any better!

When you find a city fire department that isn't funded by government, let me know. I'll gladly work there!. Until that day, I'll work for DCFD and let my government funded union dues go to the liberal democratic party that believes the more government the better.

As for the gay marriage thing.(I assume that is what you were referring to)If a pickle smoker wants to marry another pickle smoker; so be it. But don't force me to accept it, don't flaunt it and act as though it's normal. The so called "tolerant liberals" can't do that. They have to force the issue and protest the issue, and get married at the state capitals, etc. Before you know it, they will be protesting to marry 10 year old boys. Where does it stop!
For example "Don't ask don't tell". It was working fine, but that wasn't good enough, they(the liberals) had to push the issue. Now watch how many problems arise from it.
That will be Obama s legacy; He let gays in the military! yea!! What a great legacy. (What a douche bag)

If you give up your citizenship and promise never to return, I'll be at 16 Engine with ticket in hand, first thing in the morning!:D

[HookHomo]

That goes for the rest of you Obama supporting socialist liberals! Free one way ticket to anywhere but here!:D

[DCFDRescue2]

As for the gay marriage thing.(I assume that is what you were referring to)If a pickle smoker wants to marry another pickle smoker; so be it. But don't force me to accept it, don't flaunt it and act as though it's normal. The so called "tolerant liberals" can't do that. They have to force the issue and protest the issue, and get married at the state capitals, etc. Before you know it, they will be protesting to marry 10 year old boys. Where does it stop!



Why should the government regulate who smokes who's pickle? If somebody wants to get married, just pay the fee for the license and get on with it. Let your church help you decide what is morally right and wrong. Unless of course you are for more government to help legislate morality.

FWIW, I am mostly in agreement with the the Tea Party and am a Herman Cain fan.

[Flustered]

Brooks,
Please stop using Wikipedia as a source for info. Middle schools dont even allow it as a "reliable " resource, since anyone can make changes to a page.

[Brooks]

Flustered: Middle schools gave higher submission standards than TWD. For example, in middle school, you can't turn in your homework anonymously.

[Flustered]

:rolleyes:I understand that but if you want people to believe your stats use reliable sources. I know you do your research but Wikipedia once stated that Rosa Parks was a white male. Not reliable at all.

[xray]

Brooks, you can voluntarily pay more taxes since you think what we pay is a,"few percent". I'm sure the IRS and Obama would greatly appreciate it.
In the words of Ronald Reagan;"Government exist to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves". I could not have said it any better!

When you find a city fire department that isn't funded by government, let me know. I'll gladly work there!. Until that day, I'll work for DCFD and let my government funded union dues go to the liberal democratic party that believes the more government the better.

As for the gay marriage thing.(I assume that is what you were referring to)If a pickle smoker wants to marry another pickle smoker; so be it. But don't force me to accept it, don't flaunt it and act as though it's normal. The so called "tolerant liberals" can't do that. They have to force the issue and protest the issue, and get married at the state capitals, etc. Before you know it, they will be protesting to marry 10 year old boys. Where does it stop!
For example "Don't ask don't tell". It was working fine, but that wasn't good enough, they(the liberals) had to push the issue. Now watch how many problems arise from it.
That will be Obama s legacy; He let gays in the military! yea!! What a great legacy. (What a douche bag)

If you give up your citizenship and promise never to return, I'll be at 16 Engine with ticket in hand, first thing in the morning!:D

Why do you talk so much and not kno sh@t, clinton let gays in the military legally (hence dont ask dont tell). News flash they (gays) have always been there!. No one let them in, they joined just like everyone else. I really think ur a '' Timothy McVey" in training really no bull. And I swore to protect the US against foreign and domestic terrorist, still live by that creed. So tread lightly my friend or foe?
X man is out

[xray]

Why should the government regulate who smokes who's pickle? If somebody wants to get married, just pay the fee for the license and get on with it. Let your church help you decide what is morally right and wrong. Unless of course you are for more government to help legislate morality.

FWIW, I am mostly in agreement with the the Tea Party and am a Herman Cain fan.

Yeah but he Herman Cain would never get the nod from your beloved tea party, Like I told greensheild thats the party of non-inclusion ( repub's). They dont even take him serious at the debates, yeah I watch fox news to see the results in the mornin after. No matter how intelligent he responds to questions, they (fox news) still undermined him in favor of acts like Michelle Bachman. Who is crazy as bat sh@t. I wish she was the front runner or even sarah palin, for sure Obama would get four more years.